What is your opinion of Jesus?

[Altfish]

I'm curious on why people don't believe in Jesus?

He may have existed, he might not have existed, but if he did exist, he wasn't the son of god. IMHO.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

OK, but the usual concept of hell has been upturned by a careful study of the Bible. I didn't believe in torture in hell before I believed in God and now that I do believe in God, I learned from my Bible study that the traditional concept of fire and brimstone in a place called hell does not exist anyway.

I did something similar as a Christian. I also rejected hell theology but took it further than you. I eliminated all of the supernaturalism by the same process including devils and sin, but also the idea of an afterlife and a god, and returned to atheism. If there's an afterlife or a god, I'm happy to wait to learn that.

We're all free to accept or reject as much or as little of the dogma as seems appropriate to us.

“Isaiah 53 is a classic chapter portraying the life, death, and resurrection of Messiah. He would be despised by many (53:3), He would give his life for us and take our sins upon Himself (53:7), He would suffer (53:10) and be resurrected (53:10-12). Many Jewish people, when reading Isaiah 53 for the first time, have thought that these words must be from the New Testament, since they paint such a clear portrait of Yeshua. It is astonishing that these verses are in fact from the Hebrew Bible; they were written by Isaiah over 700 years before Yeshua was born!”

Here's a nice example of taking a closer look at scripture and then rejecting dogma. The following is from Isaiah 53. Nowhere does it say any of that except that this figure would suffer. These words don't say that the messiah gave his life; it was taken from him. Nowhere does it say that this death absolved mankind of sin or even that that was a thing that needed doing or could be done. And there is no mention of resurrection. Yet this author claims otherwise and then concludes that this is a clear depiction of Jesus. Not to me:

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Nevertheless, ALL the first followers and believers in Jesus Christ as the prophesied Messiah were Jewish.

Yes, the first followers of Jesus were Jews - they recognized Jesus as the Messiah but they continued to observe the Jewish Law. After Jesus' death they were probably disappointed because their Messiah candidate failed...

First Christian writings were by Paul and Gentile Christians. There are no eyewitness accounts. Nothing contemporary from Jerusalem or Galilee.

 

[Firenze]

That is not the Gospel message of the scriptures.

Of course it is. John 3:16 gives half the message. 3:18 gives the rest. It seems quite disingenuous that Christians will ALWAYS quote the first, but NEVER the latter.....

 

[cataway]

I'm curious on why people don't believe in Jesus?

i have found different ones that have the thought that Jesus is a servant. then when Jesus does not give them what they want then he is not a good servant , unworthy and not real impotent if Jesus is not going to give/do what they want.

 

[Firenze]

I agree, there’s no Messiah without the OT. Yes, the Jewish scribes wrote the OT books. That doesn’t mean some, even many Jewish religious leaders missed realizing Jesus Christ fulfilled prophecy. At the time Jesus lived many Jews were looking for a Messiah/political leader to deliver them from the tyranny of the Roman Empire and restore the nation of Israel… though maybe that wasn’t God’s plan or timing, at that point. Nevertheless, ALL the first followers and believers in Jesus Christ as the prophesied Messiah were Jewish.

“Isaiah 53 is a classic chapter portraying the life, death, and resurrection of Messiah. He would be despised by many (53:3), He would give his life for us and take our sins upon Himself (53:7), He would suffer (53:10) and be resurrected (53:10-12). Many Jewish people, when reading Isaiah 53 for the first time, have thought that these words must be from the New Testament, since they paint such a clear portrait of Yeshua. It is astonishing that these verses are in fact from the Hebrew Bible; they were written by Isaiah over 700 years before Yeshua was born!”

Fulfilled Prophecy as an Evangelistic Tool

God uses many ways to draw people to Himself through His Holy Spirit – and one of these ways is fulfilled prophecy. There are many prophecies in the...

www.chosenpeople.com

Is 53 is in 4 parts. Scholars have long recognized that the 1st 3 are clearly about Israel. It's only the NT authors that want to pretend that all of a sudden, the 4th part is about the Messiah. Again, the Jewish experts disagree. Further, its the fraud of Is 7:14 that most loudly condemns the NT and its pretense that this is even about a virgin birth, much less about the Messiah. And ALL the first followers were Messianic Jews - desperate for the Messiah to show up. It was so bad that in the times before and after Jesus, you couldn't turn a corner in Jerusalem without bumping into a Messiah claimant. These Jews knew the actual attributes of the Messiah - but chose to lie about them instead. Inventing their own 'prophesies' like the spurious Is 7:14 and squeezing Jesus into them long after his death. Ya know, my old bible from the 50's tried to claim that Jesus fulfilled the 'prophesy' of being from 'Nazareth' - by citing a verse from Micah about 'Nazarites'. But here, decades later, they have removed that citation. Why? Perhaps they had a moment of conscience and opted to correct such an obvious error. Or perhaps they just tired of having bible scholars point out that it was NOT a prophesy, NOT Messianic, and not even a very good lie.

Look, I get it. No facts are going to change the mind of anyone that has been duped for most of their lives, especially if they are slaves to a lust for the promise of eternal life. I post for those with open minds and a sincere desire to know the bible. So, I'll keep on speaking Truth, and you can keep taking comfort in the apologetics, like the far fetched claim that the Jews who wrote the prophesies of the Messiah were somehow too stupid to recognize him. Ay caramba..... I don't know about you, but if I wanted to know what Fahrenheit 451 was about, I wouldn't seek out Gore Vidal - when I could have simply asked Vonnegut.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

First Christian writings were by Paul and Gentile Christians. There are no eyewitness accounts. Nothing contemporary from Jerusalem or Galilee.

Note that

Most modern scholars hold that it was written anonymously[8] in the last quarter of the first century by a male Jew who stood on the margin between traditional and nontraditional Jewish values and who was familiar with technical legal aspects of scripture being debated in his time. [source]​

 

[Balthazzar]

He's alright I guess, a stand-up guy, willing to take a loss for his team.

 

[Ajax]

Of course it is. John 3:16 gives half the message. 3:18 gives the rest. It seems quite disingenuous that Christians will ALWAYS quote the first, but NEVER the latter.....

It is puzzling why someone (with a brain that was given supposedly by God) will be condemned, if he/she didn't believe in Jesus. It is a blatant attempt to blackmail people, especially the uneducated ones who were the vast majority at the time. And the author of John has the audacity to call evil the non believers.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Jesus is always a problem to most people the devil wants us to hate him and join the him who I call Satan or Lucifer. He wants to be God. But my god wants to love you and help you threw your journey in life he wants you to download the KJV app and read Proverbs chapter one I'm not a god so I can't do what he can. But the devil already has what he wants your unbelief and your hatred and judgement that's what the devil wants and then after you die he wants your soul because he believes that will give him the power to destroy his creator even though it won't you can't destroy what made you we could kill our own mother's would we? Some people have there's more to this session but how do you feel on my response

It's hard for me to see statements like that as much more than an excuse for laziness. "He disagrees with me because of the devil! I don't need to try harder or come up with better arguments - what I'm doing is fine! My failures are the devil's fault, not mine."

 

[Laniakea]

Stories written about eyewitnesses is not evidence. Anyone can write a story, but that doesn't mean it is a true story.

I'm still waiting for anyone to prove those people to be liars.

 

[Laniakea]

No, that is not true. I know many atheists who never hate or judge. They are loving and caring.
It seems to me that it is the Christians who hate and judge.

Just like a loving parent who cares to guide their child to be a law-abiding citizen,
compared to the parent who doesn't "judge", but let's their child do whatever they want, go where they want, say what they want, and think there is no right or wrong, and believe that "anything goes", and ends up in prison eventually.

Sometimes judgement is needed. "Anything goes" doesn't work out so well, for children OR for society in general.

 

[Laniakea]

The difference is that walking of a cliff is demonstrably bad for you.
Nobody has to take that on "faith".

Unless someone thinks they're immune to gravity. After all, we're taught now that we can do anything at all if we think we can. No judging!

 

[Laniakea]

It's just another claim that these number in the thousands.

And also, off course, even if we accept that there were thousands, that still doesn't make it true.
There are thousands of claimed alien abductees. Doesn't mean diddly squat.

You seem to attempt to making an argument from popularity.
100% of people can believe something and still be wrong about it.

If men can become women and become pregnant, and even identify as 6 years old when they're 50, and society must accept it or be labeled as a hater, then why couldn't Jesus have risen from the dead if there were thousands of eyewitnesses saw him and interacted with Him after first seeing him killed?

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm curious on, why people don't believe Jesus.

I don't think it is because of the teachings of Jesus. His teachings are very good.
I think it is because of the Bible and all that is claimed about Jesus, what Jesus allegedly said and did.

 

[Trailblazer]

The criteria for Messiah are too many and too harsh. That's why the Jewish people are still waiting for one, who will never come.

Many of those verses you listed have been misinterpreted by the Jewish people.
That's why the Jewish people are still waiting for a messiah they imagine who will never come and live up to what they believe those verses mean.

There will never be universal worldwide acceptance of the Jewish God and the Jewish religion, and there are no verses that say that will happen.
None of the cited verses say that there will be universal worldwide acceptance of the Jewish God and the Jewish religion.

 

[Laniakea]

I don't think it is because of the teachings of Jesus. His teachings are very good.
I think it is because of the Bible and all that is claimed about Jesus, what Jesus allegedly said and did.

Where do you get that the teachings of Jesus are very good if you don't believe what the Bible says about Him and what He taught?

 

[Ajax]

Many of those verses you listed have been misinterpreted by the Jewish people.

In my opinion, as the Messiah is a Jewish case and hypothesis, they are the best to interpret the requirements. We have seen how badly the gospel authors have misinterpreted "prophecies".
Anyway, for many of the criteria and especially for Zechariah 8:23 there can be no misinterpretation.

 

[Trailblazer]

Where do you get that the teachings of Jesus are very good if you don't believe what the Bible says about Him and what He taught?

I believe that the teachings of Jesus are very good, as recorded in the Bible, but I don't believe everything else that the Bible says about Jesus.

 

[Laniakea]

I believe that the teachings of Jesus are very good, as recorded in the Bible, but I don't believe everything else that the Bible says about Jesus.

How do you decide what's true and what isn't from the same source?