What happened to rock music as a revolutionary force?

[Shadow Wolf]

The commercialization (and therefore distribution) of music took a turn in the 1990's that it hasn't recovered from. I think many see it as a great thing. No more middle men needed in getting directly to the music that people really enjoy listening to. But now, no longer much promotions being done, except for a very select few.

The problem is these middle men, today and even as far back as the 70s, for most part only know what crap is. The bulk majority is only know how to find crap - easy replaceable interchangeable junk that sells because it's what their giving to people, and because it takes no real talent to perform most mainstream music; Pretty young teenaged boys, busty blondes and people who don't need to learn more than the basics to play their instrument are much easier to replace than singers who don't need auto tune and those who have a background in music theory and classic composition. One of the reasons I love Scandinavian metal is that so many of them from that area, when they aren't playing Beethoven, Bach, and Wagner with an orchestra their playing on guitars while wearing lots of black while pretending to worship the devil. But, Opera too is known for dramatic flares of appearance. Many of those level of artists though, they aren't nearly as wealthy as the easily replaceable and they do often work some sort of regular job, often in a music shop and offering lessons.

Rock was more successful than the proponents of the genre ever dared to dream. Rock then became mainstream. R.I.P.

I think it may just be because the hippy, counter/drug-culture, free love generation brought the music they loved with them on their revolution, and it was taken from them by the record companies, and turned into a synthesized and formalized drone.
At least some of my music scares many away because you don't have to play it backwards to hear "hail satan," the riffs are intense and vocals of bestial roars, and images that are dark and somber.
One thing I have wondered for awhile, since Till from Rammstein is very easy to understand, I have wondered how they would have fared if all their songs were in English, and translations that were what he sang in German rather than being quite different. And the sound of his voice while he's singing about some of the most twisted and depraved things ever, it would probably bother people in America.

 

[psychoslice]

Autotune has taken over.

 

[YmirGF]

At least some of my music scares many away because you don't have to play it backwards to hear "hail satan," the riffs are intense and vocals of bestial roars, and images that are dark and somber.
One thing I have wondered for awhile, since Till from Rammstein is very easy to understand, I have wondered how they would have fared if all their songs were in English, and translations that were what he sang in German rather than being quite different. And the sound of his voice while he's singing about some of the most twisted and depraved things ever, it would probably bother people in America.

I often used to quip to people that I never had a problem getting a seat on the bus as I'd just start singing a song by Marilyn Manson and strangely, everyone would begin to clear away, especially when I began swinging from the hand rails while looking menacing in my business suit. It was all in the vocals, really... Beautiful People never let me down.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I often used to quip to people that I never had a problem getting a seat on the bus as I'd just start singing a song by Marilyn Manson and strangely, everyone would begin to clear away, especially when I began swinging from the hand rails while looking menacing in my business suit. It was all in the vocals, really... Beautiful People never let me down.

LOL! I probably know just the lyric from that song makes them move:
"There's no time to discriminate
Hate every mother****er that's in your way"

The swinging from the hand rails thing is appropriate, too, because of the ape reference in it. You're a true Mansonite.

 

[David1967]

I thought rock was dead until I discovered these guys

Wow. Maybe there is hope.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I thought rock was dead until I discovered these guys

I tried to get into Ghost, but it didn't work out. I find them boring. I only really like that one song they did about Bathory. I can appreciate what they're doing, though.

 

[David1967]

*shrug* If you dismiss the band before giving it a fair listen, then it's your loss. Despite first impressions from appearance, their sound is more influenced by King Diamond, Pink Floyd, Blue Oyster Cult, and The Beatles than it is your typical death metal.

I like the fact that they have an actual vocalist that doesn't sound like cookie monster. A definite improvement on this style.

 

[Acim]

The problem is these middle men, today and even as far back as the 70s, for most part only know what crap is. The bulk majority is only know how to find crap - easy replaceable interchangeable junk that sells because it's what their giving to people, and because it takes no real talent to perform most mainstream music; Pretty young teenaged boys, busty blondes and people who don't need to learn more than the basics to play their instrument are much easier to replace than singers who don't need auto tune and those who have a background in music theory and classic composition. One of the reasons I love Scandinavian metal is that so many of them from that area, when they aren't playing Beethoven, Bach, and Wagner with an orchestra their playing on guitars while wearing lots of black while pretending to worship the devil. But, Opera too is known for dramatic flares of appearance. Many of those level of artists though, they aren't nearly as wealthy as the easily replaceable and they do often work some sort of regular job, often in a music shop and offering lessons.

But this is true with many jobs, where you get some things right and other things you are far off base on. Pop music of some sort has existed for a long time. I would say in about the last 30 years, there aren't vastly different genres of music being established. New stuff is always being tried, being found, but I don't think something like emergence of hip hop or death metal is occurring in the last 30 years. Even death metal would be a stretch for the point I'm making.

When the middle men were correct, they built rock gods. Many examples of these over the last 60 years. Very few of those are likely being found in the last 15 to 20 years. Nirvana is arguably one of the last.

What I see happening is whatever was happening with pop in the 80's, is essentially the only thing that is hyped now because 12 to 25 year olds will tune into what is being hyped (by the same type of middle men). Musicians are still experimenting, still reaching new areas, still reaching levels of supreme talent, but none of that is being hyped/promoted all that much. If it goes viral, sure, how it can it not then by hyped? But back before 1995-ish, it didn't take one wit wonder to get hyped. Otherwise a band like King Crimson would never have been as established as they were. While not overly hyped (thank God), they still saw a long career from middle men bold enough to keep promoting them in the way they did, and in an environment (or era) where possible fans/potential consumers didn't just ripoff artists because of those 'greedy middle men.'

With the attitude most fans of music have nowadays, I don't think we can ever go back to what was. In some ways it is liberating, but in other ways, the hype is missed. Entities like Jim Morrison, Hendrix, Lennon to name a few out of possibly hundreds, if not thousands, will IMO no longer exist on the music scene.

(Almost put Parliament and Prince on that list, but that's when I realized the list could easily be hundreds deep.)

((Just happy I was able to work in the concept of 'gods' into a tangential subject on a religious forum.))

 

[Acim]

I often used to quip to people that I never had a problem getting a seat on the bus as I'd just start singing a song by Marilyn Manson and strangely, everyone would begin to clear away, especially when I began swinging from the hand rails while looking menacing in my business suit. It was all in the vocals, really... Beautiful People never let me down.

Took me awhile to appreciate MM, but when I heard the linked song below, it had me exploring and discovering what I was missing out on.

I tend to like a lot of music.

 

[Jumi]

Netflix, social media, smart phones and MMOs happened.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When the middle men were correct, they built rock gods. Many examples of these over the last 60 years. Very few of those are likely being found in the last 15 to 20 years. Nirvana is arguably one of the last.

They don't make gods, they only build up people who want the rock star life without the rock star ability. You do have some innovators who make it far, such as Zeppelin, Sabbath, or AC/DC, some musical geniuses that achieve great fame, such as Tool, Nine Inch Nails, and Marilyn Manson, and some make it just because they are exceptionally good at what they do, like Micheal Jackson, Rammstein, or Opeth. And while some truly gifted musicians do make it far, Flea, Les Claypool, or Trent Reznor, but barely get any notice despite being worthy of the title of virtuoso, like Yngwvie Malmsteen, Buckethead, or even the many much smaller bands and artists who can't even catch that much attention.

 

[Acim]

They don't make gods, they only build up people who want the rock star life without the rock star ability. You do have some innovators who make it far, such as Zeppelin, Sabbath, or AC/DC, some musical geniuses that achieve great fame, such as Tool, Nine Inch Nails, and Marilyn Manson, and some make it just because they are exceptionally good at what they do, like Micheal Jackson, Rammstein, or Opeth. And while some truly gifted musicians do make it far, Flea, Les Claypool, or Trent Reznor, but barely get any notice despite being worthy of the title of virtuoso, like Yngwvie Malmsteen, Buckethead, or even the many much smaller bands and artists who can't even catch that much attention.

I see it as building rock gods. None of which exist today, or if they do are not hyped up. Like comparing well known world religion to another religion on the planet that has a mere 5 million devotees. I can recall many of claims of: Clapton is God, or Jerry (Garcia) is God, or another rock legend saying they were more popular, longer lasting in the current culture than Jesus.

Of course this doesn't necessarily (or I would say obviously) make them God, but by one of the definitions of the dictionary, it surely does put them in that category.

I was commenting last night with friends that I feel one thing about getting older is the message in music no longer strongly resonates with me. IOW, what's hyped up now is not something I would gravitate towards. But if I do some digging around or go with recommendations and truly give them a good listen, I'll find messages that are the same or very similar, but then wonder why is this not more popular based on message alone. And I think it is the lack of promotions (factor) and/or the industry changing so dramatically as just about every fan/consumer I know of (including me) would rather get music for free now than purchase own copy. I'll still buy music today, but compared to 25 years ago it is noticeably and significantly less.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The youth of today are too busy staring at little screens and worrying about "safe spaces" to drive any sort of cultural rebellion that spawns good rock music. Rebellion has been reduced to whining and music has followed suit in its blandness.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I see it as building rock gods.

Poison, Ratt, Motley Crew, Kiss, they were built up but they are not rock gods. AC/DC are rock gods. Lemmy was a rock god. I agree that Clapton is a god, and so was Hendrix. But I can go on page-after-page of cheap bands who reached the heavens but have not an ounce of talent or decent stage personality and presence.

None of which exist today, or if they do are not hyped up.

They do exist. They just don't get the attention, and they tend to not be the easily replaced "babble babble ***** *****" type of crap that Manson sings about in This is the New ****.

And I think it is the lack of promotions (factor) and/or the industry changing so dramatically as just about every fan/consumer I know of (including me) would rather get music for free now than purchase own copy.

There is an entire world of music that you may-or-may-not get for free. Some artists give a few songs or even albums for free, but even if they do or don't you most likely won't be able to pirate their music just because there aren't enough people with their albums on their devices to share them. Sometimes you even have to buy them directly from the band.

 

[Acim]

Poison, Ratt, Motley Crew, Kiss, they were built up but they are not rock gods. AC/DC are rock gods. Lemmy was a rock god. I agree that Clapton is a god, and so was Hendrix. But I can go on page-after-page of cheap bands who reached the heavens but have not an ounce of talent or decent stage personality and presence.

But it kind of comes down to personal preference. I've never seen Clapton as premium guitarist, therefore not rock god to me. Even more evidence of it being preference is quote of Clapton being asked how it feels to be the greatest guitar player ever, and his reply is, I dunno, why not ask Prince that question.

I've never supported discussions of 'not an ounce of talent' and as long as that's your position, we might not have much to discuss. But will note that glam metal was not something I ever got into, though there are songs from that era I like and do respect the talent. Seems to me around that time is when the hype factor was at is peak, though disco comes pretty close.

They do exist. They just don't get the attention, and they tend to not be the easily replaced "babble babble ***** *****" type of crap that Manson sings about in This is the New ****.

I grant they exist, but they aren't known, or well known to exist. Is something like the other discussion on the forums about certain gods existing, but are not as well known, therefore are more easily dismissed as they don't have dozens of people rushing into to define and defend their existence.

There is an entire world of music that you may-or-may-not get for free. Some artists give a few songs or even albums for free, but even if they do or don't you most likely won't be able to pirate their music just because there aren't enough people with their albums on their devices to share them. Sometimes you even have to buy them directly from the band.

There is not a band/music artist alive today who's music cannot be pirated. That was true 30 years ago. What's changed is the technology or ease of pirating along with consumer attitude toward 'sharing' music.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is not a band/music artist alive today who's music cannot be pirated.

You need to look harder then. I've got plenty of albums and demos that you won't find over any P2P server.

 

[Acim]

You need to look harder then. I've got plenty of albums and demos that you won't find over any P2P server.

How would I find them then? I'm saying anything that can be shared, can be stolen (in which I get a copy and artist sees no money from that transaction).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How would I find them then? I'm saying anything that can be shared, can be stolen (in which I get a copy and artist sees no money from that transaction).

Technically true, but there are many bands who just aren't big enough names to have enough people stealing their stuff to make it more widely available, such as over P2P networks. You're more likely to find their stuff of MySpace.
And how to you find them? Go to local shows. Search Youtube and other places for unsigned bands (Last.fm used to be great with featuring unsigned and small record bands). Look up record companies that are in the area. Tattoo parlors, in my experience, are also good places to learn about the non-big label bands. There are really some amazing talents out there, some of them with just a taste of getting their name out there, and many who don't have what major labels are looking for, but they nevertheless have the skills, talent, and dedication. Comedy bands, for example, tend to not get much attention, even though there are some really good ones. Weird Al is really one of the very few exceptions exception.

 

[Acim]

Technically true, but there are many bands who just aren't big enough names to have enough people stealing their stuff to make it more widely available, such as over P2P networks. You're more likely to find their stuff of MySpace.
And how to you find them? Go to local shows. Search Youtube and other places for unsigned bands (Last.fm used to be great with featuring unsigned and small record bands). Look up record companies that are in the area. Tattoo parlors, in my experience, are also good places to learn about the non-big label bands. There are really some amazing talents out there, some of them with just a taste of getting their name out there, and many who don't have what major labels are looking for, but they nevertheless have the skills, talent, and dedication. Comedy bands, for example, tend to not get much attention, even though there are some really good ones. Weird Al is really one of the very few exceptions exception.

I get how to find new music, explore the music scene. I was wondering if you somehow found music that can't be pirated based on some model that currently exists for a few (underground) bands. I don't see you presenting that, so I am thinking that is not what you intended your point to be. Take any underground band today, make them world famous, and watch lots and lots of their songs being ripped off by fans who think why pay for this when I can just get a copy for free?

I would say in the 80's, when a band like Suicidal Tendencies put out latest album, every (cool) kid I knew then, wanted a copy. I would guess around 80% of those obtained a purchased copy, thus a revenue stream going somewhere near the artists. Today, I'd be surprised if 18% of the copies for similar bands are being purchased.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I get how to find new music, explore the music scene. I was wondering if you somehow found music that can't be pirated based on some model that currently exists for a few (underground) bands.

It's in the fact their aren't enough people with their albums to find them on places like Pirate Bay.