What does God want from you?

[Trailblazer]

I don't know why a Baha'i would have a problem with this. Here's some Baha'i quotes about love...

We bow our heads in humility before the awesome majesty of the divine Creator, who out of His infinite love has created all humanity from the same stock; exalted the gemlike reality of man; honored it with intellect and wisdom, nobility and immortality; and conferred upon man the “unique distinction and capacity to know Him and to love Him,” a capacity that “must needs be regarded as the generating impulse and the primary purpose underlying the whole of creation. – The Universal House of Justice, The Promise of World Peace, p. 5.​

​

Know thou of a certainty that Love is the secret of God’s holy Dispensation… the fountain of spiritual outpourings. Love is heaven’s kindly light, the Holy Spirit’s eternal breath that vivifieth the human soul. Love is the cause of God’s revelation unto man, the vital bond inherent, in accordance with the divine creation, in the realities of things....... Abdu’l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 27.​

Please note that these quotes are referring to God's love for man, which is unconditional, not to man's love for man.
God loves everyone unconditionally. However, that does not mean God approves of all human behaviors or considers all humans equal.

“Let no one imagine that by Our assertion that all created things are the signs of the revelation of God is meant that—God forbid—all men, be they good or evil, pious or infidel, are equal in the sight of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 187

@Bird123 is saying that all humans are equal and that evil does not exist, which goes against all scriptures, and which is also not what we see in the real world.http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAB/sab-13.html

But can people really love God and all people with an unconditional love?

Those are two questions.

1. I believe that people can love God unconditionally, and there should be no 'conditions' put on our love for God, since God does not have to measure up to any human standards to be worthy of our love. Of course that does not men that everyone will love God unconditionally.

2. People can love all people unconditionally, but I do not think it is beneficial to love all people unconditionally. I believe it is a bad idea.
Abdu'l-Baha has said that we should love all people, even our enemies, but I disagree with him. I might love my enemies but I do not love evil people who hurt other people, those who commit heinous crimes like premeditated murder for personal gain.

In the following passage, Abdu'l-Baha is saying we should not show mercy, compassion, and kindness to people who have some selfish, private motive, or some disease of the soul. So we are supposed to love them? Sorry, I cannot do that because it creates too much cognitive dissonance, and besides, I cannot force myself to love everyone. I consider such an injunction absurd.

“O ye beloved of the Lord! The Kingdom of God is founded upon equity and justice, and also upon mercy, compassion, and kindness to every living soul. Strive ye then with all your heart to treat compassionately all humankind—except for those who have some selfish, private motive, or some disease of the soul. Kindness cannot be shown the tyrant, the deceiver, or the thief, because, far from awakening them to the error of their ways, it maketh them to continue in their perversity as before. No matter how much kindliness ye may expend upon the liar, he will but lie the more, for he believeth you to be deceived, while ye understand him but too well, and only remain silent out of your extreme compassion.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 158

 

[freelight]

OK. God creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

If you are an atheist, speculate. If God really exists and creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

Before you just give a quick answer, consider a Being capable of creating the universe and you has to be very very smart. Consider High Intellect with your answers. Make God's answer High Intellect.

We are all a chip off the old block, 'God' being the original essence from which all springs,....so as individual rays from that Great Central SUN....we have no choice but to be what 'God' is.....sharing the same nature, but with the added possibility of creative potential to co-create with 'God' as an extension of IT in space and time,.....all is the 'play' of 'God'. We assume 'God' allows free will to each individual unit of consciousness, having a 'personality' to operate thru, in any given lifetime. We are just avatars of that ONE.

Assuming 'God' is Infinite Intelligence, that consciousness would only have desires which would satisfy or delight its own curiosity and nature, so these COULD include every realm of possibility from the most heinous evil to the purest good (since these appear to exist in creation), since 'God' allows all to exist in any possible spectrum, in any given space or time. Who knows what 'God' wants besides all the religious programming and assumptions given by any religious cult or tradition, or our own musings. Who really knows? For all we know we are 'God' doing the figuring and desiring, for what other intelligence-source exists, and what other power of choice exists apart from 'God'? - back to us being extensions or parts and parcels of 'God' playing out all possibilities. YOU are the chooser ultimately, even if you condense that down to the 'god-particle' within you.

As more of a theosophist at heart,.....I'd say God's will is love oriented and 'good' in nature, so what he wants will always be towards the progress, evolution, flourishing of life, fullfilling itself through love and joy, allowing all potentials and possibilities to unfold in that direction to infinity. Thats the religious/philosophical answer from my own conditioning perhaps, but it feels right....that all potentials of evil or suffering would be ultimately overcome and triumphed with love's will and the highest outcome of good, JOY being the apex of life's motivation, and continual discovery of what love can know and is capable of in all situations and contexts. Thats the die-hard optimistic spiritualist within, so I'll go with that for now, unless/until something better or more profound comes to the fore

-------------o

 

[muhammad_isa]

What I meant is that we cannot know what the afterlife will be like, even though we believe it exists.

No, nobody knows for sure.

Do you believe that "you" existed before you were born?

Nobody knows for sure.

 

[Trailblazer]

No, nobody knows for sure.
Nobody knows for sure.

No, nobody knows anything for sure.

 

[Bird123]

No, I never 'jumped in' and believed the Messenger was from God. I did the necessary research before I ever believed in my religion.

I do not want payback and I don't want to hurt anyone. You took what I said and twisted it and made that all up in your own head.

I do not judge anyone. Only God can judge. I have an opinion that some people are evil from observing their behavior. Premeditated murder for sex or money is clearly evil. Rape is evil.

In your mind everyone is good and there are no bad or evil people in the world, so we should treat everyone the same, and love them unconditionally. You live in some kind of a bubble, a fantasy world you have created for yourself, since you want to believe everyone is good.

I do not think I am special to God because I believe in Messengers. The Messenger came for all of humanity. It is obvious that you are projecting your own feelings onto me. You want to be more important or special to God than others, and your 'belief' that you have a personal connection to God and you know God allows you to believe that.

This only goes from bad to worse. I do not hate anyone and I do not degrade anyone.
Some people are just evil. You don't even see it. You have no clue. You live in a bubble.
I do not hurt anyone so I am not evil.

NOBODY has ever interacted with God. You know nothing about God because you have no way to know anything.

What makes you different from the Messengers is that you never got any messages from God. You are not telling what is, you are telling what you 'believe' is. The Messengers got messages from God so they are telling what is.

What makes you different from the Messengers is that you are not placing truth in the world. The Messengers place Truth in the world.

No, this world is not about Unconditional Love because if it was there could be no justice. That is only your delusion.

4. Unconditional love undermines justice.​

There would be no sanctions or punishments for those who have hurt others. Crazy, right?

If life has purpose and meaning—which most people believe it does, there can be no such thing as an unconditional experience.

We are creatures of perception and everything has purpose and meaning.

We are confronted by conditions that invite and allow us to learn and grow.

Unconditional love wipes that out and dismisses the significance of ourselves and others as unique human beings. It makes all behaviors OK, and they are not!

4 Scary Reasons Unconditional Love Is A Dangerous Myth

It's not what you think it is...

www.yourtango.com

I do not know more because I am older but I have struggled for most of my life and I have learned through these struggles.

Nobody can study God's actions because nobody can ever know what God is doing at any time.
God does not visit anyone. That is how I know God never visited you.

I discount it because God doesn't interact with anyone. God is not a person!

You are completely clueless about who God is. God loves but God also judges and has wrath. Sorry you don't like it.
You want to like God so you created a God in your own mind, and you want others to believe in your make-believe God.

What you believe about God is your attempt to understand God, which is an exercise in futility since one can only know about God from religion.
What Messengers taught comes from God, not from humans, and later a religion is established by humans.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

What research tells you the messengers come from God? Do you discount my interaction with God simply on the belief that is impossible? Do you think it is really impossible for God? Have you placed limits and conditions now on God in order to justify your beliefs in those messengers???

Isn't your so called Justice no more than payback? Isn't wanting to hurt others that hurt no more than Hate and Revenge? Doesn't Unconditional Love work at fixing the problems rather than trying to alter the actions of others through pain and hurt? What are you teaching everyone around you when you attempt to alter the actions of others through pain? It certainly isn't goodness. On the other hand, Unconditional Love never ignores the problems. Unconditional Love works at understand the underlying causes, places truth in the world, and moves everyone toward resolution and a Higher Level of thinking and being. Choose!! Which is really the best choice?

We are all God's children. Children can make bad choices, however Unconditional Love dictates everyone will learn what their choices really mean so that, in time, all children will be able to Discover what the Best choices really are. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the best choices. There has never ever been a need to Hate or Hurt others. Because you were hurt, do you really choose to copy and hurt others too? What are they teaching you?? What are you teaching others?

Problems never go away until they are solved!! Wisdom is acquired along the journey to resolution. It might be easier to get angry hate and hurt, however nothing really gets done to solve the problems.

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts? Do you choose to hurt and hate others in order to payback and revenge or do you choose to break the cycle of hate and hurt? By choosing Unconditional Love are working toward people understanding their bad choices and leading them to the best choices. There really is no need to hate. When one understands all sides, those bad choices will no longer be viable choices they could make.

Our choices and actions show God and the world what we know and what we need to learn.

You are condemning others for bad choices. Are any of your choices worth condemning? Don't you see? Condemning and Hating will never bring the best results regardless of the excuses one comes up with in order to justify it such as Justice. Are messengers teaching payback and revenge in the name of Justice? Do you really think they come from God now? Pray tell me how???

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

From I Corinthians...
16:14 Let all that you do be done in love. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.

13:13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

13:4-8 NIV Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

I don't know why a Baha'i would have a problem with this. Here's some Baha'i quotes about love...

We bow our heads in humility before the awesome majesty of the divine Creator, who out of His infinite love has created all humanity from the same stock; exalted the gemlike reality of man; honored it with intellect and wisdom, nobility and immortality; and conferred upon man the “unique distinction and capacity to know Him and to love Him,” a capacity that “must needs be regarded as the generating impulse and the primary purpose underlying the whole of creation. – The Universal House of Justice, The Promise of World Peace, p. 5.​

​

Know thou of a certainty that Love is the secret of God’s holy Dispensation… the fountain of spiritual outpourings. Love is heaven’s kindly light, the Holy Spirit’s eternal breath that vivifieth the human soul. Love is the cause of God’s revelation unto man, the vital bond inherent, in accordance with the divine creation, in the realities of things. Love is the one means that ensureth true felicity both in this world and the next. Love is the light that guideth in darkness, the living link that uniteth God with man, that assureth the progress of every illumined soul. Love is the most great law that ruleth this mighty and heavenly cycle, the unique power that bindeth together the divers elements of this material world, the supreme magnetic force that directeth the movements of the spheres in the celestial realms. Love revealeth with unfailing and limitless power the mysteries latent in the universe. Love is the spirit of life unto the adorned body of mankind, the establisher of true civilization in this mortal world, and the shedder of imperishable glory upon every high-aiming race and nation. – Abdu’l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 27.​

​

But can people really love God and all people with an unconditional love?

You see. deep down everyone already knows Unconditional Love is the answer. On the other hand, there are so many other possible choices that people just must choose in order to Discover what those choices really are.

This physical world is about learning and growing. In time, we will all Discover that only Unconditional Love will lead to the best choices. That is where God is leading. That is where we are walking. Though we do make bad choices through our journey, God will show us what our choices really mean. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will see those bad choices are no longer viable choices one could make. We are back on track to where God walks us all.

One must not let petty things corrupt us or our thinking. It's easy to say they get away with this or they get ,why don't I get? Know there is way too much to learn in one mere physical lifetime. The journey takes many many physical lifetimes to complete. Know that between those physical lifetimes God will show you that it has never ever been about punishment and that Unconditional Love can and does exist. This is why we all want to continue our journey.

Widen your view. See this physical world for what it is. See the multilevel classroom that is working on multiple levels with multiple views. The Masterpiece stares us all in the face!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Thanks, you brought up a very good point. Things must be clearing for you. You see much!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

We are all a chip off the old block, 'God' being the original essence from which all springs,....so as individual rays from that Great Central SUN....we have no choice but to be what 'God' is.....sharing the same nature, but with the added possibility of creative potential to co-create with 'God' as an extension of IT in space and time,.....all is the 'play' of 'God'. We assume 'God' allows free will to each individual unit of consciousness, having a 'personality' to operate thru, in any given lifetime. We are just avatars of that ONE.

Assuming 'God' is Infinite Intelligence, that consciousness would only have desires which would satisfy or delight its own curiosity and nature, so these COULD include every realm of possibility from the most heinous evil to the purest good (since these appear to exist in creation), since 'God' allows all to exist in any possible spectrum, in any given space or time. Who knows what 'God' wants besides all the religious programming and assumptions given by any religious cult or tradition, or our own musings. Who really knows? For all we know we are 'God' doing the figuring and desiring, for what other intelligence-source exists, and what other power of choice exists apart from 'God'? - back to us being extensions or parts and parcels of 'God' playing out all possibilities. YOU are the chooser ultimately, even if you condense that down to the 'god-particle' within you.

As more of a theosophist at heart,.....I'd say God's will is love oriented and 'good' in nature, so what he wants will always be towards the progress, evolution, flourishing of life, fullfilling itself through love and joy, allowing all potentials and possibilities to unfold in that direction to infinity. Thats the religious/philosophical answer from my own conditioning perhaps, but it feels right....that all potentials of evil or suffering would be ultimately overcome and triumphed with love's will and the highest outcome of good, JOY being the apex of life's motivation, and continual discovery of what love can know and is capable of in all situations and contexts. Thats the die-hard optimistic spiritualist within, so I'll go with that for now, unless/until something better or more profound comes to the fore


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-------------o

Chip off the ole block. I like that and really is true since we are Spiritual beings in our true natures just like God.

We all have experienced God's Unconditional Love. That is why we all want to be just like God. In order to be Like God we all must acquire Great Wisdom and knowledge. Since Wisdom is gained along the journey to acquire knowledge, this is the path one takes.

Free will is an important factor in learning and growing. If one was not free to choose, one would just choose the opposite when one was free to choose just to Discover what was being restricted.

Since, after experiencing God's Unconditional Love and want to be just like God, We choose to be placed in a physical body to live out a physical lifetime. Why did God create this physical realm? The time-based causal nature of this universe is perfect for learning. Having been placed in a physical body, we are bound by the physical laws of this universe. Our every choice or action returns knowledge for us to learn. Through each physical lifetime, God sets the parameters and we make free choices within those parameters. We learn and grow through each lifetime on the journey to become like God.

Now a really good education must include all choices not just the good ones. People can choose some mighty hard lesson for themselves. That is why bad choices happen. On the other hand, each will Discover what those choices really mean when they return to show us what our choices really mean. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices. The bad choices will no longer be viable choices one could make. One could never be like God without Understanding it all.

One must also remember that those good choices return as well. This teaches us all to Love Unconditionally in time. After all, that is what everyone really wants returning.

You are right. The scope is much greater than people realize. There will come a time when a physical body will no longer be needed. There will also come a time, as you say, that we will create!!

Eternity has Purpose! Yes, I can see that you do see that.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

What research tells you the messengers come from God?

All the research I had to do to determine that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God. After that, I believed the other Messengers He wrote about also came from God.

Do you discount my interaction with God simply on the belief that is impossible? Do you think it is really impossible for God?

I discount it because God does not interact with humans. I do not know what is possible for God, I only know what God does not do.

Have you placed limits and conditions now on God in order to justify your beliefs in those messengers???

I don't have to put any limits on God since God puts limits on Himself.

Isn't your so called Justice no more than payback? Isn't wanting to hurt others that hurt no more than Hate and Revenge?

Justice is not payback. Justice is not hate or revenge. Revenge is payback, and Baha'is are told not to seek revenge.

“In His Tablets ‘Abdu’l-Bahá explains the difference between revenge and punishment. He affirms that individuals do not have the right to take revenge, that revenge is despised in the eyes of God, and that the motive for punishment is not vengeance, but the imposition of a penalty for the committed offence. In Some Answered Questions, He confirms that it is the right of society to impose punishments on criminals for the purpose of protecting its members and defending its existence.” The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 203​

Doesn't Unconditional Love work at fixing the problems rather than trying to alter the actions of others through pain and hurt?

Unconditional Love does not fix any problems and in cases of hardened criminals it would only maters matters worse.
Time in prison might be painful and hurt, but the criminal should have thought of that before he murdered someone, causing their family pain and hurt.

Unconditional Love never ignores the problems. Unconditional Love works at understand the underlying causes, places truth in the world, and moves everyone toward resolution and a Higher Level of thinking and being. Choose!! Which is really the best choice?

Unconditional Love does no such thing. You live in a dream world.

We are all God's children. Children can make bad choices, however Unconditional Love dictates everyone will learn what their choices really mean so that, in time, all children will be able to Discover what the Best choices really are.

Unconditional Love does no such thing. You live in a dream world.
Some people never learn, and if they do, it was not because of Unconditional Love.

When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the best choices.

So when the repeat offenders keep making the same choices to keep committing crimes those are the best choices.

There has never ever been a need to Hate or Hurt others. Because you were hurt, do you really choose to copy and hurt others too? What are they teaching you?? What are you teaching others?

Seeking justice is not about hate or hurting others.

Problems never go away until they are solved!! Wisdom is acquired along the journey to resolution. It might be easier to get angry hate and hurt, however nothing really gets done to solve the problems.

You have no solution to the problems. Wisdom is not acquired by everyone on their journey, not by those who need it most.

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts? Do you choose to hurt and hate others in order to payback and revenge or do you choose to break the cycle of hate and hurt? By choosing Unconditional Love are working toward people understanding their bad choices and leading them to the best choices.

Justice is not payback and revenge. Unconditional Love solves no problems. Understanding why people make bad choices does not lead them to make the best choices.

There really is no need to hate. When one understands all sides, those bad choices will no longer be viable choices they could make.

Then I wonder why people keep making the SAME choices.

Our choices and actions show God and the world what we know and what we need to learn.

Nobody needs to show God anything. God knows everything.

You are condemning others for bad choices. Are any of your choices worth condemning?

Can't you read? I have said this dozens of times. I am not condemning anyone since that is not my job. That is for courts of law.
I have not broken the law so my choices are not hurting anyone so they are not condemned.

Don't you see? Condemning and Hating will never bring the best results regardless of the excuses one comes up with in order to justify it such as Justice.

Don't you see? Unconditional Love will never bring the best results regardless of the excuses one comes up with in order to justify it .
Justice does not need to be justified to you. You don't write the laws and thank God for that!

Are messengers teaching payback and revenge in the name of Justice? Do you really think they come from God now? Pray tell me how???

Can't you read and understand anything? Are you dense or are you so mired in your beliefs that you cannot understand the difference between justice and payback/revenge?

 

[Aupmanyav]

That does not answer the question .. I'll assume that you haven't died before (that you can remember)
..in which case, you do but guess.

Trailblazer answered you. What I wrote does not need a special argument.

..but I have good reason to believe that the Bible and Qur'an are not works of fiction.

Tell us your good reason for not considering Bible and Qur'an as folk-tales, mythology and work of fiction. So too for Kitab-i-Aqdas.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Tell us your good reason for not considering Bible and Qur'an as folk-tales..

Can you tell me why you think that they ARE "folk-tales"?

We all know fairy tales .. everybody agrees that they are .. it is well known that they were
the writings of people's imagination.
The Bible and Qur'an, are NOT in that category, quite obviously.

 

[CG Didymus]

You see. deep down everyone already knows Unconditional Love is the answer.

And here's another NT quote about love...

NIV 1 John 4:20​

Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.​

​

NIV Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.​

And here's another Baha'i quote about love...

The Baha’i Faith aims to bring about the unity of all people – which, as Abdu’l-Baha said, can only happen through the power of love:​

​

The more love is expressed among mankind and the stronger the power of unity, the greater will be this reflection and revelation, for the greatest bestowal of God is love. Love is the source of all the bestowals of God. Until love takes possession of the heart no other divine bounty can be revealed in it.​

This strong connection between love and deeds means that love of any kind – whether it is for our parents, family, country, friend, and spouse – should lead us to action. Simply saying, “I love you,” is never enough.​

​

But I do believe that because Baha'is, Christians and others can't and don't really show love, it gives those of us that question "organized" religions another reason not to believe in them.​

 

[Aupmanyav]

Can you tell me why you think that they ARE "folk-tales"?

We all know fairy tales .. everybody agrees that they are .. it is well known that they were
the writings of people's imagination.
The Bible and Qur'an, are NOT in that category, quite obviously.

Folk-tales are old stories that people believe even though there is no proof. God, creation of the universe, Adam, Eve and Eden is a folk-tale picked up by the Jews for which there is no evidence. And that continues in Bible and Qur'an.
Is there any evidence for what is mentioned in Bible and Qur'an? Is there any evidence that Jibrael visited Mohammad or that Mohammad visited heaven riding Burraq?

 

[Trailblazer]

This strong connection between love and deeds means that love of any kind – whether it is for our parents, family, country, friend, and spouse – should lead us to action. Simply saying, “I love you,” is never enough.

But I do believe that because Baha'is, Christians and others can't and don't really show love, it gives those of us that question "organized" religions another reason not to believe in them.

I read through the post, knowing there would be a 'negative' punch line at the bottom, and I was right!

How do you know that Baha'is and Christians "can't and don't really show love?" Do you know all Baha'is and all Christians?

 

[Aupmanyav]

How do you know that Baha'is and Christians "can't and don't really show love?" Do you know all Baha'is and all Christians?

Jesus cursed the unrepentant cities and Bahaollah warned those who did not accept him as a manifestation of Allah by saying "Terrible is the retribution of Allah'.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Folk-tales are old stories that people believe even though there is no proof..

No proof of WHAT?
I mean, are you claiming that the Bible and Qur'an are just the ramblings of fools?

God, creation of the universe, Adam, Eve and Eden is a folk-tale picked up by the Jews for which there is no evidence..

..in your opinion..

And that continues in Bible and Qur'an..

It's all one big conspiracy, and thousands of people have perjured themselves, in an identical manner?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Describe this real God, so that if I encounter a real suspect I can determine whether it's God or not.

When your heart, your mind, and your eyes are open, you will know.

 

[RestlessSoul]

We have evidence of universe, but no evidence of God or soul. Or that God has been sending prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis to us? Are you going to provide some or just assert things?

The universe is evidence of God. That we are here at all is miraculous by almost any standard; your beloved science tell us this.

"The term “entropy” describes the degree of thermodynamic “disorder” in a closed system like the universe. “Maximum entropy” would describe the “heat death” of the universe (which is the state it is slowly gravitating towards). Amazingly, our universe was at its “minimum entropy” at the very beginning, which begs the question “how did it get so orderly?” Looking just at the initial entropy conditions, what is the likelihood of a universe supportive of life coming into existence by coincidence? One in billions of billions? Or trillions of trillions of trillions? Or more?

Roger Penrose, a famous British mathematician and a close friend of Stephen Hawking, wondered about this question and tried to calculate the probability of the initial entropy conditions of the Big Bang.

According to Penrose, the odds against such an occurrence were on the order of 10 to the power of 10^123 to 1.

It is hard even to imagine what this number means. In math, the value 10^123 means 1 followed by 123 zeros. (This is, by the way, more than the total number of atoms [10^79] believed to exist in the whole universe.) But Penrose's answer is vastly more than this: It requires 1 followed by 10^123 zeros.

Or consider: 10^3 means 1,000, a thousand. 10 to the 10^3 power is a number that has 1 followed by 1000 zeros. If there are six zeros, it's called a million; if nine, a billion; if twelve, a trillion and so on. There is not even a name for a number that has 1 followed by 10123 zeros.

Teleological Argument – Practical Impossibility
In practical terms, in probability theory, odds of less than 1 in 10^50 equals "zero probability". Penrose's number is more than trillion trillion trillion times less than that. In short, Penrose's number tells us that the “accidental" or "coincidental" creation of our universe is an impossibility."

Steve J. Williams, Lulu Press, 2009

 

[Aupmanyav]

I mean, are you claiming that the Bible and Qur'an are just the ramblings of fools?

Of course, fools cannot write anything like Bible or Qur'an. Smart people wrote Bible and Qur'an for the gullible.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The universe is evidence of God.

According to Penrose, the odds against such an occurrence were on the order of 10 to the power of 10^123 to 1.

Very good. I have heard 'Since there is a universe, there is a God. QED'.
Orderly? Stars exploding, galaxies smashing into each other, black holes gobbling stars. You term that as orderly!
Glaciers melting, floods, heat, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, typhoons, tornadoes,. You term that as orderly!
But still 'Big Bang' is the reigning cosmological theory.
Have you calculated how many planets are there in the universe. 100 billion to 2 trillion galaxies. If they were of the size of Milky way galaxy, each would have 100 billion stars. Calculate how many planets. And Milky way is on the smaller side. Life for sure is not all that common. It is a chance that we are here. And we are not here for all the time.

 

[Gassim]

Every person who believes in the biblical God or any god, in my opinion, has a mere belief. I assume you believe you are correct in your spiritual beliefs, but others who disagree with you believe they are correct in theirs. However, your beliefs and those of others contradict each other. Christians and other Abrahamic theists, for example, believe there is only one God, whereas Hindus, Wiccans, and other pagans believe there are many gods to choose from.

It is correct everyone what he believes he thinks he is correct. But what we need is to differentiate between the only true God and non-true gods. The only true God has unique and specific characteristics He is the only living, the eternal and He is beyond compare. Unfortunately all other gods do not enjoy of those characteristics. However, everyone is free to believe whatever he wishes because we have been given freedom of choices