What is it about Islam that prompts things like this?

[Assad91]

The soldier was unarmed.

They hit him with a car then got out and started hacking at him with knives and cleavers and they had a gun.

But he was unarmed.

He was not fighting anyone.

Sounds better then phosphorus. He is lucky compared to Iraqis in Fallujah. Also better than having to live with the fear of drones. Not know when one may accidentaly fall on you because you seemed like a terrorist. Id say he is luckier than the 10000+ dead from Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[jazzymom]

To me it looks like they knew the victim well since they knew that he was a soldier.

As for what they did, like I said I can't say that it is right just as I can't say that it is wrong. I try not to form an opinion of my own when it comes to things like this because all I know is what the media says. And we all know how biased they can be.

That is the problem, not being able to form an opinion.

Right is right and wrong is wrong.

The soldier was unarmed, the 2 killers had weapons and ran into him with a car then got out and proceded to hack him to death in front of a crowd.

They did not leave the area but told the crowd they wanted to be taped and have their pictures taken.

Then one of them proceded to stand while he was videotaped talking about why they did what they did.

His hands were dripping with blood.

What happened was done in front of a crowd and well documented.

 

[jazzymom]

The man that was filmed is apparently a British-born Muslim convert, yet he is reported saying:

"I apologise that Women have had to witness this today, but in our land our Women have to see the same."

Maybe instead of attacking an innocent individual, he should've just gone back to *his* land, wherever that is.

His family came from Nigeria, and were Christian.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm sure I posted here already...*shrugs*
Yup, twice. Shoulda done it in my LOUD voice.

 

[steeltoes]

The latest from reuters....

British soldier hacked to death in suspected Islamist attack | Reuters

Im not very knowledgeable about Islam yet the latest round of violence prompts me to ask this. Is there a verse or written passage or something cultural that people use to justify themselves in doing things like this?

I know Christianity had a violent history and sometimes violence erupts in any religion but why so many people of late claiming to be Muslim are engaging in such horrific activity? It's getting to a point where one has to wonder what it is that is causing such extreme behavior and the volume of incidents of late involving Muslims.

I know the issue is complex but it seems Islam is well on the way of being one of the most hated religions in the modern era.

Many eastern countries have been invaded and occupied by western imperialist nations so it is no wonder that this happens. There is nothing to justify any of it, but I don't think it is difficult to see why this happens.

 

[Aquitaine]

Meh...I'm not justifying the attack, so please don't read this in that manner. But just for comparison, do you see the French Resistance as wrong in WW2?

Resistance against foreign troops in your own invaded country? Yeah, that's understandable. As was the French Resistance of WWII.

The only way this incident would be applicable to that situation though, would be if in the 1940's a French man emigrated to Germany and lived there for years, then one day decides to attack an off-duty German soldier (who may have simply been a truck driver) in front of everyone.

Then said violence just ends up spurring more support for military action against the French. The cycle of Violence continues.

 

[Aquitaine]

Same can be said of Iraqis, Afghanis, Yemenis, Pakistanis, Palestinians, etc. Droping bombs on civilians, is not a way to make friends.

It doesn't matter where he is, or was, or what he has done. He works for the military. His actions supports the military. He helps kill innocent civilians directly or indirectly.

Stop trying to bleat on about how every member of every "Western" Military is directly responsible for every attack on every Civilian in every Muslim country ever.
It really is just a cheap way to justify your oversimplified perspective on this issue.

As for supporting the Military, what about Help for Heroes and other Military charities? Are donors and subscribers fair game too?
What about the soldier's wife? Surely she has fed, sheltered and clothed him - Hell maybe she supported his decision to join the Army - is she fair game too?

Not surprisingly, there was another Muslim poster on RF who recently made a thread asking if Taxpayers are essentially supporting Terrorism through paying tax, some of which goes through the Military.

Are Taxpayers fair game to be butchered on the street for the actions of others?

If I became a reporter for Hamas' media, am I a target? Yes.
If I am a scientist for Iran, working on nuclear program, am I a target? Yes.
If I am Osamas water bringer, am I a target? Yes. Regardless of never picking up a weapon, or a bomb, or anything. Just being a part of the wrong groupmakes one a target regardless of what the job description is. So really, don't be blind or a hypocrite.

Assuming how many of my posts you've read, you may realise that I am indeed very critical of the Foreign Policy of my country and of the United States. I've even argued against interventions against Iran, so don't try to paint me as some one-sided Warmonger. I believe in non-intervention.

I also believe that you share the same mentality of people who believe that Palestinian civilians should be punished for the actions of a few Militants, because they're somehow supporting the Militants directly or indirectly. Essentially, you're the same as the individual who believes a Reporter for Hamas is fair game.

The cycle of violence continues.

 

[Assad91]

oversimplified? If anything you are making it more complicated then it truly is.

Face it, for soldiers, the battlefield isnt solely some foreign land.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Resistance against foreign troops in your own invaded country? Yeah, that's understandable. As was the French Resistance of WWII.

The only way this incident would be applicable to that situation though, would be if in the 1940's a French man emigrated to Germany and lived there for years, then one day decides to attack an off-duty German soldier (who may have simply been a truck driver) in front of everyone.

Then said violence just ends up spurring more support for military action against the French. The cycle of Violence continues.

I'm not trying to draw a parallel quite so closely. It would be hard to, since Germany was a country at war, and didn't have open borders. And I said earlier, I am not justifying this attack. It was wrong, and heinous.

Resistance fighters killed surrendered German soldiers in brutal fashion at times...far beyond a 'mere' execution, which is what made me think of this. IN their own minds, I suspect these killings were justified due to various German attrocities. Much like the prison camp murders at Dachau. Given they were victorious, these murders were glossed over, or moved on from pretty quickly, but it's worth noting that there is nothing particularly unique to Islamists in committing these type of attacks. I also think these people may see themselves as freedom fighters, rather than terrorists. Not how I'd describe them, but that's not the point (and I'll admit, there is a fair amount of conjecture here, but bear with me...)

I would imagine that in their minds these murderers are linking themselves to a war they probably have limited understanding of. They are associating themselves on one side, with British soldiers being on the other. They then walk the streets seeing British soldiers, etc. They then take what in their mind is a military action (ie. murdering the soldier).

I completely agree with your closing about the cycle of violence. Couple of points;

1) Rational people need to condemn this if they want progress to be made towards peace. As mentioned before, I am happy to get in a detailed discussion with anyone who thinks this attack makes any sense from a military strategy point of view.

2) Muslims need to work better at articulating the differences between radical and aggressive terrorist elements of their societies, and disaffected or resisting elements. To my mind there IS a difference between armed Iraqi militia fighting American soldiers on Iraqi soil, and these type of attacks.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Most of Islam derives from the actions of Muhammad which can range from peaceful to very violent. Most of in which is violent.
Killing slave-girls in vengeful manners along with his usage of violence. He killed many who simply opposed him including those that mocked him teasingly. Every action Muhammad did is considering acceptable of a Muslim even the bad ones.
The Qur'an itself is not violent but once rummaging through the ahadith you can easily find that Muhammad did many things deemed tyrannical by modern society.

 

[YmirGF]

Most of Islam derives from the actions of Muhammad which can range from peaceful to very violent. Most of in which is violent.
Killing slave-girls in vengeful manners along with his usage of violence. He killed many who simply opposed him including those that mocked him teasingly. Every action Muhammad did is considering acceptable of a Muslim even the bad ones.
The Qur'an itself is not violent but once rummaging through the ahadith you can easily find that Muhammad did many things deemed tyrannical by modern society.

Hence my admonition for non-Muslims to read authentic, non-apologetic Islamic sites and books. Read what they are saying and try to wrap your head around the often bizarre rationalizations. Over the last 50-100 years, since the advent of Saudi Arabia becoming an economic powerhouse, there has been an concerted effort to sanitize and whitewash Islam that you simply do not find in earlier texts. It's like there is now this strange "happy face" super-imposed on Islam where before there was no desire to mute any of the long standing teachings and traditions. Populist writers like Karen Armstrong have done a huge disservice to her non-Muslim audiences by sugar-coating Islam, making it seem acceptable to our sensitivities.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Hence my admonition for non-Muslims to read authentic, non-apologetic Islamic sites and books. Read what they are saying and try to wrap your head around the often bizarre rationalizations. Over the last 50-100 years, since the advent of Saudi Arabia becoming an economic powerhouse, there has been an concerted effort to sanitize and whitewash Islam that you simply do not find in earlier texts. It's like there is now this strange "happy face" super-imposed on Islam where before there was no desire to mute any of the long standing teachings and traditions. Populist writers like Karen Armstrong have done a huge disservice to her non-Muslim audiences by sugar-coating Islam, making it seem acceptable to our sensitivities.

The worst for me is Lesley Hazleton who had a length talk about the Qur'an. She cannot even recite to me a single ayat int he Qur'an and its nature in accordance to tafsir.
I have actually learned more about Islam as a non-Muslim then I learned as a Muslim. Whole arguments and scripture where left out in hopes of converts not loosing their faith. It is a brainwashing procedure pure and simple.
The very minute I became a Muslim the information I was receiving became increasingly disheartening.

Muslims are afraid of reform because it will make their religion loose its claim of perfection. Islam cannot survive without a theocracy or Shariyyah state to control influence.

 

[F0uad]

The worst for me is Lesley Hazleton who had a length talk about the Qur'an. She cannot even recite to me a single ayat int he Qur'an and its nature in accordance to tafsir.
I have actually learned more about Islam as a non-Muslim then I learned as a Muslim. Whole arguments and scripture where left out in hopes of converts not loosing their faith. It is a brainwashing procedure pure and simple.
The very minute I became a Muslim the information I was receiving became increasingly disheartening.

Muslims are afraid of reform because it will make their religion loose its claim of perfection. Islam cannot survive without a theocracy or Shariyyah state to control influence.

Do you know how offensive this is i am pretty sure the majority follows everything of the Sunnah and they have no problem with it. If Islam is violent i am pretty sure Muslims would not live next to Non-Muslims, i am pretty sure the oldest Jewish and Christian communities in the world would have not survived in the Islamic world, i can continue but i see no point.

 

[Assad91]

The worst for me is Lesley Hazleton who had a length talk about the Qur'an. She cannot even recite to me a single ayat int he Qur'an and its nature in accordance to tafsir.
I have actually learned more about Islam as a non-Muslim then I learned as a Muslim. Whole arguments and scripture where left out in hopes of converts not loosing their faith. It is a brainwashing procedure pure and simple.
The very minute I became a Muslim the information I was receiving became increasingly disheartening.

Muslims are afraid of reform because it will make their religion loose its claim of perfection. Islam cannot survive without a theocracy or Shariyyah state to control influence.

How can you say these things for all of Islam, when the most you know of Islam is from the extremist?

I once believed in salafi and other extremist. But upon research you find they lie. Please, you don't know anything but saudi inventions.

 

[Sha'irullah]

How can you say these things for all of Islam, when the most you know of Islam is from the extremist?

I once believed in salafi and other extremist. But upon research you find they lie. Please, you don't know anything but saudi inventions.

yes I admit to being brought up under idealistic Saudi inspired Islam. It is a growing trend now that is born of ignorance. Yes I was tricked by many Muslims who were supposed to teach me.
But what makes you think I have not retried exploring and knowing Islam? I have tried straight Islam without influence, I have even resorted to Quranist Islam and tried incorporating my own spin on it. All roads leads tot he same destination.
Sorry but this argument about the trending Wahabbi inspired Islam is not working anymore. I once believed it but now I am tired of it. I know the Qur'an and I know Islam and I know it is not what you claim it to be. Yes you are a nice person (I truly believe this) but I also know that anything which demands conformity will conform its subscribers.
I see Muslim after Muslim showing one image then turning his back and deceiving others. I have known many flavors of Muslims and over 3 years I have just lost all of the Muslims I once called trust worthy and after last week I lost my final Muslim friend I respected. I am treating this as fact until proven otherwise.

 

[F0uad]

yes I admit to being brought up under idealistic Saudi inspired Islam. It is a growing trend now that is born of ignorance. Yes I was tricked by many Muslims who were supposed to teach me.
But what makes you think I have not retried exploring and knowing Islam? I have tried straight Islam without influence, I have even resorted to Quranist Islam and tried incorporating my own spin on it. All roads leads tot he same destination.
Sorry but this argument about the trending Wahabbi inspired Islam is not working anymore. I once believed it but now I am tired of it. I know the Qur'an and I know Islam and I know it is not what you claim it to be. Yes you are a nice person (I truly believe this) but I also know that anything which demands conformity will conform its subscribers.
I see Muslim after Muslim showing one image then turning his back and deceiving others. I am treating this as fact until proven otherwise

How is this relevant to anything the OP or the points you raised earlier?

In any religion, ideology, political party or whatever people miss-use it and twist things around... So because Islam has some different sects therefore its violent or not correct? What is this kind of nonsense and i really doubt your knowledge about the Quran and Islam.

 

[Sha'irullah]

How is this relevant to anything the OP or the points you raised earlier?

In any religion, ideology, political party or whatever people miss-use it and twist things around... So because Islam has some different sects therefore its violent or not correct? What is this kind of nonsense and i really doubt your knowledge about the Quran and Islam.

You ever wonder why when one goes to their local masjid and gets papers that have portions of the Qur'an or information regarding narrations why only the paper is given? It is called an "edited fact". I am given a paper which has only portion of various hadith, tafsir references and Qur'anic verses. But some of the most vital parts are removed. For example the argument of Muhammad being possessed by jinn, never brought up or taught to me and I was totally reliant on being taught these things.

Why is it that the only way to learn about Islam is to never learn it from a Muslim? All of the negativity is entirely erased when one is given the perspective of Islam from one's local imam.

 

[Windwalker]

Same can be said of Iraqis, Afghanis, Yemenis, Pakistanis, Palestinians, etc. Droping bombs on civilians, is not a way to make friends.

It doesn't matter where he is, or was, or what he has done. He works for the military. His actions supports the military. He helps kill innocent civilians directly or indirectly.

If I became a reporter for Hamas' media, am I a target? Yes.
If I am a scientist for Iran, working on nuclear program, am I a target? Yes.
If I am Osamas water bringer, am I a target? Yes. Regardless of never picking up a weapon, or a bomb, or anything. Just being a part of the wrong groupmakes one a target regardless of what the job description is. So really, don't be blind or a hypocrite.

Congratulations. You have just justified murdering civilians. We all pay taxes which go to support the military.

Rather than try to draw the line who is OK to murder in the name of God, why don't you remove murdering one another from being justified by God altogether? Doesn't your religion teach peace? Why not turn to it to justify the reasons for peace instead?

Let's cut to the chase here. Be honest, religion is a tool of politics. God has squat to do with this.

 

[Assad91]

Congratulations. You have just justified murdering civilians. We all pay taxes which go to support the military.
.

No, not really. Unless, where you're from, you pay taxes voluntary

 

[Assad91]

You ever wonder why when one goes to their local masjid and gets papers that have portions of the Qur'an or information regarding narrations why only the paper is given? It is called an "edited fact". I am given a paper which has only portion of various hadith, tafsir references and Qur'anic verses. But some of the most vital parts are removed. For example the argument of Muhammad being possessed by jinn, never brought up or taught to me and I was totally reliant on being taught these things.

Why is it that the only way to learn about Islam is to never learn it from a Muslim? All of the negativity is entirely erased when one is given the perspective of Islam from one's local imam.

You expected to learn anti-islamic arguments at your masjid? Why? As for recieving papers, you can always open a Quran on your own and see everything. Your argument is nonsense.