What does the bible really say

[Brickjectivity]

John Doe says I think that it translates to mean this.
Jane Doe says no I think that it translates to mean this.

There are several things which cause this. People care how it is explained, and that concern is the main reason why there are odd influences. For example I may only care about angels and only be interested in angels and be very concerned that the word 'Angel' appears. I might complain, wrie letters and talk down about any translation which in any way leaves oit the word instead of translating it some other way such as by using the word 'Messenger'. Then I demonstrate how my care though I am no scholar places pressure to explain the bible as being a book about angels. I could even introduce it that way and title it 'Angel Book'. Similar problems can happen for those who want the bible to be about something.

Where did the language get lost to where people have to resort to "I think this it what it means"?

It didn't. There are other reasons for saying that.

If the language was lost overtime, who taught the translaters the language so they could say "we think it says/means this" .

The language has been preserved and kept in use by scholars, however they have been threatened, injured, killed, imprisoned and otherwise pressured. They have good reasons to fear complete honesty, and we should not blame them. This text is important,so anyone with power seeks to use it to promote themselves. It is dangerous to be the one who knows all about it.

 

[Brickjectivity]

So...politics is mainly to blame. It is a book of ideas, and sometimes it is unhealthy for those ideas to be known. The king may come to visit the scribe to demand changes, enhancements etc. This happens less if that king never knows nor cares what the text says. It also may preserve the life of one's child if they never know. If the information is lost or secret or regarded as incomprehensible and saves lives by such secrecy is that not a wise course of action? Is it not worth forgetting in order to save one's family?

 

[DNB]

Im not a religious person but I find it interesting that in my opinion with so many different translations, versions, etc... do we even really know what the bible says or the meaning behind the passages?

John Doe says I think that it translates to mean this.
Jane Doe says no I think that it translates to mean this.

Where did the language get lost to where people have to resort to "I think this it what it means"?

If the language was lost overtime, who taught the translaters the language so they could say "we think it says/means this" .

Has the bible been translated correctly or is it still misunderstood?

I personally believe that God has employed a discretion in His Word in order to force people to study more diligently, and, almost especially, to confound the shallow and misguided .
This is the differentiator between the child and the man, the fool and the wise. It is a rather profound approach to explain things in a certain manner that will force a dichotomy between either the adherents, or the detractors. Talking snakes, global floods, virgin births, etc.. are deal-breakers for the pedantic and secular, but the bear a great significance to the wise and insightful (we understand why things occurred as such).

Outside of the obvious history, language and culture barriers, translator's biases, formal or dynamic equivalences, there's bound to be discrepancies or alternate readings of the text. But, again, even this invariable phenomenon, plus the, at times, cryptic and profound nature of the writings, tends to produce a stark contrast between the readers of Scripture. And, this, to me, is divinely intended. You don't know who your friends are until a crisis occurs, equally, you don't know who the truly faithful and wise are, until a spiritual challenge is put before them.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I enjoyed this post (the one I quoted below) from you!

I think you’re exactly right.

The following quote…..

But they will stick with their “idea” and demand everyone to follow their “idea” or else.
That’s why there is so much conflict in the world regarding roles of men and women and marriage, etc.

… is really the key to finding out who receive accurate knowledge, and where is it.
By conflict, I’m assuming you mean physical confrontation?
IMO you see, once a religious organization resorts to killing others, or even supporting those who do, for whatever reason - racial, national, political or any supposed barrier - they have forsaken God.

As the Creator of all people (Acts of the Apostles 17:26), He wants us to love each other. If an organization or certain people supports a conflict or war, they have lost His approval. They’re essentially disobeying God & His Son, doing just the opposite of what God & Jesus want (John 13:35; Matthew 5:44).
And since God is the One providing insight into His word, we shouldn’t expect any kind of insight coming from such ones.

Dont you think so?

Fitted your context. It's a natural human bias. We all do it. We see what we're looking for because we fit what we see into the 'context' of what we expect things to be.

Did you read my post? I was not looking for, nor expecting, what I discovered. In fact, I said it was disappointing. At first, I did not want to accept what the Bible says about certain things.

For instance…. I found out the Bible states that the dead — like my Grandpa — are not ‘living in another realm’, as so many believe! Right now, he is non-existent!

You think I wanted to accept that? No way! Not at first.

But I adjusted my thinking… accepting that, in turn, helped me to accept other Biblical teachings, like the Resurrection. And what God’s “will” is for the Earth. (Matthew 6:9-10)

But it was certainly not what I was expecting … or wanted.

You can’t study anything honestly, looking for confirmation bias.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Im not a religious person but I find it interesting that in my opinion with so many different translations, versions, etc... do we even really know what the bible says or the meaning behind the passages?

John Doe says I think that it translates to mean this.
Jane Doe says no I think that it translates to mean this.

Where did the language get lost to where people have to resort to "I think this it what it means"?

If the language was lost overtime, who taught the translaters the language so they could say "we think it says/means this" .

Has the bible been translated correctly or is it still misunderstood?

Jews preserve the traditional understanding of the passages. This does not, however, mean that we don't keep turning things over looking for what new learning can be gained. But the oral tradition we have is very strong.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Who exactly does the translations?

Names? Faces of these people?

This is Lancelot Andrew’s, Bishop
and scholar, one of the senior clerics overseeing the translation of the King James Bible. More than 50 academics were involved in the project. It’s not hard to find this stuff out btw…

 

[Brian2]

But that is what everyone does. Do you believe it is possible to not interpret something? How does that happen? By what mechanism? How do you bypass the interpretive mind?

I have experience of interpreting what my wife said in a different way than she meant and visa versa.
Nevertheless some passages are easy to read and understand but people seem to manage to bypass the interpretive mind when they are members of a particular group who have certain doctrines that need to be upheld, so they manage to twist passages on their head and their bias seems to prevent them from seeing the meaning of a passage even when facts are given to prove their interpretation is in error.
It makes for a frustrating discussion at times.

 

[Windwalker]

I have experience of interpreting what my wife said in a different way than she meant and visa versa.

Well, there you go. And she is directly in front of you in realtime. Imagine if she lived 2000 years ago, in another culture which we have only a historically removed outsider's perspective of, speaking in a language which is no longer spoken in the current world, and you rely upon others to translate her words to you through. Don't you think interpretations would be even more prone to coming up with wildly different meanings, than it is when someone is right in front of you?

Nevertheless some passages are easy to read and understand but people seem to manage to bypass the interpretive mind when they are members of a particular group who have certain doctrines that need to be upheld, so they manage to twist passages on their head and their bias seems to prevent them from seeing the meaning of a passage even when facts are given to prove their interpretation is in error.
It makes for a frustrating discussion at times.

Everyone has biases. It's the way we are wired neurologically. We shortcut our ways to finding meanings through them. And you are correct about group influences upon the individual's interpretations who participate in them. Each one of them think they see the truth, in the same way you may believe you are seeing the truth.

I'd be curious to see a few examples of what you think are clear cut passages to see how others may legitimately come up with different meanings than what you see in them? Are you certain that you are right and they are wrong? Isn't that what they also think about those who don't read it like them? Perhaps it's really not about 'right vs. wrong' interpretations? Doesn't everyone have their own understandings of God, and what matters is what is in the heart, and not the ideas we have in our minds which are largely conditional?

 

[Twilight Hue]

This is Lancelot Andrew’s, Bishop
and scholar, one of the senior clerics overseeing the translation of the King James Bible. More than 50 academics were involved in the project. It’s not hard to find this stuff out btw…

View attachment 54886

How were they determined to be divinely inspired?

I think that might be a bit harder to answer.

 

[RestlessSoul]

How were they determined to be divinely inspired?

I think that might be a bit harder to answer.

Bishop Andrewes apparently spent 5 hours a day in prayer and meditation, so he certainly sought divine guidance. Whether he received it, I couldn't possibly say.

The translators of the KJV were selected for the depth of their education, in particular their knowledge of classical languages. They were formed into several quasi autonomous committees each designed to represent a broad cross section of Christian opinion, from High Church to Puritan. They laboured, debated, prayed and argued for months over particular passages, and sometimes for days over single sentences.

Whatever else they may or may not have achieved, they transformed one of the great treasuries of world literature into one of the great masterpieces of English literature. Any English speaking person with reverence for the written word, owes them a debt of gratitude arguably as great as that which we owe Shakespeare.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Dont you think so?

Yes, indeed.

You speak wisely.

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

 

[Brian2]

I'd be curious to see a few examples of what you think are clear cut passages to see how others may legitimately come up with different meanings than what you see in them? Are you certain that you are right and they are wrong? Isn't that what they also think about those who don't read it like them? Perhaps it's really not about 'right vs. wrong' interpretations? Doesn't everyone have their own understandings of God, and what matters is what is in the heart, and not the ideas we have in our minds which are largely conditional?

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

Matt 28:5 But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; He has risen, just as He said! Come, see the place where He lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell His disciples, ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see Him.’

The JWs say that Jesus was not resurrected bodily and usually do not respond when these scripture comes up.

John 1:2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

JWs say that Jesus was created.

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Baha'is make this mean the opposite of what it says. They say that not Jesus, someone else, with come, not come back, in a different way than the disciples saw, not the same way.

John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.
John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 15:26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.
John 16:7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

The Baha'i say that the Advocate is the Spirit of Truth and is Baha'u'llah and is not the Holy Spirit that came to the disciples at Pentecost.