John 18:37
"You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."
Like this one, Jesus answered Pilate that He will testify the truth, now do I need to interpret this as non-absolute truth?
It is interesting to me reading your responses how that what I explain in clear and articulate detail escapes you. It is what I said at the outset, that where you are at, you are currently incapable of understanding different ways of thinking. Anything that seems 'foreign' to how you see and perceive the world, and how you interpret everything through that perception, that mode of thought, is seen by you are "wrong", a "deception", "of the devil", etc, etc, etc. All of this is a reflection of how you think and perceive, not a reflection of reality as a whole.
I do not accept your reality as God's view of reality. And nor do I accept mine as God's view of reality either. This is something you cannot grasp yet. I does not compute, does not fit into the triangles and squares of reality that you model it as, and you therefore see it as a foreign body and expel it. If anything from the Bible that would be some help to anyone in such a state of mind, it is that of humility. You most certainly do not show that to your brother in judging them wrong and yourself right.
From my perspective, I see a child who is trying to piece together a view of reality for himself seizing upon scripture to try to build it nice and tight and firm for himself, and is reacting to anyone who has a different view than him as a threat to this tower he has built, reinforcing and justifying himself by becoming a self-proclaimed holy crusader slaying others in the name of his God. It's sad in so many ways.
So to your point above about Jesus as a Dictator, I don't accept that image of Christ. One wonders if you grew up under or near those who lived under dictatorships? The image of Christ I hear from scripture is that of the Good Shepherd. "My sheep hear my voice, and they follow me". That's a very different image that one laying down the law with the power of state to execute those who do not comply with his authoritarian rule. Your image of Christ is that, and not one of the Good Shepherd. It is evident in everything you say in this post, clearly. And in looking back at everything else it is clear as well. This is a major watershed point in our thinking and in how either of envision God.
Not only do I not see Christ as Dictator in scripture, my very experiences of God says something completely different than that. There is nothing but Grace. It is a pull from Spirit, through Grace, towards Truth itself. It is not a push down from a Dictator imposing views and beliefs on others. Your view of Christ and God is the latter; a push down, or a ram down from above imposing ideas and beliefs and views and actions on others. My experiences, and my understanding from scripture, speaks in terms of hearing the voice of God gently calling, never imposing, but encouraging and supporting one to become who we are meant to be in Christ.
Those who choose to go that path are met with the support of Spirit, abundantly. It is my experience through meditation practices, that Spirit never imposes itself upon you, ever. To use a metaphor, it simply waits for you to be done doing whatever it is you are doing to distract yourself, to avoid Him. But when you realize what you are doing, perhaps through a gentle nudge, as it were, and you turn your gaze that direction, the response is an overwhelming flood of Love and Power and Light flooding your soul, overwhelming at time, to the point you have to hold back to what you can handle.
Seriously, it is like this all the time. That is the nature of Spirit. It is always present, but never imposing, never dictating, never demanding, never threatening, never punishing. It is us who punish ourselves, through our culturally and self-imposed guilt and shame.
Likewise if you choose to go it your own way, trying to find God by becoming uber religious and zealous like Saul, persecuting others who find God a different way than you, seeking to correct their doctrines and beliefs, etc, you are allowed to go that course up to the point the urge of Spirit outweighs the self-seeking through religious zealotry, like Saul, and you open that door to a better way. And like in my experiences, the second you let down the shields of ego, ones we hold up with the name "religion" emblazoned upon them to hide our own self-reflection from ourselves, we are met with an overwhelming response of the acceptance of God. At such a state, at such a moment, we no longer see others as "the enemy of God" as we judged them ourselves - as you are doing to us, but we become utterly humbled before that Light, and see others as God see them, with Grace and Love, and not with our own judgements of what we think God's law is for others. I see a striking comparison here.
The words of Jesus is easily understandable even a kid can comprehend.
And an adult with more experience understandings quite differently, in far more nuanced ways than a kid does. This is underscoring my point again.
Who dictate the truth if not God?
You will, apparently.
Who is above God to become an absolute truth?
Never once I have said "an absolute truth". I only and ever say "the Absolute", or "Truth", etc. It is unqualifiable. There is not truth that our minds can comprehend that anyone can claim as "an absolute". Everything our mind understands is filtered through relative contexts. It is never freed from that. This is something you fail to understand and continue to
simply repeat your beliefs that do not address this fact.
I don't think man's thinking is higher than God's thinking.
With this I agree. However, you seem to believe it is because you keep trying to tell as your thoughts as if they were God's. Remember, YOU interpret scripture, and YOU are speaking your thoughts as they come to you. I don't hear God saying what you say he is. So you should take your advise and not do that anymore.
Man is like sand in God's eyes, the planets are like marbles to Him. God is big and you cannot measure the vastness of His creation.
"Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care."
Out of curiosity since you speaking of God in terms of dimensions, do you believe God is outside of creation, within creation, or both?
One example again is what I'm doing as demons-slayer (as you said)
, I like that term you tagged on me.
Well, you're actually not casting out demons. You're persecuting others who believe differently than you, calling them demons in the same way the Pharisees said Jesus had a demon because his teachings threatened theirs in their eyes. If you were actually taking the injunction to, "drive out demons," you would be doing so by practicing modern psychology, not by being a witch-doctor. Although, as I said before, even witch-doctors have an effect on others through the power of suggestion. It's all means and ways to the subconscious mind.
I'm just suggesting if you
truly want to help others who have sickness of the mind or body, then seek a modern education and learn the arts of healing, rather than using this business of "
demon-slaying" to "rebuke" those who don't believe like you do. That's not about healing. That's about your ego. That's about being right. That's about self-justification.
Then there is reality; when there is reality, there is truth. How can you say A, when in reality is A1, it cannot be. It is like saying an oil can mix with water, but the truth is, it is not. Now, your context of relative truth as not accepting it, but you modernize it in another perspective, that oil can somehow mix with water in the future/or by technology means. This is how I see it.
In application to spiritual, how can the Scripture that Jesus stated will be converted into non-absolute truth? Maybe, you're thinking it is due to several interpretations made by different theologians. Yes, I accept it, but there is reality (as you mentioned), the truth, the real meaning, the core, and what we called as "standard." When Jesus said
"if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell." Did Jesus really said it literally, then you may see Christian that are blinded. But the true interpretation is to resist ourselves from sinning, that is the true interpretation, not coming from me but from the Bible. That is reality and the truth.
You didn't follow a thing I said. Rather than me spend time finding a new way to open your mind to this understanding, I suggest you go back and spend more time reading and processing what I wrote. It's reaching a point where it may prove futile to continue attempt to explain when you seem incapable of understanding these very basic concepts of the nature of relative and absolute truth. I may try a different approach later, but I tend to see it more for the benefit of others who can at least somewhat grasp this basic understanding.
Yes the words guide me, and I accept the truth. If you would'nt like to be dictated by Jesus, then you have an excuse that you did not follow Him. Windwalker, it is submission.
My understanding is different than yours what submission to the will of God means. I know, I know, I'm not believing God because I think differently than you.
This is the term that I would like to say to you. We don't like to be dictated by our own boss, because we have our rights; but because you are employed, and they compensated you, therefore you should submit to your superior. For God, we could not do the same thing; the first thing that Jesus is looking to His disciples is their heart and commitment to follow Him. That is full submission. The offer of salvation to come to Him is not forced, but waiting his people to come to Him.
Well, yes it is forced if you think of God they way you do. It's like putting a gun to someone's head and saying, "You have a freewill choice here to love me and obey me, or to not. I'm not forcing you here, but do understand if I put a bullet in your head it's your choice to die." A boss can fire you from your job. But God is not our employer. He is our "Heavenly Father", "Abba" or "Daddy" as Jesus called Him. That is a
love relationship, not an employment contract!
I do not see my boss as my father. My father would never disown me. Would yours you?
I find it very revealing, very telling how you see God as 1) Dictator, 2) Employer. I'll continue to point these out as they emerge from what you say in how you envision God. AGAIN, these images of God you hold, that you begin with, taints everything you read in scripture through that lens. It is what you mind is allowing you to, colorizing it to fit within that framework. You simply do not see this yet. To you, your mind reflects reality itself. But "God's thoughts are higher than you own". I suggest you maybe do what we do, and set aside what we "think" about God and let God speak.
Like a drip of water on a hard stone, eventually the repetition wears a groove in it.
Ohh. I remember something, and it flashback to me. I used to join a seminar how to be prosperous in everything a long time ago. I attended and discovered that the speaker was a mind master. He taught us to use the power of our minds to be prosperous. Truly it happened to him, it is our choice if we did not follow him. Lately, I discovered that this is a "new thought" seminar. To be dependent with our mind as the tool of magical success. This is the same as you describe as finding the truth in ourselves, seeking what your mind can achieve, and what is around you has to offer.
And once again, the Strawman argument comes out. No one in this discussion believes or teaches that contemplative practice is us trying to do this through our own power of the mind. It is the exact opposite of what lies you continue to make us to be saying and engaging in. In lieu of an actual argument, make one up and argue with that! Does this
unbiblical practice ever end with you?
What you are saying is bearing false witness against us. I've pointed this out before, but you continue to persist in this. This is a lie. We have addressed it countless times, you ignore what is said the truth of it is, and continue to say what it is not to us. I don't see resorting to lies to doing the work of God, do you? Since you are a fan of demonology, who is the Father of Lies in that hierarchy, and whose lead are you following? Be careful in your casting stones at others... "for with what judgement you judge, it will be meeted back to you".
Now, address what we actually say, and actually practice, rather than continuing to state falsehoods like this. The fact you are not arguing with us, show it is not us you oppose, but an imagined enemy of your own mind, your own demon, as it were. It's not us. End of story.
I'll leave it at this, as it's all just repeating the same things.....
