What does the Bible say about the origins of the Earth in relation to what science say?

[ecco]

Where in the bible does claim the Earth is 6000 years old? I'll give you a clue no ****ing where

The Bible carefully and in great detail specifies the age of fathers at the time of the birth of their offspring. Bishop Ussher took this detailed chronology and calculated the age of the earth. Anyone with time and a basic understanding of reading and arithmetic will come to the same conclusion.

 

[ecco]

The Bible does not say the earth is 6000 years old. Bishop Ussher, a 17th century Irish archbishop played cut up dolls with the genealogies listed in later books of the OT to come up with his idea of what it is saying. That is not a teaching of the Bible. Hell, even Pat Robertson doesn't believe that!

Please show the specific errors that Ussher made in his calculations. Alternatively, show where the Biblical chronologies are wrong.

Or are you one of those folks who picks and chooses what parts of the Bible are "truth" and what parts are just so so stories?

 

[shmogie]

Can't disagree at this time about the BB because as Isaiah 40:26 God used His Power, His Strength to create.
So, God provided the needed abundant dynamic energy necessary to create the visible realm of creation.

Great ! I run into a lot of Christians that rail against the BB, believing it somehow is counter to Gods creation.

 

[ecco]

And even now, they are Just beginning to realise what our ancestors have known for thousands of Years, and that is, that we live in an eternal oscillating universe, and following each BB, there comes the Big Crunch.

How did our ancestors know this? Is it written in any holy scripture?

 

[ecco]

Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.

You posted a long segment in blue as in the above excerpt. Did you write this or is this a copy paste? If it is a copy paste, I did not see an attribution to the original.

 

[ecco]

According to the ancient cultures, we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands outward and contracts back to its beginning in space time,

Which ancient cultures?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

• We see that God formed a mature earth it may take millions of years if formed naturally but God engineered the earth and it was created a mature earth millions of years old.

So why did he put the ground full of fossils to make it look as if the earth actually also had a million year history? And why did he place and mold the fossils in such a way that it would look completely consistent with life evolving over some 3.8 billion years from primitive life all the way up to homo sapiens and all other extant species? Why did he design all extant species in such a way that it all looks as being one big family of common ancestry?

Sounds quite dishonest and deceitfull. Especially if he will then also punish all those who have fallen for his epic divine prank by using the rational brain he himself has given them.

Where I come from, that's called "planting false evidence".
Sounds like a bully of the worst kind.

You should never use manmade ways to observe the truths of the bible. You need to look at God the creator whom nothing is impossible for.

In other words: you need to allow for magic.
Sure, if you allow for magic, anything is possible.

sounds pretty useless though.

So it is clear God created everything to be age you see it as.

"clear". lol

Actually, what is clear is that you are saying that one has to give up all rationality and assume that all of reality is lying to us, in order to be able to marry what we observe with a contradicting bronze-age tale.

No thanks.

 

[ecco]

Dr. Schroeder ( MIT physics professor) says in the article, Genesis One

https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-One-physicist-Looks-Creation-ebook/dp/B00I3KZ4C8
According to Professor Gerald Schroeder, a nuclear physicist from MIT, God’s creation took 15 billion years, but also six twenty-four hour days as Scripture states! The answer lies in time dilation in our universe. Things that look very small, like distant stars, are actually very large. And times that seem very short, like six days for all of creation, become very long—even as long as 15 billion years.​

The above is what I call woo. It is a perfect example of someone taking a bit of science and combining it with a lot of superstitious nonsense and coming to nonsensical conclusions.

We will note that he has no support from his colleagues.

Gerald Schroeder - Wikipedia
His works frequently cite Talmudic, Midrashic and medieval commentaries on Biblical creation accounts, such as commentaries written by the Jewish philosopher Nachmanides. Among other things, Schroeder attempts to reconcile a six-day creation as described in Genesis with the scientific evidence that the world is billions of years old
...
His theories to reconcile faith and science have drawn some criticism from both religious and non-religious scientists, and his works remain controversial in scientific circles.
​

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When you cannot say anything intelligent it is best you say nothing at all. Posted today by me....

Eum... that is EXACTLY what you said.

Only instead of "last thursday" or "1 day ago" today (on a friday), it's just "6000 years ago".


Last Thursdayism is the idea that EVERYTHING was created last thursday in such a way that it just LOOKS and feels as if it is all much older.

Which is EXACTLY what you described.

Adam being created as an adult = adam being created AS IF he's been alive for 20 years (if it's the body of a 20-year old).
The earth being created AS IF it's 4.5 billion years old. Right down to tinkering with the atomic decay of the elements that make up the earth - as those are tested to determine the age of rocks.
The round being stacked with fossils designed specifically to make it look as if they've been there for millions of year.
All life being designed specifically to make it look as if it all evolved from common ancestors over billions of years.


Yes, what you are describing with "embedded age", is EXACTLY the same as "last thursdayism".
As "last thursdayism" is LITERALLY the idea of the universe and everything in it, being created last thursday, with the embedded age of 13.7 billion years.


There's also another HUGE problem with this ridiculous idea.
It's not JUST "embedded AGE". It's also "embedded HISTORY".

For example, beneath the mediteranian sea, there are several salt deposit layers. These form when a sea dries up. Over the course of millions of years, the mediteranian dried up several times - creating such a layer every time. For your story to be correct, your god would have had to include this "embedded HISTORY" into that seabed.

Another example, on the north pole there are hundreds of thousands of years worth of "snow ice" layers - which form during a winter/summer cycle. That's hundreds of thousands of years worth of history.

Etc etc etc.



Apparantly, you like to believe in a deceitful god. And to do so, you have no problem assuming that reality is lying to us and that some faith based belief system trumps that reality.

no thnks....

 

[Audie]

Great ! I run into a lot of Christians that rail against the BB, believing it somehow is counter to Gods creation.

Kind of like the ToE that way, and historical geology.

 

[Audie]

Eum... that is EXACTLY what you said.

Only instead of "last thursday" or "1 day ago" today (on a friday), it's just "6000 years ago".


Last Thursdayism is the idea that EVERYTHING was created last thursday in such a way that it just LOOKS and feels as if it is all much older.

Which is EXACTLY what you described.

Adam being created as an adult = adam being created AS IF he's been alive for 20 years (if it's the body of a 20-year old).
The earth being created AS IF it's 4.5 billion years old. Right down to tinkering with the atomic decay of the elements that make up the earth - as those are tested to determine the age of rocks.
The round being stacked with fossils designed specifically to make it look as if they've been there for millions of year.
All life being designed specifically to make it look as if it all evolved from common ancestors over billions of years.


Yes, what you are describing with "embedded age", is EXACTLY the same as "last thursdayism".
As "last thursdayism" is LITERALLY the idea of the universe and everything in it, being created last thursday, with the embedded age of 13.7 billion years.


There's also another HUGE problem with this ridiculous idea.
It's not JUST "embedded AGE". It's also "embedded HISTORY".

For example, beneath the mediteranian sea, there are several salt deposit layers. These form when a sea dries up. Over the course of millions of years, the mediteranian dried up several times - creating such a layer every time. For your story to be correct, your god would have had to include this "embedded HISTORY" into that seabed.

Another example, on the north pole there are hundreds of thousands of years worth of "snow ice" layers - which form during a winter/summer cycle. That's hundreds of thousands of years worth of history.

Etc etc etc.



Apparantly, you like to believe in a deceitful god. And to do so, you have no problem assuming that reality is lying to us and that some faith based belief system trumps that reality.

no thnks....

I did not reel like explaining any of that. good luck.

 

[Audie]

https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-One-physicist-Looks-Creation-ebook/dp/B00I3KZ4C8
According to Professor Gerald Schroeder, a nuclear physicist from MIT, God’s creation took 15 billion years, but also six twenty-four hour days as Scripture states! The answer lies in time dilation in our universe. Things that look very small, like distant stars, are actually very large. And times that seem very short, like six days for all of creation, become very long—even as long as 15 billion years.​

The above is what I call woo. It is a perfect example of someone taking a bit of science and combining it with a lot of superstitious nonsense and coming to nonsensical conclusions.

We will note that he has no support from his colleagues.

Gerald Schroeder - Wikipedia
His works frequently cite Talmudic, Midrashic and medieval commentaries on Biblical creation accounts, such as commentaries written by the Jewish philosopher Nachmanides. Among other things, Schroeder attempts to reconcile a six-day creation as described in Genesis with the scientific evidence that the world is billions of years old
...
His theories to reconcile faith and science have drawn some criticism from both religious and non-religious scientists, and his works remain controversial in scientific circles.
​

It is impossible to be an intellectually honest scientist-yec.

 

[shmogie]

Eum... that is EXACTLY what you said.

Only instead of "last thursday" or "1 day ago" today (on a friday), it's just "6000 years ago".


Last Thursdayism is the idea that EVERYTHING was created last thursday in such a way that it just LOOKS and feels as if it is all much older.

Which is EXACTLY what you described.

Adam being created as an adult = adam being created AS IF he's been alive for 20 years (if it's the body of a 20-year old).
The earth being created AS IF it's 4.5 billion years old. Right down to tinkering with the atomic decay of the elements that make up the earth - as those are tested to determine the age of rocks.
The round being stacked with fossils designed specifically to make it look as if they've been there for millions of year.
All life being designed specifically to make it look as if it all evolved from common ancestors over billions of years.

Give up ace, you have earned a place on my ignore list, where you will go today.

You obviously can´t grasp the concept, no surprise there.

Yes, what you are describing with "embedded age", is EXACTLY the same as "last thursdayism".
As "last thursdayism" is LITERALLY the idea of the universe and everything in it, being created last thursday, with the embedded age of 13.7 billion years.


There's also another HUGE problem with this ridiculous idea.
It's not JUST "embedded AGE". It's also "embedded HISTORY".

For example, beneath the mediteranian sea, there are several salt deposit layers. These form when a sea dries up. Over the course of millions of years, the mediteranian dried up several times - creating such a layer every time. For your story to be correct, your god would have had to include this "embedded HISTORY" into that seabed.

Another example, on the north pole there are hundreds of thousands of years worth of "snow ice" layers - which form during a winter/summer cycle. That's hundreds of thousands of years worth of history.

Etc etc etc.



Apparantly, you like to believe in a deceitful god. And to do so, you have no problem assuming that reality is lying to us and that some faith based belief system trumps that reality.

no thnks....

Eum... that is EXACTLY what you said.

Only instead of "last thursday" or "1 day ago" today (on a friday), it's just "6000 years ago".


Last Thursdayism is the idea that EVERYTHING was created last thursday in such a way that it just LOOKS and feels as if it is all much older.

Which is EXACTLY what you described.

Adam being created as an adult = adam being created AS IF he's been alive for 20 years (if it's the body of a 20-year old).
The earth being created AS IF it's 4.5 billion years old. Right down to tinkering with the atomic decay of the elements that make up the earth - as those are tested to determine the age of rocks.
The round being stacked with fossils designed specifically to make it look as if they've been there for millions of year.
All life being designed specifically to make it look as if it all evolved from common ancestors over billions of years.


Yes, what you are describing with "embedded age", is EXACTLY the same as "last thursdayism".
As "last thursdayism" is LITERALLY the idea of the universe and everything in it, being created last thursday, with the embedded age of 13.7 billion years.


There's also another HUGE problem with this ridiculous idea.
It's not JUST "embedded AGE". It's also "embedded HISTORY".

For example, beneath the mediteranian sea, there are several salt deposit layers. These form when a sea dries up. Over the course of millions of years, the mediteranian dried up several times - creating such a layer every time. For your story to be correct, your god would have had to include this "embedded HISTORY" into that seabed.

Another example, on the north pole there are hundreds of thousands of years worth of "snow ice" layers - which form during a winter/summer cycle. That's hundreds of thousands of years worth of history.

Etc etc etc.



Apparantly, you like to believe in a deceitful god. And to do so, you have no problem assuming that reality is lying to us and that some faith based belief system trumps that reality.

no thnks....

You obviously cannot grasp the concept, no surprise there. You have earned a place on my ignore list, the only one in years to do so, congratulations. It will be so today,

Guess what, time is relative, itś a brand new theory by a guy named Einstein, you ought of find out about it.

Depending upon the point of measurement in the universe, the perspective, a photon could have been released years ago, or millions of years ago. They are both equally true, not appear true, they are literally true.

Leave it to you to expand the issue into other areas, not understanding the basic principle, and draw ignorant conclusions, based upon misunderstanding. This will blow your mind, a fossil can be a million years old, or a day old, once again, depending upon how the age of the earth is measured relative to the rest of the universe. Both are absolutely true.

At the event horizon of a black hole, does time literally stop, or does it just appear to ?

So goodbye, I will thankfully not see any of your posts from now on. You will not have to take your valuable time to try to "teach¨ me anything.

 

[Audie]

You obviously cannot grasp the concept, no surprise there. You have earned a place on my ignore list, the only one in years to do so, congratulations. It will be so today,

Guess what, time is relative, itś a brand new theory by a guy named Einstein, you ought of find out about it.

Depending upon the point of measurement in the universe, the perspective, a photon could have been released years ago, or millions of years ago. They are both equally true, not appear true, they are literally true.

Leave it to you to expand the issue into other areas, not understanding the basic principle, and draw ignorant conclusions, based upon misunderstanding. This will blow your mind, a fossil can be a million years old, or a day old, once again, depending upon how the age of the earth is measured relative to the rest of the universe. Both are absolutely true.

At the event horizon of a black hole, does time literally stop, or does it just appear to ?

So goodbye, I will thankfully not see any of your posts from now on. You will not have to take your valuable time to try to "teach¨ me anything.

Goodness gracious!

That was not even addressed to you, and
your response has no relationship to the
topic (last thursdayism)

Res. was talking embedded age; I said
it was a ridiculous idea, and called it last
hursdayism.

His response-
↑
Resolution- (to Audie)

When you cannot say anything intelligent it is best you say nothing at all. Posted today by me....

Tag monster- (to resoluiton)

Eum... that is EXACTLY what you said.

But if what tag said is so offensive anyway,
ignore me too now, as I would say the same
as he, about embedded age, call it omphanos or
last thursdayism.

"Embedded Age" and Why it's Wrong

 

[Subduction Zone]

You obviously cannot grasp the concept, no surprise there. You have earned a place on my ignore list, the only one in years to do so, congratulations. It will be so today,

Guess what, time is relative, itś a brand new theory by a guy named Einstein, you ought of find out about it.

Depending upon the point of measurement in the universe, the perspective, a photon could have been released years ago, or millions of years ago. They are both equally true, not appear true, they are literally true.

Leave it to you to expand the issue into other areas, not understanding the basic principle, and draw ignorant conclusions, based upon misunderstanding. This will blow your mind, a fossil can be a million years old, or a day old, once again, depending upon how the age of the earth is measured relative to the rest of the universe. Both are absolutely true.

At the event horizon of a black hole, does time literally stop, or does it just appear to ?

So goodbye, I will thankfully not see any of your posts from now on. You will not have to take your valuable time to try to "teach¨ me anything.

I am sorry, buy your inability to understand relativity does not help you. In our frame of reference the Earth is billions of years old. The only frames of reference where it is not would be one billions of light years away(due to expansion) or one moving very quickly past the object in question. Time dilation is a difficult concept to understand and one that creationists think can save them. That is never the case.

But I shomogie tends to put people on ignore that repeatedly refute his nonsense. So congratulations @TagliatelliMonster , you refuted him one time too many!

 

[Shad]

Of course light is used as the measuring tool, and the speed of light is fixed.

As Dr. Schroeder ( MIT physics professor) says in the article, Genesis One, If a laser beam was fired into the universe at one second intervals from earth, a point in space would be reached where the beams would begin taking longer than one second to arrive.

Nope as distance and movement of the galaxy (target one) is include in the calculation.

Close to the edge of the universe the interval between the flashes would be years apart.

Assertion based on nothing.

The distance, the continued expansion of the universe, the speed of light, all figure in to the time dilation seen when the beam is received. The effect is seen in red and blue shift as well.

Nope as movement is already part of the calculation. Red and blue shift are not distance measurements.

Depending upon where you are, the flashes are one second apart, or years apart, both equally true.

Assertion based on nothing

He calls this effect time dilation.

He is wrong then

I am not a physicist, he is.

Argument from authority

If you have decided he is in error, I can get you an address where you may correct him.

I do not need to as you are proposing the argument here not him. If you can not defend some source you can not even remember that is your burden not mine. Do note you have not named the person until now.

Gerald Schroeder - Wikipedia

He is mixing his religion into science as science upsets his religious view. Nothing more. Do note how his idea align with what his bronze age book claims but nothing else. He ignores archaeology. He makes blunders with figures, if you read his book He is just babbling as he is a literialist. He has zero evidence supporting his idea. First off he says God is within a time frame thus bound by time. Ergo God is now not God. God also has velocity ergo God has movement thus bound by physics thus not God. God becomes a physical body thus not God. Of course this is all presented with zero evidence.

You saw MIT physicists and your eyes glazed over as he told you what you wanted to hear. Nothing more.

 

[shmogie]

Goodness gracious!

That was not even addressed to you, and
your response has no relationship to the
topic (last thursdayism)

Res. was talking embedded age; I said
it was a ridiculous idea, and called it last
hursdayism.

His response-
↑
Resolution- (to Audie)

When you cannot say anything intelligent it is best you say nothing at all. Posted today by me....

Tag monster- (to resoluiton)

Eum... that is EXACTLY what you said.

But if what tag said is so offensive anyway,
ignore me too now, as I would say the same
as he, about embedded age, call it omphanos or
last thursdayism.

"Embedded Age" and Why it's Wrong

Correct, it was not addressed to me. My response was for ecco, a person who I do not want to deal with any longer. He and I clash quite often, however he is another who cannot refrain from personal comments, and I am tired of it. Thus, I will ignore him.

Yes though, I made an error, mea culpa

 

[Audie]

Correct, it was not addressed to me. My response was for ecco, a person who I do not want to deal with any longer. He and I clash quite often, however he is another who cannot refrain from personal comments, and I am tired of it. Thus, I will ignore him.

Yes though, I made an error, mea culpa

So, ok. Not my biz.
But are you a fan of omphalos?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Correct, it was not addressed to me. My response was for ecco, a person who I do not want to deal with any longer. He and I clash quite often, however he is another who cannot refrain from personal comments, and I am tired of it. Thus, I will ignore him.

Yes though, I made an error, mea culpa

Were they "personal comments" or observations that you do not understand the science that you mangle? There is a difference. In post #253 you make incredibly ironic comments about @TagliatelliMonster not understanding time dilation and then you proceed to totally mangle the concept.

 

[Audie]

Were they "personal comments" or observations that you do not understand the science that you mangle? There is a difference. In post #253 you make incredibly ironic comments about @TagliatelliMonster not understanding time dilation and then you proceed to totally mangle the concept.

Well, as I said, divers persons including myself are out
of their depth on such things, and would be better
off with other topics.