What Is Sapience?

[Storm]

Is it simply sufficiently advanced intelligence? Is it dependent upon the presence of a soul? How would we know whether another species of animal, or our own AI had acheived it? Is there a hard line separating sapience from non, or is it a gradual process?

What do you think?

 

[Willamena]

Oddly, perhaps, I depend on answers.com for all my answers.

Sapience is the being possessing sound judgement. Whether it appeared in a whale, an AI, or answers.com, I would allow that that being was sapient.

 

[methylatedghosts]

The ability to create.

 

[Storm]

Create what? The first thing I think of is reproduction, which isn't exactly exclusive to sapient species.

 

[methylatedghosts]

To create thought.

(think bi-centennial man)

To be able to make something new that hasn't been.. implanted...

I'm not sure how I can word it to get my meaning across xD

 

[Father Heathen]

Is it simply sufficiently advanced intelligence? Is it dependent upon the presence of a soul? How would we know whether another species of animal, or our own AI had acheived it? Is there a hard line separating sapience from non, or is it a gradual process?

What do you think?

I guess it would be having sentience, consciousness, self awareness, the ability to reason, the ability to understand abstract thoughts and the capacity for empathy and complex emotions.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Perhaps also, the ability to learn.

 

[3.14]

immagination

 

[methylatedghosts]

immagination

Is that any different from creating thought? if so, how?

 

[3.14]

you can create a thought like hunger without it having any immagination

 

[painted wolf]

I think you will find the definition of sapience to be a bit fuzzy.
How many characteristics must something meet to reach sapience?

Magpies are self aware, their cousins the scrub jay can mentally put itself in another scrub jay's situation.

wa:do

 

[challupa]

I believe Sapience is when a species becomes self aware. Therefore I believe there is a gradual process to becoming totally self-aware. I do not believe the human species has reached total self awareness and may not for quite some time. However, the day when we became aware that we were self aware marked a pivotal moment in the evolution of our species. Now have I confused anyone yet.

 

[Storm]

I believe Sapience is when a species becomes self aware. Therefore I believe there is a gradual process to becoming totally self-aware. I do not believe the human species has reached total self awareness and may not for quite some time.

Now, that's an interesting perspective. I don't know that it's a useful one, though.

However, the day when we became aware that we were self aware marked a pivotal moment in the evolution of our species. Now have I confused anyone yet.

Not I. When I was, oh... 10 maybe? My father explained it to me thus: "To be sentient is to be aware. To be sapient is to be aware that you are aware."

 

[challupa]

Now, that's an interesting perspective. I don't know that it's a useful one, though.


Not I. When I was, oh... 10 maybe? My father explained it to me thus: "To be sentient is to be aware. To be sapient is to be aware that you are aware."

Hmm don't know how it is useful either, just what I think about where we're at in the sapience business. I think humans and probably other species are capable of much more "self awareness" than we currently display. I personally believe we are capable of alot more than we recognize yet. I think we are more powerful creators than we can imagine. The reason why I say that is that there are a few of our species that seem to have reached a higher level of self awareness than the rest of us general public. There appears to be more to us than is immediately apparent.

I'm glad I didn't confuse you... Your father and I share the same belief it would seem.

 

[3.14]

a grown manape probaly has more sapience then a 5 months old baby

 

[logician]

One question that has always interested me is if having a large brain gives a land species such an evolutionary advantage, why did it not evolve much earlier on, even before the dinosaurs came on the scene. The answer could be that it doesn't, unless the species also possesses other traits that don't evolve easily - tool making ability maybe, or a voice box for finer communication abilities.

Maybe it took the evolution of these other ancillary traits for the evolution of large brains to really take off.

 

[painted wolf]

Early mammals (dinosaur era) had larger brains than their reptilian ancestors.
Brain size increase is well documented in many lineages of mammals and birds.

As for pre-dinosaur big brains, the metabolism needed to fuel a large brain requires endothermy. This type of metabolism doesn't appear until the mammals and the dinosaur/pterosaur clade arrive on the scene.
Brain size still increases over time in the cold blooded lineages but not to the degree it does in warm blooded ones. Low metabolic rates can not sustain gratuitous brain mass.

wa:do

 

[challupa]

Early mammals (dinosaur era) had larger brains than their reptilian ancestors.
Brain size increase is well documented in many lineages of mammals and birds.

As for pre-dinosaur big brains, the metabolism needed to fuel a large brain requires endothermy. This type of metabolism doesn't appear until the mammals and the dinosaur/pterosaur clade arrive on the scene.
Brain size still increases over time in the cold blooded lineages but not to the degree it does in warm blooded ones. Low metabolic rates can not sustain gratuitous brain mass.

wa:do

I have heard that Neaderthal had a larger brain than Cro magnon but Neaderthal had no speech abilities like Cro Magnon. Having said that, a larger brain does not necessarily mean intelligence? How does that work?

 

[painted wolf]

Neanderthals show no signs of being incapable of speech. Their hyoid bone was the same as ours and in the same position. They had complex culture that would have required complex verbal communication.

But it is true that brain size does not exactly match intelligence. It is more about what the brain does with the space it has. The brain is made up of several parts that carry out different duties. For instance the Tenrec (an insect eating mammal) and the Marmoset (a primate) have brains roughly the same size for bodies roughly the same size, yet the Marmoset has a neocortex that is ten times as large as the Tenrec's.
The Tenrec is nocturnal and uses it's brain for smelling and getting around in the dark. The Marmoset needs its brain to judge distances and uses its eyes as its main sensory organ.
Marmosets are more social and their brain reflects this as well.

wa:do

 

[challupa]

Neanderthals show no signs of being incapable of speech. Their hyoid bone was the same as ours and in the same position. They had complex culture that would have required complex verbal communication.

But it is true that brain size does not exactly match intelligence. It is more about what the brain does with the space it has. The brain is made up of several parts that carry out different duties. For instance the Tenrec (an insect eating mammal) and the Marmoset (a primate) have brains roughly the same size for bodies roughly the same size, yet the Marmoset has a neocortex that is ten times as large as the Tenrec's.
The Tenrec is nocturnal and uses it's brain for smelling and getting around in the dark. The Marmoset needs its brain to judge distances and uses its eyes as its main sensory organ.
Marmosets are more social and their brain reflects this as well.

wa:do

That's interesting. So our intellect in a sense matches our needs. That makes humans even more intriguing then. Why did we need to evolve the way we have.