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What is the difference?

Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
TagliatelliMonster said:
So how come western men are able to control themselves much better then?
Could it perhaps be that this is so because muslim men in islamic cultures are never "trained" or taught on how to properly interact with the opposite sex? How to control their urges? How to see women as actual equals?
Could it perhaps be that this is because of the cultural idea that a woman that doesn't wear a hijab / niqaab / burqa is like a prostitute?

See this is one of the many reasons why westerners tend to view islam as "woman unfriendly".
This whole mentality is what forms the feeding ground for the idea that a woman that is raped isn't a victim but rather an adulteress. It feeds the idea that women themselves are "responsible" for getting raped.

Going forward, I think this is an important one for islamic cultures around the world to tackle.
I think it is badly needed.
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I believe the islamic teaching is good for those who follow it, for those who do not it might look wrong. Personally i believe you find bad people in any aspects of human beings. Not just in islam
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Conscious thoughts said:
I believe the islamic teaching is good for those who follow it, for those who do not it might look wrong. Personally i believe you find bad people in any aspects of human beings. Not just in islam
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I'm not talking about "bad" or "good" people.

I'm talking about cultural values.
And the cultural values under discussion here, are values that form a feeding ground for misogyny and "victim blaming" in case of rape. It also forms a feeding ground for treating women who don't conform to such "man's world" norms as if they are prostitutes. It also forms a feeding ground for men to not be properly equipped to interact with the opposite sex on equal terms, nor for engaging in some basic self-control.
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Conscious thoughts said:
As a muslim i often hear non muslims complaining about muslim woman wearing hijab.

But why is it no problem when a western female cover her head with a scarf?[/quote[ Because many onlookers perceive the scarf as the woman's choice and the hijab as the system's discriminatory obligation, there being no equivalent for men.

I appreciate that some women are volunteers. My own view is that this is fine, just as with the scarf. However, teaching girls at school that this is a religious necessity is nonsense, and can be oppressive in certain circumstances.
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Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
Conscious thoughts said:
They have better control of their body and sexual drive, i do not say they have no sexual lust, they are just better in controlling it
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I would disagree. There is nothing wrong with a woman dressing as she wants, as she feels most comfortable (and, if it is her own free will, that includes wearing a hijab) and sometimes she may dress to attract men. Just as men dress to attract women..

I am a western, white, atheist, male. I have raped precisely no women. I have been monogamous for nearly 50-years, My wife and her female friends, my female work colleagues did not in the most wear hijabs.
Does that mean I am better than Muslims at controlling my 'lust'.?
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Altfish said:
I would disagree. There is nothing wrong with a woman dressing as she wants, as she feels most comfortable (and, if it is her own free will, that includes wearing a hijab) and sometimes she may dress to attract men. Just as men dress to attract women..

I am a western, white, atheist, male. I have raped precisely no women. I have been monogamous for nearly 50-years, My wife and her female friends, my female work colleagues did not in the most wear hijabs.
Does that mean I am better than Muslims at controlling my 'lust'.?
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I am a white muslim man, never raped or hermed any woman in my life, does that make me a bad muslim?

Not every muslim man do wrong or has less control, just as in any society there are those who do wrong
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
TagliatelliMonster said:
No.

The question is about why lust (and dealing with it) is apparently a bigger problem for muslim men then non-muslim men.

The question is why.
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It's is not a bigger problem for muslim men than non muslim men. But islam has different rules of we should behave. And it seems like muslim woman behave better than many men.

It's not about Islam vs not islam.
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Conscious thoughts said:
It's is not a bigger problem for muslim men than non muslim men.
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You yourself acknowledged that it is though. Note the bolded and underlined part:

Conscious thoughts said:
Agree speaking with @firedragon i realized the headscarf we call hijab could be avoided if all muslims was able to control them self, it can be noticed that when muslim men come to the western countries some of them do very bad things to non muslim woman, because they are tempted by western females yes very little clothing.

So the hijab men should wear is mental strenght to be with Allah, and not with lust of flesh.
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It's not about Islam vs not islam.
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Idd. Instead, it's about how men treat women and how the cultural values of islamic culture don't seem to encourage men to learn how to deal with women and instead make it woman's job to accomodate for the man's lack of self-control.
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
TagliatelliMonster said:
You yourself acknowledged that it is though. Note the bolded and underlined part:






Idd. Instead, it's about how men treat women and how the cultural values of islamic culture don't seem to encourage men to learn how to deal with women and instead make it woman's job to accomodate for the man's lack of self-control.
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I can agree when some muslim men travel to non muslim country where woman dress in mostly no clothes at all, it distube their thinking. But i have to say, this is not all muslim men who gain this problem.
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
TagliatelliMonster said:
Repeating the same words is not going to make it clearer.

In what way do you mean this? How does this better "self control", or lack thereof, manifest itself in your opinion?
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The best self control would be to not look at other than your own wife, to have focus only inward in how to become a better practitioner of Islam.
Not being disturbed by things or people, no matter what they do or wear.

For a muslim the spiritual awakening should be their Main focus.
 
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