What does Adi Shankara's poem, "Bhaja Govindam" mean to you?

[punkdbass]

I'm specifically curious to hear what the Bhaja Govindam means to the practicing Advaitans here, but anyone is welcome to reply. In case you are unfamiliar with the poem, you can check out a wiki article here, as well as a pdf with English translation here.

The Wiki article says the following about the significance of the poem:

This work of Adi Shankara underscores the view that devotion (Bhakti) to God, Govinda, is a vastly important part of general spirituality, as emphasised by Bhakti Yoga and the Bhakti movement. This work is generally considered a summary of Adi Shankara's Advaita Vedanta philosophy....
In this prayer, Adi Shankara emphasizes the importance of devotion for God as a means to spiritual development and to liberation from the cycle of birth and death. The prayer leaves one in no doubt that the renunciation of our egotistical differences and surrender to God makes for salvation. Many scholars hold that this composition encapsulates with both brevity and simplicity the substance of all Vedantic thought found in whatever other works that Adi Shankara wrote

And here is perhaps the most popular verse in the poem (the first verse):

"Seek Govind, Seek Govind, Seek Govind, O Fool! When the
appointed times comes (death), grammar rules surely will not
save you."

The purpose of me making this thread is not to claim Advaita is invalid, but to challenge the way we interpret and understand the philosophy of "Advaita." I do not claim to understand Advaita, for I have not deeply studied it, but this poem gives me the feeling that it's a lot bigger than many people make it out to be. Short statements like "Advaita just means everything is literally one, that you are identical with God" do not do justice, IMO, in expressing the depth of it's philosophy and practice. Thoughts?

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram punkdbass ji

.....me never argues with an advaitin , .....

only one thing one can do , ..... Baja , Baja , .....''Bhaja Govindam'' ...

will chip in latter , ...unfortunatly I have a stack of work this evening , ....hopefully will joining you soon , but will deffinatly be singing along .....

 

[Stormcry]

and what's the relation of 'Bhaj Govindam' to the Vedanta?

 

[Chakra]

There is actually debate on whether or not Adi Shankara even composed this stotram, but regardless, it is a great piece of bhakti.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram prabhu ji's

and what's the relation of 'Bhaj Govindam' to the Vedanta?

ultimate conclusion , ....Baja govindam , Baja Govindam , ....its the only way

There is actually debate on whether or not Adi Shankara even composed this stotram, but regardless, it is a great piece of bhakti.

Write it ? ....write it ....? ......this kind of stuff just springs from the heart , ...
....imagine a lifetime of trying to philosophise , teach , expound , explain , interlectualise and debate the conclusion of the vedas , .....it is enough to drive one mad , instead one just trows ones hands in the air singing Baja Govindam , ...it is a spontanious reaction to lifes frustrations , ....

any more debates with Buddhists about the ultimate voidness of all and I too will cry, ....Bhaja Govindam , ..Bhaja Govindam , ..

any more noncence debates about the superiority of one sect above another ,
....I have one answer ...Bolo ..Bolo !! .
Srinivasa Govinda Sri Venkatswara Govinda ,
Govinda Hari Govinda , .....

Bhaja Govindam, Bhaja Govindam , ...

........all over India the same conclusion is found ...

now even on the other side of the world , in reaction to all the madness

Bhaja Govindam , ...Bhaja Govindam , ...

even here in the middle of nowhere ...we are doing Harinama , ....
if sheep could dance they too would be doing Harinama , ...

Matsya Kurma Govinda
Madhusudhana Hari Govinda
Varaha Narasimha Govinda
Vamana Brughurama Govinda
.........Govinda Hari Govinda Venkataramana Govinda

Balaramanuja Govinda
Bhouddha Kalkidhara Govinda
Venuganapriya Govinda
Venkataramana Govinda
.......Govinda Hari Govinda Venkataramana Govinda

...so conclusion , ...conclusion of the vedas , ...Debate ? .....no no no !
Chant , ....its the only way

 

[ratikala]

Govinda Hari Govinda
Venkataramana Govinda ......

with english .... and beautiful Deities , ...

 

[Aupmanyav]

I'm specifically curious to hear what the Bhaja Govindam means to the practicing Advaitans here, ..

With tongue in cheek, I answer - What can a 'mudha-mati' (a person with limited knowledge) can do other than chant 'Bhaja Govindam'? Some people are so blinded by the love of the deity, for them also it is 'Bhaja Govindam'. They do not want to know any other thing. What do the intellectual discussions mean to them? And if they do 'nama-japa', in time knowledge will dawn on them.

 

[Stormcry]

Smruti say 'Without becoming Vishnu you can't worship Vishnu ' In Upanishada Bhashya, Brahmavit Adishankara says 'By contemplating the self as Vishnu, one should worship him with devotion' This Ananya bhakti Adishankar is talking about in Bhaja Govindam. Ananya means Without Second & Anya is Ignorance .. This is Vedanta However Vedanta (Upanishada) amazed by seeing how just chanting Hari Nama one crosses the ocean of sansaar.

 

[Acintya_Ash]

Namaste!

Smruti say 'Without becoming Vishnu you can't worship Vishnu ' In Upanishada Bhashya, Brahmavit Adishankara says 'By contemplating the self as Vishnu, one should worship him with devotion' This Ananya bhakti Adishankar is talking about in Bhaja Govindam. Ananya means Without Second & Anya is Ignorance .. This is Vedanta However Vedanta (Upanishada) amazed by seeing how just chanting Hari Nama one crosses the ocean of sansaar.

True, by Vishnu's grace alone one can worship Vishnu. Krishna granted Arjuna divine Vision because he was his devotee in friendly mood thereby Arjuna could see Vishnu's Absolute Form.
The word 'ananya' means Extraordinary, without deviation, etc.

Ananya Bhakti = Extraordinary Devotion!

When there is no distinction between the jiva and God, there is no bhakti. One cannot have bhakti towards oneself! Are the non-dualists worshipping themselves under a false pretense of worshipping a diety in the vyvahaarika platform, knowing well the supreme Being is none but themselves in the paramaarthika one?

 

[shivsomashekhar]

When there is no distinction between the jiva and God, there is no bhakti. One cannot have bhakti towards oneself!

That is correct.

Are the non-dualists worshipping themselves under a false pretense of worshipping a diety in the vyvahaarika platform, knowing well the supreme Being is none but themselves in the paramaarthika one?

Like you said earlier, Bhakti is only meaningful at the Vyayavharika level. Since duality is real at the Vyayavharika level, why would Bhakti be pretense?

 

[Stormcry]

The word 'ananya' means Extraordinary, without deviation, etc.Ananya Bhakti = Extraordinary Devotion!

Ananya= Na + Anya= Unique, sole, without second.

When there is no distinction between the jiva and God, there is no bhakti. One cannot have bhakti towards oneself! Are the non-dualists worshiping themselves under a false pretense of worshipping a diety in the vyvahaarika platform, knowing well the supreme Being is none but themselves in the paramaarthika one?

If you interpret Bhakti as a dualistic function of Jiva then we greatly disagree. 'NO distinction NO bhakti' This is a great misbelief. Unless one knows bhakti in its essence, one thinks bhakti as a dual function. Bhakti is there to unite with god. Once there's unification, there's no TWO. In loving devotion, devotee considers himself as the purest Atma, not Jiva.

In nutshell, Bhakti means raising oneself from Jivahood and considers oneself as Pratyagatma which is one with Vishnu. Bhakti means fixing the mind in Vishnu and not thinking anything other than Vishnu. There's only 'Vishnu Vishnu Vishnu', not 'I'm You Vishnu'. This is Ananya Bhakti. In Ananya Bhakti, the difference between devotee and god is like difference between the mouth of well and the space. 'Vasudevam Sarvam' - This is Bhakti. All is Brahman- This is Bhakti.

"He who worships god thinking 'I'm one he's another' doesn't know. He's like an animal' [B.U. 1-4-10]

"The gods oust one who knows them as different from the Self. Beings oust one who knows them as different from the Self. All ousts one who knows it as different from the Self. This Brahmana, this Kshatriya, these worlds, these gods, these beings, and this all are this Self." [BU 2-4-6]

" Samataa (Oneness) alone is the true worship of Vishnu" ( Vishnu Purana 1.17.90)

"This world is the manifestation of SarvaBhuta Vishnu. So Dnyani should see this world or Vishnu non-different from the self" ( Vishnu Purana 1.17.84 )

 

[Acintya_Ash]

Ananya= Na + Anya= Unique, without second.

ananya bhakti means Exclusive/Unique Bhakti....It means that one should simply devote onself to Sri Krishna alone without attaching oneself to material stuffs or demi gods or anyone else.

If you interpret Bhakti as a dualistic function of Jiva then we greatly disagree.

Even an Advaitin agrees with me..

Like you said earlier, Bhakti is only meaningful at the Vyayavharika level. Since duality is real at the Vyayavharika level

In nutshell, Bhakti means raising oneself from Jivahood and considers oneself as Pratyagatma which is one with Vishnu.

Krishna didn't ask Arjuna to consider himself as Vishnu but to Surrender unto him

Bhakti means fixing the mind in Vishnu and not thinking anything other than Vishnu. There's only 'Vishnu Vishnu Vishnu', not 'I'm You Vishnu'. This is Ananya Bhakti. In Ananya Bhakti, the difference between devotee and god is like difference between the mouth of well and the space. 'Vasudevam Sarvam' - This is Bhakti. All is Brahman- This is Bhakti.

That's right but the devotee doesn't have aspirations of becoming Vishnu.. he is satisfied where is..as a servant of Vishnu's Lotus Feet.
.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

The purpose of me making this thread is not to claim Advaita is invalid, but to challenge the way we interpret and understand the philosophy of "Advaita."

By "we", do you mean Advaitins? The Bhaja Govindam is a simple and short poem and I do not see how it can become the basis to challenge the interpretation and understanding of Advaita philosophy. The sutra Bhashya, the Upanishad bhashyas and Prakarana texts define the philosophy and go into a lot of depth. Poems like the Bhaja Govindam, Soundarya Lahari, etc., are not intended for proper philosophical understanding. The intended audience is different in both cases too.

I do not claim to understand Advaita, for I have not deeply studied it, but this poem gives me the feeling that it's a lot bigger than many people make it out to be. Short statements like "Advaita just means everything is literally one, that you are identical with God" do not do justice, IMO, in expressing the depth of it's philosophy and practice. Thoughts?

Short statements cannot do justice to any philosophy. Obviously, there is a lot more to it and that depth cannot be gleaned from poems like the Bhaja Govindam. I would recommend Atma Bodha or the Upadesha Sahasri. The authorship of both texts is attributed to Shankara.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

ananya bhakti means Exclusive/Unique Bhakti....It means that one should simply devote onself to Sri Krishna alone without attaching oneself to material stuffs or demi gods or anyone else.
...
That's right but the devotee doesn't have aspirations of becoming Vishnu.. he is satisfied where is..as a servant of Vishnu's Lotus Feet.
.

I agree. Bhakti is meaningful only when defined at the Vyavaharika level and at that level, the definition is practically the same in all traditions. There is a Jiva and a higher Paramatma/Ishwara and Bhakti involves worship and surrender.

In my opinion, attempting an advaita style defintion at the Paramarthika level is moot, because there is no duality at that level and therefore, there is no meaning to a concept like Bhakti. It does not serve any purpose, except cause confusion on what it means.

 

[Stormcry]

The purpose of me making this thread is not to claim Advaita is invalid, but to challenge the way we interpret and understand the philosophy of "Advaita." I do not claim to understand Advaita, for I have not deeply studied it, but this poem gives me the feeling that it's a lot bigger than many people make it out to be. Short statements like "Advaita just means everything is literally one, that you are identical with God" do not do justice, IMO, in expressing the depth of it's philosophy and practice. Thoughts?

In Advaita, Bhakti and 'All is Brahman' are not contradictory things. The purpose of Bhaja Govindam is to instill complete detachment in ignorant by making him realize how dreadful this world is. He knew that in this kaliyuga for ordinary people bhakti alone is the cause of Mukti. There's a verse in Bhagavata Mahatmya from Padma Purana.

सत्यदित्रीयुगे बोधवैरग्यी मुक्तीसाधकी
कली तु केवला भक्तिर्ब्रम्हसायुज्यकरीनी ।।

"In satya dvapar and treta yuga there were knowledge and detachment to attain liberation but in kaliyuga only bhakti(devotion) can be the cause to attain liberation of merging in Brahman"

Don't call 'All is Brahman' as an ordinary statement. Because the real nature of Vishnu is 'All is Brahman' itself..

"Worship Govinda, he's the self of all, O fool, worship Govinda, the self, other worldly things won't save you. Chant his names, you'll, as it were, ultimately merge in him"

 

[Stormcry]

Bhakti involves worship and surrender.

Surrendering means surrendering the self to omnipresent Vishnu. In Surrendering there's null pride about 'I'. Devotee constantly thinks about Vishnu's consciousness ie omnipresent consciousness alone. So it's impossible to have 'I' separate from Brahman/Vishnu.

Individual consciousness should be fixed in omnipresent, leaving behind the pride over individuality. Devotion through individual consciousness is not absolute surrendering. Absolute surrendering happens only when the mind has existence in Vishnu's consciousness only. Without destroying mind-individuality, there can not be surrendering. This is what I've learned from Bhagavata Purana.

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

"Advaita just means everything is literally one, that you are identical with God" do not do justice, IMO, in expressing the depth of it's philosophy and practice. Thoughts?

Its conception has evolved over time as it continues to do as a response to challenges from other schools of thought. Śri Śaṅkara's works leave sufficient room for a variety of interpretation and subtle re-presentations which have been utilized by subsequent scholars in very innovative ways. I'd agree that one sentence summary would not present the entire philosophy, but that is true for all other schools too. However, all other things are held to be said under vyāvahārika context, but the pāramārthika being brahman alone. So in that sense it is possible to represent the philosophy in a sentence.

Ananya Bhakti = Extraordinary Devotion!

I think ananya should be understood in the context given by Krishna
ananyāścintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate | teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yogakṣemaṁ vahāmyahaṁ ||BG-9/22

It would mean upāsana of only Kṛṣṇa, none other. For He cautions of the consequences of bhakti of others in the following line. There is definitely no identity expressed or implied - māṁ singular, janāḥ plural. Exclusive as you said would be right.

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[Stormcry]

I agree. Bhakti is meaningful only when defined at the Vyavaharika level and at that level, the definition is practically the same in all traditions. There is a Jiva and a higher Paramatma/Ishwara and Bhakti involves worship and surrender.

Yes, there's Jiva and Ishwsra. But it's not expected from Jiva to think itself different from God.This is the conclusion of Vaishnawa Purana and Upanishada. Worship in dual mode isn't authentic.

my opinion, attempting an advaita style defintion at the Paramarthika level is moot, because there is no duality at that level and therefore, there is no meaning to a concept like Bhakti. It does not serve any purpose, except cause confusion on what it means.

I agree there's no bhakti in Brahman. Bhakti is a path to achieve Brahman. Once it's achieved duality between the self and Brahman vanishes and then there's only eternal Brahman shining. And such state can be achieved by Advaita Ananya Bhakti. No any other way!

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Aupu ji

With tongue in cheek, I answer - What can a 'mudha-mati' (a person with limited knowledge) can do other than chant 'Bhaja Govindam'? Some people are so blinded by the love of the deity, for them also it is 'Bhaja Govindam'.

good try ...normaly it takes one of some inteligence to even realise that his Knowledge is limited , ....it is the blind who feel that they are possesed of the inteligence of the supreme and waste their time in futile debating , when the truely intelligent realise the true nature of the superme and surrender at his lotus feet , ....

They do not want to know any other thing. What do the intellectual discussions mean to them?

nor do they need to know , as by interlectual discussion one may perfectly decribe the apperance of the most luscious of fruits but it interlect will never allow you to taste its sweetness .

And if they do 'nama-japa', in time knowledge will dawn on them.

Hee Hee, .....funny that , I often wonder if those that beleive that we merge with the formless Brahman , might not just get a little shock


.....

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Achintya ji , ....

Namaste!

True, by Vishnu's grace alone one can worship Vishnu. Krishna granted Arjuna divine Vision because he was his devotee in friendly mood thereby Arjuna could see Vishnu's Absolute Form.

jai jai , and those granted such divine vision fall at the lotus feet of the lord ,

The word 'ananya' means Extraordinary, without deviation, etc.

Ananya Bhakti = Extraordinary Devotion!

When there is no distinction between the jiva and God, there is no bhakti. One cannot have bhakti towards oneself! Are the non-dualists worshipping themselves under a false pretense of worshipping a diety in the vyvahaarika platform, knowing well the supreme Being is none but themselves in the paramaarthika one?

I find it interesting that Shankaracharya was credited with introducing two levels of truth to Hinduism , strangly enough this was no new concept to the Buddhists Who understand that there is infact both Ultimate and conventual truths , ....so one can understand that ultimatly we are Brahman but on a conventional level , there is sepperation , we lack the omnicience of the supreme therefore to even contemplate worshiping any other than the supreme as supreme is quite abhorent .

thus to me extrordinary devotion would be as you describe , unfllinching , unwavering fully surrendered devotion to the supreme , ...Sri Krsna .......