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What does the Bible say about the origins of the Earth in relation to what science say?

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Noah could have easily had pre-flood writings taken on the Ark with him (Genesis 5)
Those writings could have been passed on to Moses for Moses to use.
After all, Scripture is 'the mind of God' written down for us - 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
That is another myth. An even more obvious one. The Ark myth was refuted long before the theory of evolution came along.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
There is no evidence that I know of that implies that the speed of light has ever varied.

The Genesis account has much more depth than a cursory reading would apply, it can be linked to science much more than the average person would think.

The 6,000 year old number to be true is dependent upon perspective. If Time dilation works as Dr, Schroeder predicts, then the perspective from the earth early in creation in might be true, yet the perspective from the outer limits of the universe may be true as well 15 billion years.

It seems to be all about where things are measured by time.
As my high school English teacher used those words, I think your local English teachers also can do the same.
To me it is Not another language even though Genesis was written in Hebrew so a local Rabbi could also shed light.
So, to me English teachers and Jewish Rabbi's could support my claim about the difference between the words ' create ' and ' make '.
We think of God creating Adam, and how did God create Adam but by forming Adam from existing earth/ground.
So, who could Not see the difference that Adam was Not a direct Creation, but created by being formed out
of already existing creation.

An excellent point ! God created once, he made many, many things. I know you will disagree with me, but the BB was Gods instant creation of time, the rules nature, and all the material he used to make everything.

For me, it is an elegant proof of Gods creation.

Until the 1920ś the great scientists said the universe was static, always was, always would be, yet Jews and Christians had proof from God That the universe instantly burst forth at the will and voice of God. It took science thousands of years to catch up to us.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Yes. it is all related to E=MC2. The expansion of the universe ¨stretches time in distance, thus effecting the measurement at point A at the beginning of the expansion and point B a great distance from the beginning point of expansion. Time dilation.

Wrong again. That isn't time dilation. Beside we detect distances via light, we detect movement via light. Thus distance is already accounted for. Without light being used as a measurement we have no data outside the solar system. We have no idea of distance. More so you (nor your source) are not providing a new measurement system so you have no idea what distances objects are at.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
An excellent point ! God created once, he made many, many things. I know you will disagree with me, but the BB was Gods instant creation of time, the rules nature, and all the material he used to make everything.

For me, it is an elegant proof of Gods creation.

Until the 1920ś the great scientists said the universe was static, always was, always would be, yet Jews and Christians had proof from God That the universe instantly burst forth at the will and voice of God. It took science thousands of years to catch up to us.

And even now, they are Just beginning to realise what our ancestors have known for thousands of Years, and that is, that we live in an eternal oscillating universe, and following each BB, there comes the Big Crunch.

Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.

Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking. To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar’s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics.

These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways. Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar’s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete “atomic” structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed. In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional “threads.” The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it’s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.

Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research “Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time.” The universe “may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history,” he added. Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it’s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that’s not known, he added. Steinhardt‘s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics. Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions.

Our zone, called a braneworld [the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane] could periodically bounce into another, parallel braneworld. Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. “I don’t know if Ashetkar’s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing,” Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won’t take place for another roughly 300 billion years—so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.

Just as the Big Bang theory has been evolving over the years and is continuing to evolve as new data becomes available, these big Crunch theories that are just beginning to emerge are still in their infancy.

Because three-dimensional time as we know it, does not exist prior to the Big Bang: from the return of the universe to the supposedly infinitely hot, infinitely dense and infinitesimally small singularity of origin to the next Big Bang when three dimensional space and time would begin, it would appear that no time had elapsed, thus [As I believe] the erroneous Big Bounce theory.

I would rather a theory which states that there are many galactic clusters [universes] out there within the eternal and boundless cosmos, each cluster=universe in its own position in Space-time, consisting of billions of Galaxies falling inward toward a Great Abyss, Black Hole, or Bottomless Pit, where it is torn to pieces Molecule by molecule, atom by atom, sub-atomic particle by sub-atomic particle, and reconverted into the electromagnetic energy from which they were created and accelerated along the Einstein Rosen Bridge or dark worm hole, to speeds far, far in excess of the speed of light, where that liquid like Electromagnetic energy is spewed out in the trillions of degrees, somewhere far beyond the visible horizon of the eternal and boundless cosmos, where, from the cooling quantum of that electromagnetic energy a new universe is created, or rather, the old universe is resurrected, to continue on in its eternal process of evolution.

According to the ancient cultures, we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands outward and contracts back to its beginning in space time, a living universal being who is all that exists, and in who, all that is, exists. A universe that exists in the two states of seemingly visible matter and invisible energy=anti-matter.

The God of pure energy, which is in the constant state of evolution, and which manifests itself as the supposedly physical universe.

“Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all, the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara, or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds would seem as an eternity, or but a moment in time.

‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the “GENERATIONS OF THE UNIVERSE.”

The English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth” which is used in the Old Testament as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles of endless rebirths that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

Enoch the righteous, wrote that God created an eighth day also, so that it should be the first after his works, and it is a day eternal with neither hours, days, weeks, months or years, for all time is stuck together in one eon, etc, etc, and all who enter into the generation of the Light beings, are able to visit all those worlds that still exist in Space-Time, but not in our time.

A series of worlds following one upon the other-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it. This is the true resurrection in which all from the previous cycle of universal activity, who still have the judgmental war raging within them, are born again into the endless cycles of physical manifestation, or rebirths.
 
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shmogie

Well-Known Member
Wrong again. That isn't time dilation. Beside we detect distances via light, we detect movement via light. Thus distance is already accounted for. Without light being used as a measurement we have no data outside the solar system. We have no idea of distance. More so you (nor your source) are not providing a new measurement system so you have no idea what distances objects are at.
Of course light is used as the measuring tool, and the speed of light is fixed.

As Dr. Schroeder ( MIT physics professor) says in the article, Genesis One, If a laser beam was fired into the universe at one second intervals from earth, a point in space would be reached where the beams would begin taking longer than one second to arrive. Close to the edge of the universe the interval between the flashes would be years apart. The distance, the continued expansion of the universe, the speed of light, all figure in to the time dilation seen when the beam is received. The effect is seen in red and blue shift as well.

Depending upon where you are, the flashes are one second apart, or years apart, both equally true.

He calls this effect time dilation. I am not a physicist, he is. If you have decided he is in error, I can get you an address where you may correct him.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Of course light is used as the measuring tool, and the speed of light is fixed.

As Dr. Schroeder ( MIT physics professor) says in the article, Genesis One, If a laser beam was fired into the universe at one second intervals from earth, a point in space would be reached where the beams would begin taking longer than one second to arrive. Close to the edge of the universe the interval between the flashes would be years apart. The distance, the continued expansion of the universe, the speed of light, all figure in to the time dilation seen when the beam is received. The effect is seen in red and blue shift as well.

Depending upon where you are, the flashes are one second apart, or years apart, both equally true.

He calls this effect time dilation. I am not a physicist, he is. If you have decided he is in error, I can get you an address where you may correct him.
Or perhaps you misunderstood the article that you read.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
An excellent point ! God created once, he made many, many things. I know you will disagree with me, but the BB was Gods instant creation of time, the rules nature, and all the material he used to make everything.
For me, it is an elegant proof of Gods creation.
Until the 1920ś the great scientists said the universe was static, always was, always would be, yet Jews and Christians had proof from God That the universe instantly burst forth at the will and voice of God. It took science thousands of years to catch up to us.

Can't disagree at this time about the BB because as Isaiah 40:26 God used His Power, His Strength to create.
So, God provided the needed abundant dynamic energy necessary to create the visible realm of creation.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Can't disagree at this time about the BB because as Isaiah 40:26 God used His Power, His Strength to create.
So, God provided the needed abundant dynamic energy necessary to create the visible realm of creation.

There is no science that can prove the existence of God. Your statement begins with an unfalsifiable premise about his existence.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Ok so God says this is what he did every day
Well, it goes like this,
In the beginning:
God created the Heavens and the Earth
the Earth was void and dark without any recognisable shape,
and the Spirit of God hovered above the waters.
God said, let there be Light, and it was evening and morning,
the 1st day was done.
day 2
God seperated waters above and below a firmament he made
day 3
God seperated land and sea.
day 4
God placed the Sun, Moon and Stars in the sky.
We will go so far for now.

To me something was very difficuilt to understand, and it was this thing called a firmament.
I thought about it for about 3 weeks, visited some websites, read commentaries, but I could not get the answer.
Water that was above and below this firmament simply did not calculate in my mind.

I then memorised Chapter one and kept on thinking about it as I travelled to work and home. At that stage I had a good 2 hours travelling a day.

Now, this is not a hoax, or something I cooked up, but a voice told me: "What did the Earth look on the morning of the 3rd day?"
Without causing an accident at 140Km/h, my mind rushed around at the same speed.
So, let me leave the Question over to anyone who would like to answer.
What did the Earth look on the morning of day 3?

The Jews believed the earth was flat and there was a dome over it (firmament) with the stars fixed in it. sorta like a giant snow globe.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
The Jews believed the earth was flat and there was a dome over it (firmament) with the stars fixed in it. sorta like a giant snow globe.

The Hebrew 'chug,' can mean circle, arch, vault, or compass.

According to the Genesis narrative, it is on the second day that the Lord calls for a "firmament" to be in the "midst of the waters" to divide the waters: That is the division of the solar nebula cloud from the galactic Nebula cloud.

"And God said, let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under (or within) the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day." (Genesis 1:6-8 KJV)

The term "firmament" according to the Creation account, is taken from the Hebrew: רָקִיעַ raqiya` raw-kee'-ah, which is defined by many scholars as an expanse, or the visible arch of the sky:—firmament, but a primitive root; “רָקַע raqa` raw-kah” means, to pound, hammer, to overlay (with thin sheets of metal):—beat, make broad, spread abroad (forth, over, out, into plates), stamp, stretch.

The creation of the firmament is associated with the placement of some sort of structure, and in some modern Bibles many modern scholars translate the Hebrew word raqia as a "dome" or "vault". The Hebrew language appears to imply that the firmament is a firm, fixed structure (FIRMament, which can now be seen as the spherical cloud of comets (Icy vault) in which our solar system was created from the solar nebula cloud that was divided from the greater galactic nebula cloud.

"And God said, “Let there be lights within the firmament or vault to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

(Genesis 1:14-16 KJV) This verse says that the Sun, Moon, and Stars=planets of our solar system, are "within" the firmament. Therefore, the waters that are "above the firmament=dome/vault" must be above the Sun, Moon and Stars=planets of our solar system, revealing that the waters which are referred to in Psalms 148:4; "Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens," belong to the greater galactic nebula cloud which has become our Milky Way Galaxy.

The Oort cloud, or the Opik-Oort cloud, which is named after Jan Oort, is a spherical cloud that surrounds our solar system, a cloud of predominantly icy objects such as comets that are comprised of mainly hydrogen, oxygen=water, ammonia and methane, and extends up to about a light year from the sun and defines the cosmographical boundary of our Solar System and the region of the suns gravitational dominance. Here is the Firmament, the great spherical vault within which is found the sun, moons and planets of our solar system, the dome of ice above us.

Knowing that the planets of our solar system were already created before the sun came into existence when the hydrogen nuclei within the condensing solar cloud started fusing together to produce helium nuclei and a lot of energy thereby creating our sun, we must now ask the question, “Did life on earth begin to evolve before the creation of the sun?” As is recorded in the Bible. And can life exist without sunlight? Proof of this is to be found in the darkest depths of our oceans, where life has evolved over six miles beneath the surface where sunlight does not and cannot penetrate. This subject will be discussed at a later stage.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The Hebrew 'chug,' can mean circle, arch, vault, or compass.

According to the Genesis narrative, it is on the second day that the Lord calls for a "firmament" to be in the "midst of the waters" to divide the waters: That is the division of the solar nebula cloud from the galactic Nebula cloud.

"And God said, let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under (or within) the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day." (Genesis 1:6-8 KJV)

The term "firmament" according to the Creation account, is taken from the Hebrew: רָקִיעַ raqiya` raw-kee'-ah, which is defined by many scholars as an expanse, or the visible arch of the sky:—firmament, but a primitive root; “רָקַע raqa` raw-kah” means, to pound, hammer, to overlay (with thin sheets of metal):—beat, make broad, spread abroad (forth, over, out, into plates), stamp, stretch.

The creation of the firmament is associated with the placement of some sort of structure, and in some modern Bibles many modern scholars translate the Hebrew word raqia as a "dome" or "vault". The Hebrew language appears to imply that the firmament is a firm, fixed structure (FIRMament, which can now be seen as the spherical cloud of comets (Icy vault) in which our solar system was created from the solar nebula cloud that was divided from the greater galactic nebula cloud.

"And God said, “Let there be lights within the firmament or vault to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

(Genesis 1:14-16 KJV) This verse says that the Sun, Moon, and Stars=planets of our solar system, are "within" the firmament. Therefore, the waters that are "above the firmament=dome/vault" must be above the Sun, Moon and Stars=planets of our solar system, revealing that the waters which are referred to in Psalms 148:4; "Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens," belong to the greater galactic nebula cloud which has become our Milky Way Galaxy.

The Oort cloud, or the Opik-Oort cloud, which is named after Jan Oort, is a spherical cloud that surrounds our solar system, a cloud of predominantly icy objects such as comets that are comprised of mainly hydrogen, oxygen=water, ammonia and methane, and extends up to about a light year from the sun and defines the cosmographical boundary of our Solar System and the region of the suns gravitational dominance. Here is the Firmament, the great spherical vault within which is found the sun, moons and planets of our solar system, the dome of ice above us.

Knowing that the planets of our solar system were already created before the sun came into existence when the hydrogen nuclei within the condensing solar cloud started fusing together to produce helium nuclei and a lot of energy thereby creating our sun, we must now ask the question, “Did life on earth begin to evolve before the creation of the sun?” As is recorded in the Bible. And can life exist without sunlight? Proof of this is to be found in the darkest depths of our oceans, where life has evolved over six miles beneath the surface where sunlight does not and cannot penetrate. This subject will be discussed at a later stage.


I love the endless variety one gets when one reinterprets the Bible after the fact.
 

RESOLUTION

Active Member
Is English your second language? It is my second
language, so if you are still a beginner, I will
understand.
When all else fails and you are proved wrong then change the subject. Whatever my first or second language, it has nothing to do with the discussion.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
An excellent point ! God created once, he made many, many things. I know you will disagree with me, but the BB was Gods instant creation of time, the rules nature, and all the material he used to make everything.

For me, it is an elegant proof of Gods creation.

Until the 1920ś the great scientists said the universe was static, always was, always would be, yet Jews and Christians had proof from God That the universe instantly burst forth at the will and voice of God. It took science thousands of years to catch up to us.

Even if that too-cute "catch up" were so,
we note that you guys are having the
hardest time catching up with the 19th
century, but bitterly cling to the 6 day poof.

Adam poofed from dust, all life created in
its present form, poof.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Even if that too-cute "catch up" were so,
we note that you guys are having the
hardest time catching up with the 19th
century, but bitterly cling to the 6 day poof.

Adam poofed from dust, all life created in
its present form, poof.
Bitterly ? Really ? The universe poofed into existence.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Bitterly ? Really ? The universe poofed into existence.

Ha, I am just quoting your hero,Obama.

As for universe-poof, that is a gross oversimplification
of physics.

But never mind, the bit about cow-poof
was what I was looking at. Can we discuss what
is in my post, not what is not?

Instant creation of all life forms is so pre-19th century;
I'd not brag too much on a supposed church-insight
that takes a lot of "interpreting" to get to fit, when there
is something as silly as cow- poof still clung to,
bitterly, or otherwise.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
It is you who is usually proved wrong!:rolleyes:

Its ok, some just are not very self aware.

Not that 93 pounds of me is exactly a lion but
the other proportions match.

"A flea jumped into a lion's cage and bit that lion good,
And then he stood on the lion's mangy mane, as a conquering hero should.
He said, 'Oh witness, my power and my might,
I've conquered that lion with one mighty bite.
He does not roar, he does not growl, although his mood is black
He's lying there and doesn't even dare to try and bite me back!
A mighty flea am I, a mighty flea am I.'

Now concerning this flea, one sad thing must be written:
That lion didn't even know that he'd been bitten.
And the moral of this story is painfully plain:
That fleas, like human beings, are silly and vain.
 
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