What is it with Radical Muslims and beheadings?

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

In the west it is voluntary arbitrage between Muslims in civil matters.. It does not supersede State or Federal law.

Let me repeat. There is no need for Islamic Court in the West. There is no need for Shariah in the West.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[sooda]

Let me repeat. There is no need for Islamic Court in the West. There is no need for Shariah in the West.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Sharia is the path to life giving water... basically, its the ten commandments.

 

[ToelessTooth]

What the terrorists are doing is radical.

Not at all. There is nothing innovative and groundbreaking about beheading someone or shooting groups of people. This is the stuff governments do, not radicals.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Shariah is Islamic Court. There is no need for Islamic Court in the West. There is no need for Shariah in the West.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Right, because rabbinical and canon courts aren't a thing

But please, don't let me get inconvenient facts in the rabble rousing, carry on.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

In the west it is voluntary arbitrage between Muslims in civil matters.. It does not supersede State or Federal law.

No no! It's all about cutting everyone's heads off! Rush said so!

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Sharia is the path to life giving water... basically, its the ten commandments.

Let me repeat. There is no need for Islamic Court in the West. There is no need for Shariah in the West.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Right, because rabbinical and canon courts aren't a thing

But please, don't let me get inconvenient facts in the rabble rousing, carry on.

OK, I will.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[dianaiad]

So why dont you do what muslims say? Its not up toto you to dictate religion to anyone, even perversion of religion.

No, it isn't up to me. That was my point. I don't dictate...but I can object, vehemently, when others demand that I accede to THEIR demands, or when they punish others for disagreeing with them, religiously.

Is it your position that you have the right to dictate to the rest of us how we should worship or exercise our religions, because you disapprove of us?

As for me, I don't have a problem with Muslims, as long as what they worship and do does not dictate what I worship and do. It is when they punish (by beheading or jailing...) others for not BEING the sort of Muslims they are that I speak up. It is when Muslims who live in the USA wish to make sharia law above the constitution, thus impacting those who do not agree with them, that I need to speak up.

Are you of the opinion that they should be able to do this? (shrug) You'll have to explain your position a little more clearly, I think.

 

[sooda]

No, it isn't up to me. That was my point. I don't dictate...but I can object, vehemently, when others demand that I accede to THEIR demands, or when they punish others for disagreeing with them, religiously.

Is it your position that you have the right to dictate to the rest of us how we should worship or exercise our religions, because you disapprove of us?

As for me, I don't have a problem with Muslims, as long as what they worship and do does not dictate what I worship and do. It is when they punish (by beheading or jailing...) others for not BEING the sort of Muslims they are that I speak up. It is when Muslims who live in the USA wish to make sharia law above the constitution, thus impacting those who do not agree with them, that I need to speak up.

Are you of the opinion that they should be able to do this? (shrug) You'll have to explain your position a little more clearly, I think.

You worry needlessly.

 

[dianaiad]

You worry needlessly.

Do I?

Would you care to show me how I am worrying needlessly?

Remember: I'm the one who still has a scar on my arm from having rocks thrown at me by evangelicals who didn't like Mormons walking down a public street in front of their meeting place.

I'm the great grandchild of the man who ran his horse almost to death getting to Brigham Young in order to tell him that the US had sent, quite literally, half the US army to Utah in order to arrest BY and confiscate all the property belonging to the Mormons--because everybody ELSE didn't like polygamy.

It's only been about a decade since Texas invaded (with SWAT teams, snipers, tanks and dogs) the FLDS compound, hauling off ALL the women and children away in Baptist buses.

Christians (and this is ironic, because evangelical Christians HERE wouldn't acknowledge those Christians AS Christians in any other circumstances) are being beheaded in Islamic nations.

So.

Tell me why I'm 'worrying needlessly?"

 

[sooda]

Do I?

Would you care to show me how I am worrying needlessly?

Remember: I'm the one who still has a scar on my arm from having rocks thrown at me by evangelicals who didn't like Mormons walking down a public street in front of their meeting place.

I'm the great grandchild of the man who ran his horse almost to death getting to Brigham Young in order to tell him that the US had sent, quite literally, half the US army to Utah in order to arrest BY and confiscate all the property belonging to the Mormons--because everybody ELSE didn't like polygamy.

It's only been about a decade since Texas invaded (with SWAT teams, snipers, tanks and dogs) the FLDS compound, hauling off ALL the women and children away in Baptist buses.

Christians (and this is ironic, because evangelical Christians HERE wouldn't acknowledge those Christians AS Christians in any other circumstances) are being beheaded in Islamic nations.

So.

Tell me why I'm 'worrying needlessly?"

I was speaking of Muslims not evangelicals.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Let me repeat. There is no need for Islamic Court in the West. There is no need for Shariah in the West.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Right, because Muslims shouldn't be allowed to voluntarily engage in religiously arbitrated settlements, like Christians, Jews and other tradition groups do, because Muslims are scary and we must otherise them as much as possible.

 

[dianaiad]

I was speaking of Muslims not evangelicals.

Er...most of the US Army Johnson sent wouldn't have been classified as such, either.

People are people, and RIGHT NOW it's Muslims who are beheading folks who disagree with them, and it is a fairly large percentage (not all, by any means, and not even a majority) of Muslims living in the USA who honestly believe that Sharia Law should be upheld over the US Constitution and US law.

And it was a Muslim group which took out the WTC, and a Muslim who killed so many soldiers....

It's not ISLAM particularly that is the problem. The problem is the people who take their personal religious (or anti-religious) opinions and violently oppose them upon others. You find them everywhere, in almost every group.

So; again, without moving the goalposts on us again, WHY exactly am I 'worrying too much?"

 

[sooda]

Er...most of the US Army Johnson sent wouldn't have been classified as such, either.

People are people, and RIGHT NOW it's Muslims who are beheading folks who disagree with them, and it is a fairly large percentage (not all, by any means, and not even a majority) of Muslims living in the USA who honestly believe that Sharia Law should be upheld over the US Constitution and US law.

And it was a Muslim group which took out the WTC, and a Muslim who killed so many soldiers....

It's not ISLAM particularly that is the problem. The problem is the people who take their personal religious (or anti-religious) opinions and violently oppose them upon others. You find them everywhere, in almost every group.

So; again, without moving the goalposts on us again, WHY exactly am I 'worrying too much?"

You make no distinction between Muslims and terrorists?

 

[dianaiad]

You make no distinction between Muslims and terrorists?

Excuse me? Are terrorists no longer terrorists if their excuse is Islam? Or is it that Muslims are no longer Muslims if they use terrorism to further their goals?

Here's the thing: don't confuse the method of imposing political and physical change upon one's culture with the reason for doing so.

Terrorism is: the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

"Terrorism" as a political tool, was first clearly identified during the 'Reign of Terror,' during the French Revolution...and those terrorists were mostly atheist. There have been Irish Catholic terrorists, Protestant Irish terrorists, communist revolutionary terrorists, all sorts. What unites them is their methods...but their MOTIVES differed hugely.

.....and when it comes right down to it, terrorism as a political tool WORKS. It changes society; look at what the WTC attacks did to us! I remember flying before 9/11. I've only flown once since then, and I probably won't fly again. I had to go through a security procedure that was unreal...middle aged me getting taken aside and given special 'pat downs' and inspections because my fake knee set off the metal detector. Now that I have TWO fake knees and a titanium rod in my arm, I really get the security people nervous.

My girls fly all the time....and EVERY time they spend at least twice as much time in the security line as they do on the actual flight...and they are only flying from LAX to SLC. The world has changed, and terrorists did it.

So terrorism works. Since we can't argue that terrorism isn't effective, we can only work with the motives FOR it....and they differ from one another as much as chalk differs from cheese. So it doesn't work to say 'terrorism is bad.' Of course it is. What we have to do is target why people are USING it.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Why do the radical Islamists behead people? Is that in the Koran?

I have faith that a more secular society would help diffuse those issues, but that can only occur naturally over many years. Prior faiths, with longer histories, most likely had even more experience with decollation, but various societies have become more secular and spiritually diffuse. That said, I probably would prefer beheading to the electric chair or lethal injection, both of those seem like that would be far more hair-raising to look forward to. Beheading seems pretty merciful, other things like impaling seem questionable, if that still occurs somewhere

 

[sooda]

Excuse me? Are terrorists no longer terrorists if their excuse is Islam?

Here's the thing: don't confuse the method of imposing political and physical change upon one's culture with the reason for doing so.

Terrorism is: the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

"Terrorism" as a political tool, was first clearly identified during the 'Reign of Terror,' during the French Revolution...and those terrorists were mostly atheist. There have been Irish Catholic terrorists, Protestant Irish terrorists, communist revolutionary terrorists, all sorts. What unites them is their methods...but their MOTIVES differed hugely.

.....and when it comes right down to it, terrorism as a political tool WORKS. It changes society; look at what the WTC attacks did to us! I remember flying before 9/11. I've only flown once since then, and I probably won't fly again. I had to go through a security procedure that was unreal...middle aged me getting taken aside and given special 'pat downs' and inspections because my fake knee set off the metal detector. Now that I have TWO fake knees and a titanium rod in my arm, I really get the security people nervous.

My girls fly all the time....and EVERY time they spend at least twice as much time in the security line as they do on the actual flight...and they are only flying from LAX to SLC. The world has changed, and terrorists did it.

So terrorism works. Since we can't argue that terrorism isn't effective, we can only work with the motives FOR it....and they differ from one another as much as chalk differs from cheese. So it doesn't work to say 'terrorism is bad.' Of course it is. What we have to do is target why people are USING it.

Terrorists kill more Muslims than Christians...

Did you concern yourself with the 50 Christian churches in Baghdad before Bush's invasion? Did you ever give a thought to the Palestinian Christians?

 

[dianaiad]

I have faith that a more secular society would help diffuse those issues, but that can only occur naturally over many years. Prior faiths, with longer histories, most likely had even more experience with decollation, but various societies have become more secular and spiritually diffuse. That said, I probably would prefer beheading to the electric chair or lethal injection, both of those seem like that would be far more hair-raising to look forward to. Beheading seems pretty merciful, other things like impaling seem questionable, if that still occurs somewhere

Secular societies which guarantee freedom of religion and speech are always better...certainly they seem to be a teeny bit more stable, anyway.

the problem is the "freedom of religion and speech" part. People don't LIKE hearing others voice opinions which differ from theirs.

What we need to remember, at least in the USA, is that the first amendment was not written to protect OUR freedom of speech and religion. It was written to protect everybody else's. If it ends up, by protecting your neighbor's right to express his religion and say whatever he thinks, that he has to respect yours in turn, well, that's the way it's supposed to work.

 

[dianaiad]

Terrorists kill more Muslims than Christians...

Did you concern yourself with the 50 Christian churches in Baghdad before Bush's invasion? Did you ever give a thought to the Palestinian Christians?

First, don't confuse terrorism with war. There's a difference. Perhaps not much of one if one is the victim, but there is one. However...

You give a list of all the terrorist groups in the world who have used that method to intimidate and change their cultures, and I'll condemn them too.

(shrug)

Like I said; we can't really address the Terrorism part, because as a political tool, it works. No terrorist is going to be shamed into NOT being a terrorist. All we can do is address the whys---and the whys differ according to the terrorist.

Either that or stop/kill them. I rather like that idea, actually.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

More disrespectful than the electric chair? Weird cultural chauvinism there.

I'm with you Landon... not sure if it's helpful, but, I think Islamic beheadings are possibly the worst of the worst...

I think swift decollation seems like it would be the most merciful way to go, and especially the guillotine looked like a pretty swift. Lethal injection and the chair seem pretty horrid, couldn't a lot go wrong? What do the injectees really feel? Those make me shudder. Beyond that though, you might have things like stoning and impaling, or crucifixion. Are those things still practiced in pockets or not? Crucifixion for example, might have extremely ancient origins in the middle-east I had read, but I don't know if that was carried over into more modern times or not... as well for impalement, which apparently may also have been ancient execution practice in different parts of the world