What is it about Islam that prompts things like this?

[lewisnotmiller]

I am not sure of that- it's not that I don't agree, I just really don't know.

Granted, anything we read, watch on TV, practice, etc. is bound to influence us in some way. To say that my faith doesn't influence me in some way would be wrong because it does in a lot of ways. But my faith never actually changed my personality. I am a totally non-violent person and I just don't see how anything would change that. If some person of my faith told me to do violence because he or she believed that the scriptures told him it was right, I would question that. If someone of my faith told me I had to hate someone because God said so, I wouldn't be able to do it. Hatred is not anything I feel for anyone. The strongest emotion for me is anger- sometimes strong anger, but never hatred.

Yup...fair enough, and you make some good points. But I guess that's where I'd point back to my first post, where I mumbled something about it being a rallying call for the disaffected.

My basic premise is this...
Religion changes behaviour. Simplest example is you might pray, as opposed to not. Or you go to Church. Or whatever. Could be good, bad or entirely subjective.

You, specifically, would still apply your basic morals to this. If your basic moral stance is to say 'I will not conduct violence' then becoming religious will not effect that. You would be more likely to reject the religion, if anything.

Imagine if you were raised in an environment that desensitized you to violence. Or that the morals you were raised with were that doing violence to those outside the group is morally acceptable. Religions are, at the end of the day, people. Sure, people will argue that they are divinely inspired, etc, but I'm not here arguing about faith. People can convince other people to do things. Look at the hate exhibited by kids brought up in the WBC if you want an example closer to home.

I am not picking on one religion, or suggesting that religion (overall) promotes violence, or anything like that. I'm merely suggesting that religion drives behavioural change. Therefore, I can see where some religions would encourage more aggressive behaviour. Just as I could see that some would encourage less aggressive behaviour.

(in your case, more aggressive behaviour might mean writing more sternly worded letters to the editor of a newspaper...that's kinda where I'd head...I'm a pacifist too, pretty much...lol)

 

[YmirGF]

I'd advise you to read my posts again

I have read it and know what you meant. There are all kinds of verses in the Qur'an that Extremist Muslims can use to condone their bad behavior - if one spins them out of context. Part of the problem with the Qur'an being believed to be the literal word of god is that some folks take the words literally.

 

[Assad91]

I have read it and know what you meant. There are all kinds of verses in the Qur'an that Extremist Muslims can use to condone their bad behavior - if one spins them out of context. Part of the problem with the Qur'an being believed to be the literal word of god is that some folks take the words literally.

Regardless of being literal, the same verse which says to attack in the same way as they attack, mentions not transgressing the limits. Put that next to hadith with the prohibition of killing women, children and elderly, on top of the prohibition of killing innocents, its clear we are to be more nobile and above harming innocents. But then extremist make loops around this.

When one realizes us Muslims are like Jews, Christians, etc who have internal disputes over rules, than the better things will be.

 

[apophenia]

Regardless of being literal, the same verse which says to attack in the same way as they attack, mentions not transgressing the limits. Put that next to hadith with the prohibition of killing women, children and elderly, on top of the prohibition of killing innocents, its clear we are to be more nobile and above harming innocents. But then extremist make loops around this.

When one realizes us Muslims are like Jews, Christians, etc who have internal disputes over rules, than the better things will be.

These murders were of soldiers. The reason given was that there is a war between Islam and Britain, presumably because Britain has been part of the coalition with the US in Middle East wars.

So according to the quran have these guys transgressed the limits or not ?

How open to interpretation is this ? Obviously the murderers consider that they are interpreting the quran correctly - they are murdering British soldiers in the street in Britain because British soldiers have killed muslims in their countries.

So is that justifiable according to quran in your opinion, or in the opinion of muslims you talk to ?

 

[F0uad]

The latest from reuters....

British soldier hacked to death in suspected Islamist attack | Reuters

Im not very knowledgeable about Islam yet the latest round of violence prompts me to ask this. Is there a verse or written passage or something cultural that people use to justify themselves in doing things like this?

I know Christianity had a violent history and sometimes violence erupts in any religion but why so many people of late claiming to be Muslim are engaging in such horrific activity? It's getting to a point where one has to wonder what it is that is causing such extreme behavior and the volume of incidents of late involving Muslims.

I know the issue is complex but it seems Islam is well on the way of being one of the most hated religions in the modern era.

You should ask the person why he did it, hes answer was that this happens daily were Western Forces are killing innocent Muslims.
I think he tried to wake up and send out a message to people in a disgusting way, i condemn hes actions like i condemn the Americans and Brits who invade and kill other people.

 

[Vouthon]

The people who did this abominable act to that poor young man were nothing but cowardly sociopaths lacking in empathy. They knocked him down first with a car and as the poor innocent soul was lying there hacked him to pieces with meat-cleavers. They then encouraged people to film it to send out a so-called "message". They then cut off the young man's head. I cannot imagine the pain he must have went through.

It is a barbaric and medieval form of slaughter that probably has not been seen on London's street since the 1500s.

It is one of the most vile acts of murder I have ever heard of.

To kill in the name of God is the greatest blasphemy possible to God. No person is deserving of such evil directed towards them. Nothing warrants this.

One of the killers invoked the principle of "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth". A literal interpretation of such phrases with an extremist, fundamentalist ideology and a warped sense of belonging to countries the individuals had probably never been in rather than compassion for their own fellow citizens, is the reason for this murder.

It is born from an "us vs them" mentality, an exclusivist view of the world that separates human beings in one's own religious group from those outside and demonizes those outside one's own group.

It is born from the belief that ideas are more important than human lives. Human life can never be subordinated to any idea or ideology.

There needs to be a universal consensus that killing in the name of God or religion is the greatest blasphemy.

 

[Aquitaine]

The man that was filmed is apparently a British-born Muslim convert, yet he is reported saying:

"I apologise that Women have had to witness this today, but in our land our Women have to see the same."

Maybe instead of attacking an innocent individual, he should've just gone back to *his* land, wherever that is.

 

[Titanic]

Maybe I was wrong about islam. Every Religion has it's hater's. So why is islam a bad religion exactly?

 

[YmirGF]

Maybe I was wrong about islam. Every Religion has it's hater's. So why is islam a bad religion exactly?

I always implore people to read about Islam from authentic Muslim sources. DO NOT read sources like Karen Armstrong as she will give you a highly sanitized version. Go for the extra strength, unapologetic sources. If you still have questions about this after studying the issue for a decade, drop me a line.

 

[Titanic]

I always implore people to read about Islam from authentic Muslim sources. DO NOT read sources like Karen Armstrong as she will give you a highly sanitized version. Go for the extra strength, unapologetic sources. If you still have questions about this after studying the issue for a decade, drop me a line.

About two decades!!!!! I do not think islam is a bad religion, i just do not agree with it.

 

[YmirGF]

About two decades!!!!! I do not think islam is a bad religion, i just do not agree with it.

Hehe. I wouldn't say any religion is "bad", per se, though a couple do come close (Scientology, for one). I find the overall psychology behind Islam to be... troubling.

 

[jazzymom]

It has to do with a few things. Saudi Arabia using its wealth to push their ideology, and the wars being waged in Muslim countries.

Do you realize what has happened and is happening? Are people really blind in regards to the imperialistic natures of western countries?

As for KSA, USA gives money for oil, the money is used to push their ideology, which fuels for justification of violence towards muslims.

Hog wash.

There is no justification, nada!

 

[Assad91]

Hog wash.

There is no justification, nada!

Irony is, you most likely approve of bombing neigborhoods because of hamas talk of hog wash

 

[Pastek]

The latest from reuters....

British soldier hacked to death in suspected Islamist attack | Reuters

Im not very knowledgeable about Islam yet the latest round of violence prompts me to ask this. Is there a verse or written passage or something cultural that people use to justify themselves in doing things like this?

Of course not. Who would accepted a religion of violence and injustice ?

I know Christianity had a violent history and sometimes violence erupts in any religion but why so many people of late claiming to be Muslim are engaging in such horrific activity? It's getting to a point where one has to wonder what it is that is causing such extreme behavior and the volume of incidents of late involving Muslims.

I know the issue is complex but it seems Islam is well on the way of being one of the most hated religions in the modern era.

In that case it seems to be fanatics. For what i saw on the video, the guy seems crazy or maybe on drugs.

 

[Gharib]

Im not very knowledgeable about Islam yet the latest round of violence prompts me to ask this. Is there a verse or written passage or something cultural that people use to justify themselves in doing things like this?

I think it's called justice for the killing of innocent women and children in the middle east. If you read carefully they didn't do anything to anyone who wasn't part of the army. Instead they killed a soldier who most probably had taken part in the middle east since they knew him well enough to recognize that he was a soldier.

I'm not saying that it was the right thing to do or that it was the wrong thing to do, I'm just saying that's what their reasoning might be.

 

[Gharib]

And does anyone have any clue why Islam and it's adherents have become so 'violent' and 'evil' in the last few decades?

I mean, if Islam was evil or violent then surely those before us would have been just as evil as this generation but you don't hear anything about Muslims killing anyone from any country.

Does anyone have any idea why that is?

 

[England my lionheart]

The latest from reuters....

British soldier hacked to death in suspected Islamist attack | Reuters

Im not very knowledgeable about Islam yet the latest round of violence prompts me to ask this. Is there a verse or written passage or something cultural that people use to justify themselves in doing things like this?

I know Christianity had a violent history and sometimes violence erupts in any religion but why so many people of late claiming to be Muslim are engaging in such horrific activity? It's getting to a point where one has to wonder what it is that is causing such extreme behavior and the volume of incidents of late involving Muslims.

I know the issue is complex but it seems Islam is well on the way of being one of the most hated religions in the modern era.

The followers of Islam are as diverse as those who follow Christianity,i think what we are seeing in this attack is the product of an Islam that grew from the pens of Hassan Al Banna and Sayyid Qutb,as a Muslim,if you live under the law of any governance other than that of the Qur'an you are kuffar and an enemy of the Ummah,thankfully people who think this way are a minority.

 

[Falvlun]

I think this makes a lot of sense. However, there is a group dynamic at work through a shared world view. People should always accept personal responsibility. Otherwise you end up with the 'I was just following orders' justification. And people discussing ANY large group have to understand that the group is made up of individuals, with differences.

However, without pointing the finger at ANY religion, it's pretty easy to prove that religions result in behavioural change (for better, worse, or just different). It is one of their stated purposes. That being the case, it makes logical sense that some religions could promote more passive behaviour than the norm and others can promote more aggressive behaviour than the norm.

This, I think, captures the picture of human behavior rather well.

 

[Philomath]

I think it's called justice for the killing of innocent women and children in the middle east. If you read carefully they didn't do anything to anyone who wasn't part of the army. Instead they killed a soldier who most probably had taken part in the middle east since they knew him well enough to recognize that he was a soldier.

I'm not saying that it was the right thing to do or that it was the wrong thing to do, I'm just saying that's what their reasoning might be.

Oh yes...violence begets more violence. Did they have any proof of his participation in the killing of innocent muslims? Even if they did they had no right to circumvent the law and brutally kill a man in the middle of the street. These barbaric actions only cause more scorn towards them and their goal.

 

[Gharib]

Oh yes...violence begets more violence. Did they have any proof of his participation in the killing of innocent muslims? Even if they did they had no right to circumvent the law and brutally kill a man in the middle of the street. These barbaric actions only cause more scorn towards them and their goal.

To me it looks like they knew the victim well since they knew that he was a soldier.

As for what they did, like I said I can't say that it is right just as I can't say that it is wrong. I try not to form an opinion of my own when it comes to things like this because all I know is what the media says. And we all know how biased they can be.