methylatedghosts
Can't brain. Has dumb.
[/i]
I give up.
Honestly, I'm surprised it took you this long! You might have had more success arguing against a brick wall. Some people are just immovable.
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What is sexually immoral?
- Thread starter tomspug
- Start date
Honestly, I'm surprised it took you this long! You might have had more success arguing against a brick wall. Some people are just immovable.
Dr. Strange
Member
Given you use the word sin and this is a religious forum, I have to ask that you define words and phrases that you used. What is the definition of sin biblically? And the word, marriage. please define marriage using a biblical passage that also clarifies that marriage is a precept of God.
Some biblical facts:
- Marriage is not a word in the ancient Hebrew language; nor is wife or husband
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
. . . not enjoying it
Scott C.
Just one guy
Hi,
By sin, I mean a violation of God's commandments. So I believe that sex outside of marriage is a violation of God's commandments. Are you asking me to show you in the Bible where God acknowledges a thing such as marriage and indicates that sex should only happen within that marriage? If we're going to have to get into Hebrew vs King James English, I'm not up to the task. Sorry. But, I do believe that the Bible makes it clear that marriage is necessary for sex.
Nada
#
Pretty much anything this world deems as sexy or good is immoral.Just look at movies,TV,video games,music etc.. All those stupid reality shows are crazy.Look at Grand Theft Auto the video game.Need I say anything about music? Movies are all about sex.If you go to the holy scriptures and read what God says is sexually immoral,it is everything you see this world doing.
Dr. Strange
Member
Sorry, must have hit a key that posted this reply unfinished.
Cont.,
- Actually, premarital sex was what was called marriage (if you can use a word that did not exist then). Note that all references to what we call marriage today was a ceremony after premarital sex. Song of Solomon was about premarital sex. There never was a marriage ceremony.
- Marriage was first recognized in the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent.
- Marriage was mostly about the rich's estates and lineage.
- Women were the property of men and worth protecting the lineage.
- Jewish recognition in marriage was legal contract.
- None of which had anything to do with romance or love.
- Sex had nothing to do with the sin that was apparent when a man or woman committed adultery. Look to the Ten Commandments and you will see the same theme, sin spoken over and over again.
Having an affair is deceitful, a lie. Affairs are hurtful and begs the question of trust and safety. Two people in love with each other and in an open relationship have good communication. The other knows what the other is doing even if they are not doing it together. The formula for agreeing with each other works like this:
yes + yes = yes;
no + yes = no;
yes + no + no.
Extra-marital sex is not a sin unless what is in your heart is abusive.
Midnight Rain
Well-Known Member
Rape.
Dr. Strange
Member
Really. Oh sorry. I would be interested in what you think the Bible says about sex. And please, biblically define "sexual immorality
Thanks for your response. I am up for the task but your above reply tells me that you have an opinion and a belief but do not know why.
There is only one sin in the Bible and all the sins that most Christians speak of really are nothing more than moralism. Morality is very difficult to define using the Bible. My point about sex being sinful is that the words are not interchangeable. Sex is not sin nor is, sin sex. Sexually immoral does have a biblical definition but I doubt that it is what you'd expect.
So, I always wonder why Christians make such claims about sin being anything other than what the Bible says sin is.
Nada
#
If you read what the bible says about sexual immorality, that is the biblical definition.
1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled.Those who are sexually immoral,idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality,
1 Timothy 1:10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
Galatians 5:19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
nazz
Doubting Thomas
I see no definition there
Dr. Strange
Member
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Jude 7; Even as Sodom Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
ekporneusasai
ekporneusasai
G1608
vp Aor Act Nom Pl f
OUT-PROSTITUTing
committing-ultra-prostitution
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/jud1.pdf
Jude
7Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice,*serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.g
“* [7]Practiced unnatural vice: literally, “went after alien flesh.” This example derives from Gn 19:1–25, especially 4–11, when the townsmen of Sodom violated both hospitality and morality by demanding that Lot’s two visitors (really messengers of Yahweh) be handed over to them so that they could ahttp://scripture them sexually. Unnatural vice: this refers to the desire for intimacies by human beings with angels (the reverse of the example in Jude 6). Sodom (whence “sodomy”) and Gomorrah became proverbial as object lessons for God’s punishment on sin (Is 1:9; Jer 50:40; Am 4:11; Mt 10:15; 2Pt 2:6).”
scripture
1 Corinthian 6: 9;
“9*Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes*nor sodomites”
scripture
“* [6:9] The Greek word translated as boy prostitutes may refer to catamites, i.e., boys or young men who were kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the Greco-Roman world. In Greek mythology this was the function of Ganymede, the “cupbearer of the gods,” whose Latin name was Catamitus. The term translated sodomites refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys. See similar condemnations of such practices in Rom 1:26–27; 1 Tm 1:10.”
scripture
1 Corinthian 6: 18;
“18Avoid immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the immoral person sins against his own body.*”
scripture
ff: “In 6, 12-20 the fornication referred to is probably that of religious prostitution, an accepted part of pagan culture in Rome.” NAB1970, p, 1264.
1 Timothy 1: 10;
“10the unchaste, sodomites,*kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,h”
“* [1:10] Sodomites: see 1 Cor 6:9and the note there.”
scripture
ff: “1, 8-11; Those responsible for the empty surmises which are to be suppressed by Timothy do not present the Old Testament from the Christian viewpoint. The Christian values the Old Testament, not as a system of law, but as the first stage in God's revelation of his saving plan, which is brought to fulfillment in the good news of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.” NAB1970, p. 1320.
Colossians 3: 5;
“5Put to death, then, the parts of you that are earthly:cimmorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and the greed that is idolatry.*”
porneian
porneian
G4202
n_ Acc Sg f
PROSTITUTION
. Mortify therefore your
members which are upon the
earth; fornication, uncleanness,
inordinate affection, evil
concupiscence, and
covetousness, which is
idolatry:
5
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/col3.pdf
Galatians 5: 19;
“19*Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness,o”
scripture
porneia
porneia
G4202
n_ Nom Sg f
PROSTITUTION
“Now the works of the flesh
are manifest, which are [these];
Adultery, fornication,
uncleanness, lasciviousness,
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/gal5.pdf
2 Corinthians 12: 21;
“21I fear that when I come again*my God may humiliate me before you, and I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, immorality, and licentiousness they practiced.”
scripture
The verse you quoted (unknown version) reads: “2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.”
What is sexually immoral? | Page 15 | ReligiousForums.com
The phrase of interest to which you replied is “sexual immorality.” The phrase in your quoted unknown version is, “sexual sin.” I have quoted from several sources that the phrase of interest here comes from the Greek word, “porneia” meaning “PROSTITUTION.” http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/gal5.pdf
What I read in the Bible then is that sexual immorality is, prostitution.
Would you agree?
Scott C.
Just one guy
What I meant was that I'm not an expert on Hebrew and would not be able to argue translations.So far, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Jesus said we should not lust, for example. To me, lusting is therefore a sin. How do you respond? But, before we go on, do you believe in God and in the Bible?
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Any behaviour which harms another.
Nada
#
Thank you for taking the time to explain your view.What you read in the bible is referring to fornication,sexual immorality.Notice what it says in 1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against
his own body.
So we can see it does not literally mean to go and sell ones body for money in these passages such as in Jude 1:7. It means: to go a whoring, "give one's self over to fornication"
The original word in Hebrew is zanah
Pronounce: zaw-naw'
Strong: H2181
Orig: a primitive root (highly-fed and therefore wanton); to commit adultery (usually of the female, and less often of simple fornication, rarely of involuntary ravishment); figuratively, to commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of Jehovah):--(cause to) commit fornication, X continually, X great, (be an, play the) harlot, (cause to be, play the) whore, (commit, fall to) whoredom, (cause to) go a-whoring, whorish.
Use: TWOT-563 Verb
Grk Strong: G1608 G1712 G4203 G4204
1) to commit fornication, be a harlot, play the harlot
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to be a harlot, act as a harlot, commit fornication
1a2) to commit adultery
1a3) to be a cult prostitute
1a4) to be unfaithful (to God) (fig.)
1b) (Pual) to play the harlot
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to cause to commit adultery
1c2) to force into prostitution
1c3) to commit fornication
Dictionary Definition of Whoredom: prostitution or other promiscuous sexual activity.
If you go to Bible hub and look up Jude 1:7 it never uses the word prostitution.Out of 21 translations 19 use sexual immorality or fornication.2 of them use impurity and whoredom.
All of this is speaking of sexual immorality................
Dr. Strange
Member
Thank you for taking the time to explain your view.What you read in the bible is referring to fornication,sexual immorality.Notice what it says in 1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against
his own body.
Dictionary Definition of Whoredom: prostitution or other promiscuous sexual activity.
If you go to Bible hub and look up Jude 1:7 it never uses the word prostitution.Out of 21 translations 19 use sexual immorality or fornication.2 of them use impurity and whoredom.
All of this is speaking of sexual immorality................
What I read is that every instance of a passage using some form of Greek word pornea is talking about prostitution. Every passage that uses the phrase, "sexual immorality," is speaking about prostitution. Every version that interprets pornea in some other way has misrepresented the true meaning of the passage. The depth of the issue goes even deeper if one considers that:
1 Corinthian 6: 9;
“9*Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes*nor sodomites”
scripture
“* [6:9] The Greek word translated as boy prostitutes may refer to catamites, i.e., boys or young men who were kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the Greco-Roman world. In Greek mythology this was the function of Ganymede, the “cupbearer of the gods,” whose Latin name was Catamitus. The term translated sodomites refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys. See similar condemnations of such practices in Rom 1:26–27; 1 Tm 1:10.”
scripture
refers to "boy prostitutes," and from their translates "sodomites" which then is construed as homosexuality.
What I saw in all your references from Strongs (which by the way, the interlinear NT referenced G4203 in Strongs) was the reverse purpose of translating Greek words by interjecting other translations apparently coming out of differing Bible versions. None of which has any support from the tools used to interpret the word, pornea.
For instance, why would 6: 9 use, ("neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes*nor sodomites”") the words idolaters, adulterers, boy prostitutes, and, sodomites if not to list separate issues. Why then does Strong's combine all these into one phrase to be defined as "sexual immorality?" Idolatry has nothing to do with sexual immorality. Sure the act of adultery represents an act contrary to God's image. As does prostitution; the kidnapping of boys off the streets forcing them into temple prostitution; sodomites (come on!) is just a cover-up of the real abuse of pedophilia; and then some versions use the word homosexuality. Wow! a real stretch of the word, pornea.
I must ask, why does Christianity insist on changing the meaning of the Bible?
Nada
#
Here are some more references.
Do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body [with her]? For, ‘The two,’ says he [in the creation account of Genesis 2:24], ‘will be one flesh.’ But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. Flee from fornication. Every other sin which a man may commit is outside his body, but he that practices fornication is sinning against his own body.”—1 Cor. 6:15-18.
31 So if a member of Christ’s spiritual body commits immorality with one of the opposite sex, man or woman, that one is trying to take a member of Christ’s body and make it one flesh with the immoral person in fornication or adultery. Do you think that Christ Jesus will consent to being made one with a harlot or an adulteress?
Dictionary definition
har·lot:a prostitute or promiscuous woman.
Symbolic Use. Jehovah God spoke of the nation of Israel in covenant relationship to him as “a wife.” (Isa 54:5, 6) When the nation became unfaithful to him, ignoring him and turning to other nations such as Egypt and Assyria for help and entering into alliances with them, Israel was like an unfaithful wife, an adulteress, a prostitute, one carrying on fornication promiscuously. (Eze 16:15, 25-29) Likewise, if Christians in a dedicated relationship to God, or professing such a relationship, are unfaithful by engaging in false worship or by being friends of the world, they are called adulteresses.—Jas 4:4.
Fornication — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Ezekiel 16:14,15. 14 “‘Your fame began to spread among the nations because of your beauty, for it was perfect because my own splendor I placed upon you,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”
15 “‘But you began to trust in your beauty, and you became a prostitute because of your fame. You lavished your acts of prostitution on everyone passing by, and your beauty became his.
So here in these passages we can see that it speaks of God's people giving themselves over to others symbolically.This is considered spiritual adultery or spiritual fornication.It does not mean they sold themselves to people.It means they gave themselves over to them.Symbolically of course.
IndigoStorm
Member
Nothing that consenting adults do to and with each other is inappropriate,
Dr. Strange
Member
First ask yourself what Jesus' usage of "lust" was referring to. What was the sin that lust portrays? Which then takes us back to the meaning of sin. What is the meaning of sin. There is only one sin. Anything else is construed as moralism. Does that mean that underlying any moralism is the sin as defined in the Bible? No! Morals tend to be social, what a community deems as acceptable, or not. Hence, moralism but not, biblical, except in the sense of the Jewish Cult ( not being derogatory about Judaism) or, Christianity. The word cult here is referring to the rituals, the doctrine of a religion; that which establishes their identity.
I would respond to your question on lust but you failed to quote a passage. Give me a passage and I will address the meaning of lust in that passage using more than my above opinion.
Born Catholic, raised Catholic, left the Church when Vatican II was finalized because I could not accept that the Church had changed what I was taught as sacred. Married a Jesus Freak and studied under Protestant mentors (ELCA). Married for 35 years and I've studied for over 40 years. Today, the best I could answer your question with is that at the most I could be call an agnostic but personally, that borders on considering myself an atheist.
I understand that Christianity has changed since its beginning. Jesus did not establish Christianity. Jesus was Jewish and did not expound on a new religion. Jesus' divinity was established as the Early Church progressed, developed. At the very least Jesus was a prophet.
One's faith is not what one believes. Faith is unconditional. No man knows God and if man claims such knowledge then God does not exist. A personal god is not God. God, as infinite, is beyond any existential expression man can conjure up about God. One must keep this in mind as they worship in their house of God, or god.
Dr. Strange
Member
Well, there is nothing here that takes me by surprise. The symbolism, the idolatry of it all. What you have failed to recognize is that fornication is prostitution. What adultery represents is much what fornication represents and both are really about idolatry. From Judaism to Christianity, the meaning of "sexual immorality" is prostitution. Why does Christianity change that meaning? Why do you ignore the meaning? You are skirting what is obvious. But why?