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Featured What is the baptism by fire? (Matthew 3:11)

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 2ndpillar, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    What is baptism by fire? (Matthew 3:11)
    There are generally two ways of doing things, the easy way, and the hard way. Since the “many” have chosen the way to “destruction”, and follow the “false prophets” (Matthew 7:13-15), instead of the way to “life” (Matthew 7:14), measures will be taken. In order to “refine” the sheep, they are passed “through the fire” (Zechariah 13:7-9). Not to worry though, for only “two parts in it will be cut off and perish; but the third will be left in it”. This is in respect to the “little ones”. The nations on the other hand, will also pass through the fire (Revelation 9:18), and the unrepentant survivors will end up where there is “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:42) & (Matthew 24:51). What are they unrepentant about? (Revelation 9:21).
     
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  2. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Baptism with fire is when the world is washed by holy fire (harvest) at the coming of God to this reality.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  3. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Fire can also be personal. The next part clarifies this verse. Fire can burn away the lower nature of someone as chaff is burned leaving one purified.

    Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
     
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  4. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    The Baptism by fire is a symbolism for baptism by the Holy Spirit.
    The other fire referred to is symbolic of judgement as fire separates the gold from its impurities so too the judgement is a time of separation between pure souls and those affected by worldly dross
     
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  5. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    At the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:39), it will be the "tares" which are "first" gathered up (Matthew 13:30), and thrown into the fire. Not everyone survives the "refining" fire (Zechariah 13:8-9). Only 1/3 of the "little ones" actually survive, the other 2/3 "perish" (Zechairah 13:8). The fires of the 6th angel kill 1/3 of all mankind (Revelation 9:18). The 7 angels are the seven stars held in the hand of the "son of man" (Revelation 1:13-20).
     
  7. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    And the pope wears combat boots. The "fire" of Matthew 13:49-50, is accompanied by the "wicked"/"tares", being taken to a place were there shall "be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is quite different. The "fire" of Revelation 9:18, results in "a third of mankind was killed". The "Holy Spirit" gives life, not death. The 1/3 of the "little ones" coming through the fire were "refined", 2/3 of the others, "perished".
     
  9. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    In their context, I don't see any connection to Paul with the verses you have quoted. The Bible is clear that Jesus Himself called Saul, the former persecutor of the early church, as an apostle to the Gentiles. All the other apostles seeing the dramatic change and repentance in their former threatening enemy also recognized that Jesus had appointed Paul to be one of them and a minister of the gospel.

    You are certainly free to have your views, but I think they are completely contrary to the scriptures and so far out there that I have no desire to debate the subject.
     
  10. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Zechariah 13:7 'strike the Shepherd', same as we find Yeshua saying in Matthew 26:31... So the 2/3 were the flock for slaughter back at the 2nd temple destruction in Zechariah 13:8, and then one third remain for the fire baptism later in Zechariah 13:9.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  11. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is that enovled although there are many other "fire" applications as you have noted, especially since it reference the Holy Ghost. Your application would be correct for 12 IMO

    I believe it was simply Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

    John Gill said "he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire; referring, either to the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit, to be bestowed on the disciples on the day of Pentecost, of which the cloven tongues, like as of fire, which appeared unto them, and sat upon them, were the symbols;"
     
  12. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    1813aqov5wc2jjpg.jpg

    Maybe it's a patch of magic mushrooms since definitely the posting was an acid tripping interpretation of the bible.
     
  13. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    Wow.

    I see the baptism of fire as the chrism (which is what Christ means).

    The Gospel of Philip explains it this way:
    The chrism is superior to baptism, for it is from the word "Chrism" that we have been called "Christians," certainly not because of the word "baptism". And it is because of the chrism that "the Christ" has his name. For the Father anointed the Son, and the Son anointed the apostles, and the apostles anointed us. He who has been anointed possesses everything. He possesses the resurrection, the light, the cross, the Holy Spirit. The Father gave him this in the bridal chamber; he merely accepted (the gift). The Father was in the Son and the Son in the Father. This is the Kingdom of Heaven.

    The canon gospels and Paul explain it the same way, if you move throughout them. The OT has no knowledge of it, because it didn't arrive until Jesus became Christ (receiving all the above possessions). It defines the term (becoming a son of God).

    John:
    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    The Chrism is that power.
     
  14. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 7:15 “Beware of the “false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves”.

    It is Paul who claims to be of the tribe of Benjamin. The blessing of Benjamin, (Genesis 49:27), is that they shall be as “ravenous wolves” As for Paul, he came as a lamb, but eats the flesh of the sheep, and makes the first day of the week the day he will collect money from them (1 Corinthians 16:2). The fruit of the church built on his teaching, the false gospel of grace/cross, has a history of bad fruit. The Inquisition, the laundering of money for the mafia, sexual misbehavior by priest, etc., are all characteristic “bad fruit”.

    As for Zechariah 11:4-7, that is with respect to the two “staffs” taken to “pasture the flock doomed to slaughter”, of which the “staff” called “Favor”, was Paul, who preached the false gospel of Grace, which is with respect to the unmerited “favor of God”.

    The only people who spoke up for Paul, were the unknown writers of Acts, a supposed associate of Paul, 2 Peter, and Paul himself. Self witness is “not true” (John 5:31). As for the apostles, they were told to leave the tares in place, and leave them alone (Matthew 13:29). Now that we are at the “end of the age”(Matthew 13:39), there is no longer any protection in place.
     
  15. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Baptism
    With Fire. When many Pharisees and Sadducees came out to John the Baptizer, he called them “offspring of vipers.” He spoke of the coming One and said: “That one will baptize you people with holy spirit and with fire.” (Matthew 3:7, 11; Luke 3:16) The baptism with fire is not the same as baptism with holy spirit. The fiery baptism could not be, as some say, the tongues of fire at Pentecost, for the disciples there were not immersed in fire. (Acts of Apostles 2:3) John told his listeners that there would be a division, there would be a gathering of the wheat, after which the chaff would be burned up with fire that could not be put out. (Matthew 3:12) He pointed out that the fire would not be a blessing or a reward but would be because ‘the tree did not produce fine fruit.’—Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9.

    Using fire as a symbol of destruction, Jesus foretold the execution of the wicked to take place during his presence, saying: “On the day that Lot came out of Sodom it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all. The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed.” (Luke 17:29, 30; Matthew 13:49, 50) Other instances of fire representing, not a saving force, but a destructive one, are found at Jude 7; and 2 Peter 3:7, 10.

    Baptism — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
     
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  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    And can you give the reason for this judgment?
     
  17. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    And what is his name? As for the OT having "no knowledge", Yeshua is the "Word of God" (Revelation 19:13) & (John 1:14), for which the "Word" is the Law and the prophets. Yeshua said the "kingdom of heaven" "from the time of John the Baptist until now"... "suffers violence" (Matthew 11:12). The followers of Paul have attempted to make that "Word" "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13). Paul's followers for the most part, do not think they need to produce "good fruit", and that they are already "saved", and they are released from the Law (Roman 7:6). Yeshua disagrees (Matthew 7:19-23). The axe is at the foot of the trees that do not produce good fruit. As for who are sons of God, that would be those who do the will of God (Matthew 12:50)
     
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Fire is what will "refine" the "little ones" (Zechariah 13:7-9). One third will be brought through the fire and be refined. 2/3 will perish in the fire. The 6th angel will kill one third of mankind with fire, brimstone, and smoke (Revelation 9:18).
     
  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    The same reason for any judgment meted out by God.....disobedience to his commands.
     
  20. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I think you mistake Christendom for Christianity. Paul was not a false apostle or else God would have exposed him through the other apostles who were all possessed of holy spirit. Do you honestly believe that God would permit his word and Christ's mission to be taken over by men? You seem to think that God is somehow powerless.....why? We were warned well in advance about the "weeds" of Christendom. They were not sown by Paul.
     
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