What is "reality?"

[YmirGF]

Not in it's entirety but it exists regardless...and will continue to do so when I expire.

That is an assumption about reality however.

 

[Koldo]

*giggles*
:beach:
*pulls up a seat*

I have already replied to her post.
Slow boy, huh?

 

[Willamena]

Does the fact that we are aware of the fact that the universe extends beyond are awareness make any difference in this? Does our awareness of our 'non-awareness' count as us being aware, and thus the part of the universe of which we are unaware, reality?

I don't think we are aware of any "fact that the universe extends beyond our awareness." Our awareness at any given time is the extent of the universe. More awareness, more universe. Or, to be practical about it, it's as much as we can honestly claim.

Awareness of our "non-awareness" would count as awareness, and so not be non-awareness. Much of Zen Buddhism (as I understand it) is involved with sticks that smart (hurt) when one realizes that "that side" is this side in disguise. The emphasis is (rightly, I think) on monism.

Not in it's entirety but it exists regardless...and will continue to do so when I expire.

It's a matter of honesty, though --can you honestly claim that if you don't exist the universe is there? How do you know that that's true? You're not around to verify it.

 

[Copernicus]

Is the past real?

No, but it once was.

 

[Willamena]

Is the past real?

Here and now, we paint past, present and future.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't think we are aware of any "fact that the universe extends beyond our awareness." Our awareness at any given time is the extent of the universe. More awareness, more universe. Or, to be practical about it, it's as much as we can honestly claim.

That's quite a bit to claim right there.

Exactly what within your awareness suggests to you that there is nothing beyond your awareness? In the bit I've highlighted, you've made a major (and IMO unsubstantiated) leap. It's one thing to say "we don't know what's beyond our awareness"; it's another to say "there is nothing beyond our awareness."

Awareness of our "non-awareness" would count as awareness, and so not be non-awareness. Much of Zen Buddhism (as I understand it) is involved with sticks that smart (hurt) when one realizes that "that side" is this side in disguise. The emphasis is (rightly, I think) on monism.


It's a matter of honesty, though --can you honestly claim that if you don't exist the universe is there? How do you know that that's true? You're not around to verify it.

OTOH, can you honestly claim that the universe ceases to exist when you do? As you point out, we're not around to verify it.

You're making knowledge claims about things that you argue are beyond our knowledge. You're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

 

[Koldo]

Here's me. There's you. There's the world.

Everything is composed of information. I'm composed of information; you're composed of information; the world --all information.

"Reality" is a picture painted with most of that information, bits that we accept as true. My conscious mind paints; your conscious mind paints. We may not paint the same picture, but no matter --that there is a picture painted is "reality".

Reality: a truthful picture of the world

In fact, i disagree. By the time you start painting, you start to filter it through your awareness, and then it is not possible to know how much of it is still reality. In other words, it stops being pure reality, that is IF it really was reality to begin with.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

That is an assumption about reality however.

Not really...I have died before.

I remember my past deaths, well some of them...so I assume the universe remained operational inbetween.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

That's quite a bit to claim right there.

Exactly what within your awareness suggests to you that there is nothing beyond your awareness? In the bit I've highlighted, you've made a major (and IMO unsubstantiated) leap. It's one thing to say "we don't know what's beyond our awareness"; it's another to say "there is nothing beyond our awareness."

Indeed...taking the agnostic position I side with the possibility that the universe is not a figment of my imagination.

OTOH, can you honestly claim that the universe ceases to exist when you do? As you point out, we're not around to verify it.

The material universe ceases to exist for you definately...my existence depends upon the existence of the real universe but not visa versa.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

I don't think we are aware of any "fact that the universe extends beyond our awareness." Our awareness at any given time is the extent of the universe. More awareness, more universe. Or, to be practical about it, it's as much as we can honestly claim..

In fact we are aware that we are observationally limited by lightspeed...thus we know the universe is greater than we know of.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Is the past real?

Relativistically speaking...yes.

 

[Willamena]

Exactly what within your awareness suggests to you that there is nothing beyond your awareness?

Nothing that I'm aware of.

In the bit I've highlighted, you've made a major (and IMO unsubstantiated) leap. It's one thing to say "we don't know what's beyond our awareness"; it's another to say "there is nothing beyond our awareness."

Thing is, I know of nothing that I'm not aware of. Now... to claim that there is actually is something even though I'm not aware of it, well that's just presumption.

OTOH, can you honestly claim that the universe ceases to exist when you do? As you point out, we're not around to verify it.

Just so.

You're making knowledge claims about things that you argue are beyond our knowledge. You're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

Am I? When did I do that?

 

[Willamena]

In fact, i disagree. By the time you start painting, you start to filter it through your awareness, and then it is not possible to know how much of it is still reality. In other words, it stops being pure reality, that is IF it really was reality to begin with.

What is "it" that you've "filtered through your awareness"? What is this (painted) "it"?

 

[Koldo]

What is "it" that you've "filtered through your awareness"? What is this (painted) "it"?

Reality.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Willamena.

Philosophy is utterly alien to me.
So I hope my answers makes some sense.
Apologies.

 

[Willamena]

Reality.

Now... What is "reality"? (harkening back to the OP)

 

[Willamena]

Willamena.

Philosophy is utterly alien to me.
So I hope my answers makes some sense.
Apologies.

You're mahvelous, dahling.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Indeed...taking the agnostic position I side with the possibility that the universe is not a figment of my imagination.

So do I.

I actually go one further and say that the experiences of my subjective mental awareness match much more closely with my mental model of how things are that assumes the existence of a "reality" that exists independently of my awareness than any solipsistic mental model I can come up with.

Thing is, I know of nothing that I'm not aware of. Now... to claim that there is actually is something even though I'm not aware of it, well that's just presumption.

Reasonable inference, actually, but potayto, potahto.

It is presumption to claim that there is nothing beyond what we're aware of.

Am I? When did I do that?

Right here:

I don't think we are aware of any "fact that the universe extends beyond our awareness." Our awareness at any given time is the extent of the universe. More awareness, more universe.

 

[Koldo]

Now... What is "reality"? (harkening back to the OP)

Reality is what exists even if you are not aware of it.

 

[Willamena]

It is presumption to claim that there is nothing beyond what we're aware of.

Yes!

Right here:

I don't think we are aware of any "fact that the universe extends beyond our awareness." Our awareness at any given time is the extent of the universe. More awareness, more universe.

I am honestly failing to see how that qualifies as "making knowledge claims about things that {I} argue are beyond our knowledge." What do I argue is "beyond our knowledge"?