What does God want from you?

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Why does God need to let you know? Would not you become wiser figuring it all out on your own? Look how much more knowledge and wisdom you would acquire along the journey to Discover anything. Further, how many really listen when they are told? On the other hand, people don't question that which they Discovered for themselves. Example: What freezes quicker cold water or hot water? I could tell you, however how many would never believe until they Discover the answer for themselves?

God does not need to let me know. But if god wants me to know or expects things from me then it would be the best thing to just let me know and then give me the knowledge I would have gotten on the journey to "find" him.

In this way he could make sure the communication is 100% correct. In your way there will be many that won't get this knowledge. Is that what god desires?

 

[blü 2]

Question? Isn't God supposed to be Accomplished?? From your description, God is not accomplished. God is merely entertaining Himself.

Fair question.

We're told that humans are made in God's image, so it seems fair to conclude that God was inventive, industrious, clever, and easily bored. I therefore conclude that having had the fun of making the universe, [he] put it in the attic (or cellar, or barn, or wherever you put those big Christmas jigsaws that you only ever do once) and forgot about it.

That would account for why God (these days) never appears, never says, never does.

So coming back to the OP question , What does God want from you? the answer is, nothing. Same as with the jigsaw puzzle above, you do it once then move on to pastures new.

What about you? Are you accomplished or merely entertaining yourself?

I'm not without accomplishments of a modest kind, and I'm not without some skills when it comes to entertaining myself, though I find I drink less as I age.

 

[Trailblazer]

What is the logic?

My logic is that God is too different from humans to be understood directly and that is why there needs to be a Mediator between God and man. That Mediator has a two-fold nature, one human and one divine, so He can act as a link between God and man, a go-between.

That is my question.

My answer is that it is not possible for humans to understand God communicating to them directly since the mind of God is on such a higher level and is unlike a human mind. That is one reason God hasn't God communicated directly to everyone. The other reason is that it is totally unnecessary for God to communicate directly to everyone since God can communicate to one Messenger who can relay the message to everyone.

Related to that, the sheer volume of what God communicates to a Messenger over the course of many years (in the case of Baha'u'llah, it was over the course of 40 years) could not be communicated to every person on earth, even if they had the ability to comprehend it. People have other things they have to do, make a living, raise families, so they would not have time to do what The Messenger did on His mission. He dedicated the bulk of 40 years to writing scriptures.

This makes no sense. If you put one person in between two people communication the likelihood of errors in communication will increase, and will increase every time you put someone or something in-between two people.

It is the fallacy of false equivalence to compare person to person communication to God to a person communication because God is not a person.
One reason for the Messenger is that He can take communication from God and put it in words that people comprehend, and if they don't comprehend the scriptures at first they can study them at their own convenience until they comprehend them.

How do you know this? There are plenty of people that claim they talk to God directly, why dismiss them?

A better question is: why believe them?

Anyone can talk to God directly. I do it often, and God probably doesn't like what I have to say most of the time.
The issues arise when people claim that God talks back to them. I consider that delusional.

How does someone tell the difference between a god that does not exist and a god that does not communicate with them directly?

I already said that 'God does not exist' is one of the logical possibilities, but to expect that if God existed God would communicate to you directly is not logical, since God has never communicated to humans directly.

A better question would be: How do you distinguish between a God that does not exist and a God that exists.

How do you know this? God could not exist as well. How do you determine the differnce?

I know that God has not communicated directly to everyone because everyone does not believe in God.
Some people claim that God has communicated directly to them but there is no reason to believe such a claim since there is no evidence to support it.

It is true that God might not exist, but a reason to believe that is not because God has not communicated directly to everyone, since there is no reason to assume that if God existed God would communicate directly to everyone.

I have no idea, maybe God talking directly to people as many claim?

Can't you understand why it would be problematic for people to believe they can know about God by what they 'believe' you are hearing from God? People imagine all sorts of things but it doesn't mean they are real.

I have never been a great fan of religion, and I never had a religion as a child, but I later came to realize that if I want to know about God religion is the only way.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

My logic is that God is too different from humans to be understood directly and that is why there needs to be a Mediator between God and man. That Mediator has a two-fold nature, one human and one divine, so He can act as a link between God and man, a go-between.

No, I was asking what is your logic that a god exists.

My answer is that it is not possible for humans to understand God communicating to them directly since the mind of God is on such a higher level and is unlike a human mind. That is one reason God hasn't God communicated directly to everyone. The other reason is that it is totally unnecessary for God to communicate directly to everyone since God can communicate to one Messenger who can relay the message to everyone.

Ok, but you have not answered why it is not possible for humans to understand god directly and I still disagree that inserting one more step than necessary for communication is going to be less reliable.

It is the fallacy of false equivalence to compare person to person communication to God to a person communication because God is not a person.
One reason for the Messenger is that He can take communication from God and put it in words that people comprehend, and if they don't comprehend the scriptures at first they can study them at their own convenience until they comprehend them.

It is not a false equivalence. The equivalence is not humans and god but the communication type. You are just special pleading for god that he cannot communicate directly with us as because he is god.

A better question is: why believe them?

Can you give me good evidence as to why I should believe you?

A better question would be: How do you distinguish between a God that does not exist and a God that exists.

What is you answer?

I know that God has not communicated directly to everyone because everyone does not believe in God.

This assumes god exists.

It is true that God might not exist, but a reason to believe that is not because God has not communicated directly to everyone, since there is no reason to assume that if God existed God would communicate directly to everyone.

I never made this claim.

Can't you understand why it would be problematic for people to believe they can know about God by what they 'believe' you are hearing from God? People imagine all sorts of things but it doesn't mean they are real.

I agree, but a god could communicate to people and solve this problem as well.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why do you believe this?

A Baha'i believes whatever the Baha'i Faith tells them to believe.

Do you believe this because the Baha'i faith teaches that?

They are told to investigate it on their own to see if what the Baha'i Faith teaches is true. But even TB says that there is no proof, only what she claims to be evidence, his self, his revelation and his writings.

What is the logic?

Many of us question how logical is it to believe in a person who claims to be able to speak to God? So, some assumptions, or taking things on faith, are necessary to follow her logic.

Can you give me good evidence as to why I should believe you?

You've already heard TB's "good" evidence, his self, his revelation and his writings. It only goes downhill from there.

As far as organized religions go, that claim to have all the answers to fix all the world's problems and bring peace and harmony, they're not too bad. But it is an organized religion with a bunch of "God-given" rules. And to join a person has to declare their belief that the Baha'i prophet has indeed been sent from the one and only true God. Something that not one Baha'i can prove, but something they must believe.

Oh... and great questions. Most of us just get in endless arguments with her and other Baha'is.

 

[Trailblazer]

No, I was asking what is your logic that a god exists.

It just makes sense to me that there has to be a God because otherwise life would have no purpose. The materialist philosophy makes no sense to me. I believe there is a bigger purpose for living life and that is related to my beliefs about the afterlife. It makes no sense to me that we are born, we live life, and then we die for no greater purpose.

Ok, but you have not answered why it is not possible for humans to understand god directly and I still disagree that inserting one more step than necessary for communication is going to be less reliable.

I did answer that. My answer was that it is not possible for humans to understand God communicating to them directly since the mind of God is on such a higher level and is unlike a human mind. That is related to the 'nature' of God, so if you do not understand the nature of God, you will never understand why God cannot have direct intercourse with humans.

“Immeasurably exalted is He above the strivings of human mind to grasp His Essence, or of human tongue to describe His mystery. No tie of direct intercourse can ever bind Him to the things He hath created, nor can the most abstruse and most remote allusions of His creatures do justice to His being. Through His world-pervading Will He hath brought into being all created things. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His own exalted and indivisible Essence, and will everlastingly continue to remain concealed in His inaccessible majesty and glory. All that is in heaven and all that is in the earth have come to exist at His bidding, and by His Will all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being. How can, therefore, the creature which the Word of God hath fashioned comprehend the nature of Him Who is the Ancient of Days?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 318

The Baha'i belief is that God only communicates to His Messengers, who are pure and stainless Souls who have a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. It is because they have a spiritual nature unlike ours that they can understand communication from God.

“And since there can be no tie of direct intercourse to bind the one true God with His creation, and no resemblance whatever can exist between the transient and the Eternal, the contingent and the Absolute, He hath ordained that in every age and dispensation a pure and stainless Soul be made manifest in the kingdoms of earth and heaven. Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself.” Gleanings, p. 66

It is not a false equivalence. The equivalence is not humans and god but the communication type.

You are comparing apples and oranges. When you're comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing two things that are fundamentally different and, therefore, shouldn't be compared. God is fundamentally different from a human so it is false equivalence to expect God to human communication to be the same as human to human communication - direct.

False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency.[1] A colloquial expression of false equivalency is "comparing apples and oranges".

This fallacy is committed when one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result.[2] False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence doesn't bear scrutiny because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors.

False equivalence - Wikipedia

If God could communicate directly to everyone why hasn't He done so? You could say it is because God doesn't exist, but that is fallacious if you are 'assuming' that if God existed God would communicate directly to everyone, because there is no reason to assume that. That is the fallacy of unwarranted assumption.

Fallacies of unwarranted assumption occur when an argument relies on a piece of information or belief that requires further justification. The category gets its name from the fact that a person assumes something unwarranted to draw their conclusion.Jun 15, 2022

5.5 Informal Fallacies - Introduction to Philosophy | OpenStax

Why would or why should God communicate directly to everyone? Give me the justification. Because you want God to do that is not a reason. I might want a new car but that is not a good reason for me to go out and buy one.

If it is only based upon your desires, God does not act on people's desires, God only does what God chooses to do. That makes logical sense if you understand that God is sovereign.

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 284

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209

You are just special pleading for god that he cannot communicate directly with us as because he is god.

It is not special pleading because I justified the exception.

Special pleading is a form of fallacious argument that involves an attempt to cite something as an exception to a generally accepted rule, principle, etc. without justifying the exception.[1][2]

Special pleading - Wikipedia

Logic alone tells us that if there is a God, God chooses not to communicate directly to humans since there is no evidence that God has ever done so. I have explained why I believe God does not do so but since you do not accept that you will have to draw your own conclusions.

Can you give me good evidence as to why I should believe you?

You should not believe me. You should do your own independent investigation in order to determine the truth.
Baha'is call that the Independent Investigation of Truth.

What is you answer?

You can distinguish between a God that does not exist and a God that exists by doing your own independent investigation in order to determine the truth of the matter.

This assumes god exists.

No, it does not assume that God exists. I said that IF God exists God has not communicated directly to everyone because everyone does not believe in God.

I never made this claim.

Okay, I will remember that you said that, but my point still stands.

I agree, but a god could communicate to people and solve this problem as well.

You do not know that God could do that. You only believe that God could do that.
If God could do that why hasn't God done that? This is something for you to ponder.

We are back to the same problem we discussed before. How would you KNOW it was God communicating to you?
There would be no way for you to know that, you could only believe that. It is the same with believing a Messenger got a message from God.

 

[Trailblazer]

A Baha'i believes whatever the Baha'i Faith tells them to believe.

That is not true because the Baha'i Faith doesn't TELL anyone what to believe.

They are told to investigate it on their own to see if what the Baha'i Faith teaches is true. But even TB says that there is no proof, only what she claims to be evidence, his self, his revelation and his writings.

That is true.

Many of us question how logical is it to believe in a person who claims to be able to speak to God? So, some assumptions, or taking things on faith, are necessary to follow her logic.

Why is it illogical to believe that?
Some things have to be taken on faith since they can never be proven, but it is evidence-based faith.

You've already heard TB's "good" evidence, his self, his revelation and his writings. It only goes downhill from there.

What other evidence you would expect there to be IF a man was truly a Messenger of God?
I have asked this question on this forum many times but nobody has given me a reasonable answer.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It just makes sense to me that there has to be a God because otherwise life would have no purpose. The materialist philosophy makes no sense to me. I believe there is a bigger purpose for living life and that is related to my beliefs about the afterlife. It makes no sense to me that we are born, we live life, and then we die for no greater purpose.

I wish life went on forever as well. But the fact that I don't like the fact that I will not exist someday does not make eternal life true.

I did answer that. My answer was that it is not possible for humans to understand God communicating to them directly since the mind of God is on such a higher level and is unlike a human mind. That is related to the 'nature' of God, so if you do not understand the nature of God, you will never understand why God cannot have direct intercourse with humans.

I don't know how you know anything about god but ok.

“Immeasurably exalted is He above the strivings of human mind to grasp His Essence, or of human tongue to describe His mystery. No tie of direct intercourse can ever bind Him to the things He hath created, nor can the most abstruse and most remote allusions of His creatures do justice to His being. Through His world-pervading Will He hath brought into being all created things. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His own exalted and indivisible Essence, and will everlastingly continue to remain concealed in His inaccessible majesty and glory. All that is in heaven and all that is in the earth have come to exist at His bidding, and by His Will all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being. How can, therefore, the creature which the Word of God hath fashioned comprehend the nature of Him Who is the Ancient of Days?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 318

Ok, This does not sway me any. But we can disagree.

The Baha'i belief is that God only communicates to His Messengers, who are pure and stainless Souls who have a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. It is because they have a spiritual nature unlike ours that they can understand communication from God.

Ok, again this does not sway me. But we can disagree.

You are comparing apples and oranges. When you're comparing apples to oranges, you're comparing two things that are fundamentally different and, therefore, shouldn't be compared. God is fundamentally different from a human so it is false equivalence to expect God to human communication to be the same as human to human communication - direct.

False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency.[1] A colloquial expression of false equivalency is "comparing apples and oranges".

This fallacy is committed when one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result.[2] False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence doesn't bear scrutiny because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors.

False equivalence - Wikipedia

If God could communicate directly to everyone why hasn't He done so? You could say it is because God doesn't exist, but that is fallacious if you are 'assuming' that if God existed God would communicate directly to everyone, because there is no reason to assume that. That is the fallacy of unwarranted assumption.

Fallacies of unwarranted assumption occur when an argument relies on a piece of information or belief that requires further justification. The category gets its name from the fact that a person assumes something unwarranted to draw their conclusion.Jun 15, 2022

5.5 Informal Fallacies - Introduction to Philosophy | OpenStax

Why would or why should God communicate directly to everyone? Give me the justification. Because you want God to do that is not a reason. I might want a new car but that is not a good reason for me to go out and buy one.

If it is only based upon your desires, God does not act on people's desires, God only does what God chooses to do. That makes logical sense if you understand that God is sovereign.

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 284

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209

It is not special pleading because I justified the exception.

Special pleading is a form of fallacious argument that involves an attempt to cite something as an exception to a generally accepted rule, principle, etc. without justifying the exception.[1][2]

Special pleading - Wikipedia

Logic alone tells us that if there is a God, God chooses not to communicate directly to humans since there is no evidence that God has ever done so. I have explained why I believe God does not do so but since you do not accept that you will have to draw your own conclusions.

You should not believe me. You should do your own independent investigation in order to determine the truth.
Baha'is call that the Independent Investigation of Truth.

You can distinguish between a God that does not exist and a God that exists by doing your own independent investigation in order to determine the truth of the matter.

No, it does not assume that God exists. I said that IF God exists God has not communicated directly to everyone because everyone does not believe in God.

Okay, I will remember that you said that, but my point still stands.

You do not know that God could do that. You only believe that God could do that.
If God could do that why hasn't God done that? This is something for you to ponder.

We are back to the same problem we discussed before. How would you KNOW it was God communicating to you?
There would be no way for you to know that, you could only believe that. It is the same with believing a Messenger got a message from God.

You missed the part where I said I am not comparing God and humans but the communication. That is the same. You are special pleading for god because somehow he cannot communicate like everyone else only because he is a god.

I will say again, I don't know how to know if a god is communicating to me but that god should be able to convince me he is a god.

I have done my own investigation of truth and it is ever ongoing. I have concluded that there is not enough evidence to believe a god exists.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

A Baha'i believes whatever the Baha'i Faith tells them to believe.

They are told to investigate it on their own to see if what the Baha'i Faith teaches is true. But even TB says that there is no proof, only what she claims to be evidence, his self, his revelation and his writings.

This is confusing.

Many of us question how logical is it to believe in a person who claims to be able to speak to God? So, some assumptions, or taking things on faith, are necessary to follow her logic.

You've already heard TB's "good" evidence, his self, his revelation and his writings. It only goes downhill from there.

As far as organized religions go, that claim to have all the answers to fix all the world's problems and bring peace and harmony, they're not too bad. But it is an organized religion with a bunch of "God-given" rules. And to join a person has to declare their belief that the Baha'i prophet has indeed been sent from the one and only true God. Something that not one Baha'i can prove, but something they must believe.

Yeah I have been reading about the faith and it is confusing and does not seem to be consistent. But then again I don't know much about it.

Oh... and great questions. Most of us just get in endless arguments with her and other Baha'is.

Good to know. I think at this point I just need to call it good with TB

 

[Trailblazer]

I wish life went on forever as well. But the fact that I don't like the fact that I will not exist someday does not make eternal life true.

Most people would like to live forever, but I do not necessarily want to live forever since forever is a very long time! What if I don't like the spiritual world.
Of course the fact that you don't like not existing someday does not mean there is eternal life. Eternal life either exists or not.

I don't know how you know anything about god but ok.

That is explained on this website.

God communicates his will and purpose to humanity through intermediaries, known as Manifestations of God, who are the prophets and messengers that have founded religions from prehistoric times up to the present day.[5]

While God's essence is inaccessible, a subordinate form of knowledge is available by way of mediation by divine messengers, known as Manifestations of God.

The Baháʼí teachings state that God is too great for humans to create an accurate conception of. In the Baháʼí understanding, the attributes attributed to God, such as All-Powerful and All-Loving are derived from limited human experiences of power and love. Baháʼu'lláh taught that the knowledge of God is limited to those attributes and qualities which are perceptible to us, and thus direct knowledge of God is not possible. Furthermore, Baháʼu'lláh states that knowledge of the attributes of God is revealed to humanity through his messengers.[12]

From: God in the Baháʼí Faith

Ok, This does not sway me any. But we can disagree.

Ok, again this does not sway me. But we can disagree.

That is fine since I am not trying to sway you. I am just presenting my beliefs.

You missed the part where I said I am not comparing God and humans but the communication. That is the same. You are special pleading for god because somehow he cannot communicate like everyone else only because he is a god.

As I said before, that is not special pleading because I justified the special exception when I explained why God cannot communicate like everyone else.

Special pleading is an informal fallacy wherein one cites something as an exception to a general or universal principle, without justifying the special exception.[1][2][3][4][5] It is the application of a double standard.[6][7]

Special pleading - Wikipedia

I will say again, I don't know how to know if a god is communicating to me but that god should be able to convince me he is a god.

I believe that God could convince everyone that He exists, but not thorough direct communication. I believe that because it is in the Baha'i Writings. The Writings also explain why God does not do that.

The REASON that God does not prove He exists to everyone is explained below.

“He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence. “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen…” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71​

In the context of the passage above, If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people means that God could have made all people believers, but IF God has pleased, implies that God did not please to make all people into believers, which is why all men are not believers. The passage goes on to say why God didn’t want to make everyone into believers... In short, God wants us to make an effort and become believers by our own efforts (by virtue of their own innate powers).

According to this passage, God wants everyone to search for Him and determine if He exists by using their own innate intelligence and using their free will to make the decision to believe. God wants those who are sincere and truly search for Him to believe in Him. God wants to distinguish those people from the others who are not sincere, those who are unwilling to put forth any effort.

I have done my own investigation of truth and it is ever ongoing. I have concluded that there is not enough evidence to believe a god exists.

I think it is good that your investigation is ongoing because you never know what you will find if you keep looking.

 

[Bird123]

The evidence for a Messenger of God is as follows:

1. His own Self, who He was, His character (His qualities)

2. His Revelation, what He accomplished (His Mission on earth/ the history of His Cause)

3. His Writings are additional evidence because they show who He was as a person, what He taught about God and other things, and what accomplished on His mission.

@Bird123 does not have any of these, all he has is a claim that God spoke to him.

Oh, I see. Everyone is a messenger from God at some level. Since interaction creates multilevel learning, everyone is helping to lead others forward whether they realize it or not. For those you have chosen to label as evil, their message reminds people what they have learned in the past and what the best choices really are. People have learned what not to do and clearly recognize it. If God must have messengers, this is the way it is done.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

God does not need to let me know. But if god wants me to know or expects things from me then it would be the best thing to just let me know and then give me the knowledge I would have gotten on the journey to "find" him.

In this way he could make sure the communication is 100% correct. In your way there will be many that won't get this knowledge. Is that what god desires?

If it was just given to you, you would never Discover How? Why would you care how if it will all be given? You are right. Just giving you the knowledge would be much easier for you, however is it really better for you??

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Fair question.

We're told that humans are made in God's image, so it seems fair to conclude that God was inventive, industrious, clever, and easily bored. I therefore conclude that having had the fun of making the universe, [he] put it in the attic (or cellar, or barn, or wherever you put those big Christmas jigsaws that you only ever do once) and forgot about it.

That would account for why God (these days) never appears, never says, never does.

So coming back to the OP question , What does God want from you? the answer is, nothing. Same as with the jigsaw puzzle above, you do it once then move on to pastures new.


I'm not without accomplishments of a modest kind, and I'm not without some skills when it comes to entertaining myself, though I find I drink less as I age.

Are most people really easily bored? Greater knowledge and Intelligence creates more possibilities. There are more things one can do.

You are also making a Big assumption. It is an assumption I think most people make. The assumption is that God is finished creating you and people. In reality, this is the Learning stage. There is far too much to do before one gets bored just yet.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

If it was just given to you, you would never Discover How? Why would you care how if it will all be given? You are right. Just giving you the knowledge would be much easier for you, however is it really better for you??

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

So I have three children and letting them discover things on their own is great and a loving thing to do in my opinion. However, I do not let them discover how to put out a grease fire by themselves or drive a car for themselves etc. That would be terrible parenting. Figuring out what god wants seems so very important to our lives that having us discover on our own somehow is negligent.

 

[blü 2]

Are most people really easily bored? Greater knowledge and Intelligence creates more possibilities. There are more things one can do.

Yes, so when [he] was done making this universe, [he] went off to do something else somewhere else. Maybe down to the Celestial Golf Club to brag and tell jokes and have a few nectars with the other deities.

You are also making a Big assumption [...] that God is finished creating you and people. In reality, this is the Learning stage. There is far too much to do before one gets bored just yet.

People created me in reality.

However, in this particular tale for this particular thread, God created my proto-ancestors, checked [his] to-do list, nodded murmuring, That's that, then! and was up up and away.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yeah I have been reading about the faith and it is confusing and does not seem to be consistent.

The inconsistency is my complaint with the Baha'i Faith. It seems simple. There is this unknowable essence we call God. He made people without the capability to communicate him and understand him directly. So, this brilliant all-knowing God decided to create special human-like beings that had a spiritual nature that allowed them to understand and communicate with God. They were then sent by God from time to time to different places to communicate God's teachings and rules to the not so bright, not so spiritual humans.

Sounds great, except all these messengers said different things. They all contradicted each other. Ah, but the Baha'is can explain that. The special people, that Baha'is call manifestations of God, came and told people what God wanted them to know at the time. Each one had a new and different message.

But one problem, God didn't have those early messengers write down the message. The message was written down by the followers of the messenger. And of course, not being so bright, messed up what they wrote. Then on top of that, the not so bright humans misunderstood, misinterpreted, and added things into the message and messed it up even more.

God, in his infinite wisdom, thought... "I know. I'll tell may message to the next messenger, and because he's illiterate, I'll have him dictate it to some people that can write it down. Because of that, Baha'is believe the Quran is very accurate. But then God went even further to correct any possible problems. He had the next two manifestations, the Bab and Baha'u'llah, write the message themselves.

Anyway, that's how Baha'is explain the different religions and different messengers. They call it "progressive" revelation. I know it's possible that I'm wrong, because I'm one of those not so bright creations of God, but I think those early religions made up their Gods and their messengers. In fact, I think they made up a whole mythology about how everything came to be. And I think they are different and contradict each other, because different people at different times and different places made up their own versions of what is truth and what to believe. Therefore, I don't agree with the Baha'i beliefs. But what do I know.

Thanks again for asking the Baha'is the right questions. If they can't answer them adequately, then I have to doubt whether they really have The Truth from this alleged One True God.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

The inconsistency is my complaint with the Baha'i Faith. It seems simple. There is this unknowable essence we call God. He made people without the capability to communicate him and understand him directly. So, this brilliant all-knowing God decided to create special human-like beings that had a spiritual nature that allowed them to understand and communicate with God. They were then sent by God from time to time to different places to communicate God's teachings and rules to the not so bright, not so spiritual humans.

Sounds great, except all these messengers said different things. They all contradicted each other. Ah, but the Baha'is can explain that. The special people, that Baha'is call manifestations of God, came and told people what God wanted them to know at the time. Each one had a new and different message.

But one problem, God didn't have those early messengers write down the message. The message was written down by the followers of the messenger. And of course, not being so bright, messed up what they wrote. Then on top of that, the not so bright humans misunderstood, misinterpreted, and added things into the message and messed it up even more.

God, in his infinite wisdom, thought... "I know. I'll tell may message to the next messenger, and because he's illiterate, I'll have him dictate it to some people that can write it down. Because of that, Baha'is believe the Quran is very accurate. But then God went even further to correct any possible problems. He had the next two manifestations, the Bab and Baha'u'llah, write the message themselves.

Anyway, that's how Baha'is explain the different religions and different messengers. They call it "progressive" revelation. I know it's possible that I'm wrong, because I'm one of those not so bright creations of God, but I think those early religions made up their Gods and their messengers. In fact, I think they made up a whole mythology about how everything came to be. And I think they are different and contradict each other, because different people at different times and different places made up their own versions of what is truth and what to believe. Therefore, I don't agree with the Baha'i beliefs. But what do I know.

Thanks again for asking the Baha'is the right questions. If they can't, then I have to doubt whether they really have The Truth from this alleged One True God.

Thanks for more explanation. This is something I am going to study more. It seems interesting. I know mostly nothing about the faith.

 

[Bird123]

So I have three children and letting them discover things on their own is great and a loving thing to do in my opinion. However, I do not let them discover how to put out a grease fire by themselves or drive a car for themselves etc. That would be terrible parenting. Figuring out what god wants seems so very important to our lives that having us discover on our own somehow is negligent.

What if what God wants has never been what it's all about? Is that really negligent if what God wants doesn't matter?

God is Unconditional Love. The time-based causal nature of the universe is perfect for learning. This universe was never created for God. It was created for us.

Life is the education of God's children. Our actions and choices show God and the world what we know and what we need to Learn. They, alone determine our lessons. What is there to figure out? Be who you must. It's a part of the plan!! Choose freely and you will Discover what your choices and actions really mean. It's a journey to great knowledge and wisdom.

WE are not left without help. How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? God places knowledge around us all. It waits to be Discovered. One can even Discover all about God with some effort.

Adversity and challenges can be challenging. On the other hand, knowledge and wisdom is acquired along the journey to resolution. If one absolutely needs help, it will show up from somewhere. This does not mean it will be done for us. God and mankind have different goals. Mankind wants to have it made. God wants us to acquire Great Knowledge and Wisdom. Very little is learned from got it made.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Yes, so when [he] was done making this universe, [he] went off to do something else somewhere else. Maybe down to the Celestial Golf Club to brag and tell jokes and have a few nectars with the other deities.

People created me in reality.

However, in this particular tale for this particular thread, God created my proto-ancestors, checked [his] to-do list, nodded murmuring, That's that, then! and was up up and away.

When cooking, isn't there always something more to add to the soup? Why are you in so much hurry for God to move on to the golf course? How many people put off everything so they don't miss that Soap Opera??? Who cares about golf or jokes when the Big Game is on?? Why it's Thanksgiving again!!

Question is: Are you grumbling, complaining, griping refusing to act because you can't have it your way or are you living life to the fullest Learning, Growing, Interacting, and Sharing that which is Special about you with the world? Do you nurture the Goodness and Potential in yourself and others on the way to a Higher Level of Being? Are you the Hungry, Eager Student or are you the one who demands to have it made, striving to do nothing but eat junk food and watch TV?

It's all about Choices. Do you even know why you choose what you do? How well do you even know yourself???

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[blü 2]

When cooking, isn't there always something more to add to the soup?

No.

That may be because the recipe has been duly followed, that may mean I don't like the recipe's ingredient X or procedure Y, that may mean I can't be bothered too. Especially if I'm very intelligent, then I'm very efficient, and do exactly enough and no more to achieve whatever it is I want.

Why are you in so much hurry for God to move on to the golf course?

It isn't me, it's God who wants to get to the Golf Club (whether the course or the club house). [He]'s done what [he] wanted to do, already knows everything that will happen as a result, why should he hang around?

Question is: Are you grumbling, complaining, griping refusing to act

No, I'm not grumbling, I'm not complaining, I'm not refusing to act. I'm getting on with my life.

You're the one with the God hang-up. Why aren't you getting with your life instead of dreaming around?