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What is the Rapture?

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
For the sake of non-bible-thumper types, the "Rapture" is an event that takes place at the end of the current epoch of human civilization that's the bookend (the Rapture is) to Noah's flood at the other end (the distant past) of the current historical time-frame. In the biblical books of Daniel (the Tanakh) and Revelation (the NT) numerous events in the final years of the current civilization are noted that we can now see are not as strange and mystical as they originally seemed before the advent of the most recent scientific age.

For instance, the book of Revelation says the ruler of the unified European common market of the time will cause everyone to include a particular number or marker in their hand or forehead without which their normal ability to purchase goods and services will cease. No more Amazon. No more non-cash purchases whatsoever. Furthermore, the same text claims some kind of artificial intelligence will be used to monitor not only the purchases of every person included in the marketplace, but every single thing they do, watch, say; information which will then be put into a powerful algorithm (AI augmented super quantum computer) that will determine that some, if not many, of those so monitored, must be eliminated for the good of the beastly golden age. The text is not shy about stating that they will be eliminated and that presumably the elimination is fairly clean and easy as though it's affected through the chip placed in their hand or forehead.

For bible-thumper-types that's pretty much all common knowledge. And the relationship between what only one-hundred years ago seemed like mystical events with no knowable, actual, significance, versus the clear analogues in modern science and current events, is easily digested.

Which leads to the question posed in this thread. What's the modern, scientific, event, that's described in the Bible, and which has come to be named the "Rapture"? What kind of event, what actual technology, could account for millions of people suddenly and instantaneously (in the blink of an eye) disappearing without a trace? In the Biblical concept of the Rapture, the people aren't incinerated or eliminated by some unknown technology possessed by the same leaders who eliminate those who refuse to be vaccinated with a number in their hand or forehead since the Rapture occurs just prior to the finishing touches being put on the leadership of the completed European union.

In the Bible, the Rapture is a worldwide event that sets off tectonic shifts in politics, economics, society in general, seemingly implying that the intelligentsia of the world knows something about what caused the Rapture, and what it entails for the world, such that the leaders of the world who don't take part in the Rapture unite in an attempt to fix whatever caused the Rapture, or prepare for the return of those who weren't left behind?

But what, in a non-mystical sense, i.e., what, with what we're now learning about physics, reality, technology, is the Rapture?



John
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The book of Revelation says the ruler of the unified European common market of the time will cause everyone to include a particular number or marker in their hand or forehead without which their normal ability to purchase goods and services will cease.
Where in the book of Revelation does it say that? What Chapter and verses?
n the Bible, the Rapture is a worldwide event that sets off tectonic shifts in politics, economics, society in general, seemingly implying that the intelligentsia of the world knows something about what caused the Rapture, and what it entails for the world, such that the leaders of the world who don't take part in the Rapture unite in an attempt to fix whatever caused the Rapture, or prepare for the return of those who weren't left behind?
In the Bible? What specific Bible verses say there will be a "worldwide event that sets off tectonic shifts in politics, economics, and society in general"?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Ok. What do you think is there in the verse?

John
What is there is what it says, but I don't know what it means. I believe that whole chapter is symbolic. There is no beast or dragon.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelation 13

13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
 

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
Ok. What do you think is there in the verse?



John
Although the part about the mark/number and buying/selling is true, nowhere does it say or imply that millions will disappear in an instance. This part about the righteous disappearing and the wicked left behind seems totally made up (I am not sure by whom or where it originated).

In fact Jesus's own words seem contradict it. In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says "‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire" - implying the wicked will be banished and the good will be left behind. Many evangelicals believe that there will be a 1000-year reign of the Christ on earth with only the good allowed to remain (so presumably the wicked will indeed disappear?)
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Perhaps. But there's an etymological and logical umbilical cord stretched out between that verse and verses that do seem to speak of a European common market.



John
Nope. Revelation is about the Jewish-Roman war. It is not about anything in the 21st century. You are basically taking a verse, adding a bunch of stuff to it, and creating your own story out of whole cloth.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
How so? It is in the New Testament so I thought it was supposed to be about the return of Chist and what would happen when He returns.
There are at least four different interpretations of Revelations. You espouse the view called futurism, when believes that everything in Revelation is about the end times. That is popular NOW among evangelicals, but such has not always been the case. For hundreds of years, Protestants preferred the approach known as historicism, in which each of the bowls, trumpets, scrolls, etc are a different period in history. I espouse the view called Preterism. Preterism states that Revelations was about current events during the Jewish-Roman war in the first century. Believers then would have readily known what all the symbolism applied to. For example, Caesar Nero adds to 666, and pagan Rome is the whore of Babylon. You can learn more about Preterism here:
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
What's the modern, scientific, event, that's described in the Bible, and which has come to be named the "Rapture"? What kind of event, what actual technology, could account for millions of people suddenly and instantaneously (in the blink of an eye) disappearing without a trace? In the Biblical concept of the Rapture, the people aren't incinerated or eliminated by some unknown technology
One modern take on the biblical Rapture, from a psychological and neurological perspective, is the onset of a dissociative mass-psychosis, globally spreading through a collective narrative; for instance, online.

If groups collectively go into [psychotic] trances in which they cease to believe that they materially exist and therefore cease to act at all, they will perish. In the deep mental state they’d be in, they could do so peacefully, without noticing (individuals have done this and some think that certain extinct tribes ceased to be in such a manner).

Were this to occur on a large enough scale (possible today, because of global connectivity) vast parts of society would “crash” and the world as we know it would slowly and painfully turn into chaos. The only ones to experience this rapture would be those who attempt to cling on to worldly “reality” and fight the state of peaceful trance.

Humbly,
Hermit
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
One modern take on the biblical Rapture, from a psychological and neurological perspective, is the onset of a dissociative mass-psychosis, globally spreading through a collective narrative; for instance, online.

If groups collectively go into [psychotic] trances in which they cease to believe that they materially exist and therefore cease to act at all, they will perish. In the deep mental state they’d be in, they could do so peacefully, without noticing (individuals have done this and some think that certain extinct tribes ceased to be in such a manner).

Were this to occur on a large enough scale (possible today, because of global connectivity) vast parts of society would “crash” and the world as we know it would slowly and painfully turn into chaos. The only ones to experience this rapture would be those who attempt to cling on to worldly “reality” and fight the state of peaceful trance.

Humbly,
Hermit

That's at least an interesting hypothesis . . . and is probably technically possible. One problem is the Bible implies that those Raptured are removed from the earth to meet the Lord in the clouds leaving the world behind to undergo the Tribulation period after which they return to the earth with the Lord.



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Nope. Revelation is about the Jewish-Roman war. It is not about anything in the 21st century. You are basically taking a verse, adding a bunch of stuff to it, and creating your own story out of whole cloth.

Can you justify Revelation 13:16 within a Preterist framework?




John
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Rapture is for Brazil, Argentina, Italy, France, Portugal, Spain to win a Football cup or for India, Pakistan, Bangladesh to win a Cricket cup. That is 'Rapture'.

natwest28122019.jpeg
2002 T-20 World Cup win at Lords, London.
 
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John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Although the part about the mark/number and buying/selling is true, nowhere does it say or imply that millions will disappear in an instance. This part about the righteous disappearing and the wicked left behind seems totally made up (I am not sure by whom or where it originated).

1 Corinthians 15:51-52, coupled with Thessalonians 4:17 at least insinuate the righteous disappearing in an instant.

In fact Jesus's own words seem contradict it. In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says "‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire" - implying the wicked will be banished and the good will be left behind. Many evangelicals believe that there will be a 1000-year reign of the Christ on earth with only the good allowed to remain (so presumably the wicked will indeed disappear?)

A careful study of scripture implies there are two events. In the first (the Rapture), the righteous are taken and the wicked left. In the second, the wicked are removed and the righteous are left to go into the millennial reign of Christ.

Premillennial Dispensational Theology --- with emphasis on a pre-trib Rapture --- has done the exegesis to show all that. What I was really interested in discussing in this thread is the possibility (if there is one) to describe the Rapture in scientific terms.

Much in Revelation is now appreciable in scientific terms (like the inability to purchase without a number in the hand or forehead). We now have weapons of mass destruction that could be a scientific explanation for the Trumpet and Vial judgments found in Revelation whereby one third of all the trees on the planet get incinerated in a very short time-frame (less than three years). I was wondering if some element of the newest scientific knowledge could makes sense of the Rapture?



John
 
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