What do you make of this...

[Runewolf1973]

A child in the sixth grade in a Sunday School in New York City, with the encouragement of her teacher, wrote to Einstein in Princeton on 19 January I936 asking him whether scientists pray, and if so what they pray for. Einstein replied as follows on 24 January 1936:

• I have tried to respond to your question as simply as I could. Here is my answer.
  Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the actions of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a supernatural Being.
  However, it must be admitted that our actual knowledge of these laws is only imperfect and fragmentary, so that, actually, the belief in the existence of basic all-embracing laws in Nature also rests on a sort of faith. All the same this faith has been largely justified so far by the success of scientific research.
  But, on the other hand, every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe -- a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive.
  It is worth mentioning that this letter was written a decade after the advent of Heisenberg's prin ciple of indeterminacy and the probabilistic interpretation of quantum mechanics with its denial of strict determinism.

 

[Comicaze247]

Einstein was a brilliant man in many ways.

Thanks for sharing that

 

[Runewolf1973]

Indeed he was...:yes:

I almost get the impression that Einstein, although it is known that he did not believe in individual "souls", still thought it possible for such thing as a Universal consciousness to exist, perhaps something like the Buddhists understand. Though that is not to put words in his mouth, that is simply the feeling that I get from reading his letter. It almost sounds vaguely like a form of pantheism or panentheism. An all encompassing spirit, or consciousness (energy, not "supernatural") that pervades all of existence. An observer. Perhaps we are part of that observer, that consciousness. Max Plank would seem to agree with him as well. But basically that is all I believe as well. I believe that everything is spirit/energy/life (all the same to me), that is why I consider myself an Animist.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Sorry, I did not realize this at first, but I should have put this thread in the Science vs Religion section instead.:bonk: Is there any possible way of fixing that?

 

[Nanda]

Sorry, I did not realize this at first, but I should have put this thread in the Science vs Religion section instead.:bonk: Is there any possible way of fixing that?

Sure.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Sure.

Thank you!

 

[tumbleweed41]

Indeed he was...:yes:

I almost get the impression that Einstein, although it is known that he did not believe in individual "souls", still thought it possible for such thing as a Universal consciousness to exist, perhaps something like the Buddhists understand. Though that is not to put words in his mouth, that is simply the feeling that I get from reading his letter. It almost sounds vaguely like a form of pantheism or panentheism. An all encompassing spirit, or consciousness (energy, not "supernatural") that pervades all of existence. An observer. Perhaps we are part of that observer, that consciousness. Max Plank would seem to agree with him as well. But basically that is all I believe as well. I believe that everything is spirit/energy/life (all the same to me), that is why I consider myself an Animist.

Don't want to take up a lot of space so here is a link to four letters written by Einstein on the subject of science and religion.

Albert Einstein: Religion and Science

What I see is that he believed scientific understanding could lead to religious understanding of the nature of God, stripped of all myths.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Don't want to take up a lot of space so here is a link to four letters written by Einstein on the subject of science and religion.

Albert Einstein: Religion and Science

What I see is that he believed scientific understanding could lead to religious understanding of the nature of God, stripped of all myths.

That is what I believe also. If there is such thing as a universal "consciousness", or "spirit", it is not "supernatural". If the day comes that science discovers such thing as consciousness without a brain, it is because it was natural to exist in the first place. I do not believe in the "supernatural". It would seem, however, that even the scientists agree, "there must be something else". That makes it scientifically possible. It is true that Einstein wrote many letters on the subject, some of which seem to contradict each other, but perhaps that's what make science so interesting. I don't think Einstein would write anything if he did not believe it were to be logical in some manner.

 

[LuisDantas]

But, on the other hand, every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe -- a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive.

So Einstein was either a Deist or a Pantheist? Interesting. Nevertheless, he is quite wrong in claiming that to be an universal among serious scientists.

It is worth mentioning that this letter was written a decade after the advent of Heisenberg's prin ciple of indeterminacy and the probabilistic interpretation of quantum mechanics with its denial of strict determinism.

Which is often and wildly misinterpreted and wrongly extrapolated itself, by the way...

 

[Runewolf1973]

So Einstein was either a Deist or a Pantheist? Interesting. Nevertheless, he is quite wrong in claiming that to be an universal among serious scientists.



Which is often and wildly misinterpreted and wrongly extrapolated itself, by the way...

I never said Einstein was a Deist or Pantheist, only that by this letter, it sounded familiar. Perhaps to be a "serious scientist", one must first question even logic itself.

 

[MysticPhD]

I never said Einstein was a Deist or Pantheist, only that by this letter, it sounded familiar. Perhaps to be a "serious scientist", one must first question even logic itself.

Einstein has been quoted as saying(to paraphrase) . . . the true mystery about the universe is that we are ABLE to understand it at all. This refers to our use of logic, mathematics, and the inherent structure and consistency (parameters, "laws," etc.) in the universe that enables us to predict anything. He knew that such things needed a universal field as the foundation of such structure . . . and there was no measurable field sufficient to account for the entire universe.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Einstein has been quoted as saying(to paraphrase) . . . the true mystery about the universe is that we are ABLE to understand it at all. This refers to our use of logic, mathematics, and the inherent structure and consistency (parameters, "laws," etc.) in the universe that enables us to predict anything. He knew that such things needed a universal field as the foundation of such structure . . . and there was no measurable field sufficient to account for the entire universe.

That is true. Science and logic only take us so far. There is much more left to explore in the Universe. I hope I understood you correct.

 

[Solveigh79]

So this letter from this sixth grader was answered in a rather lofy way but he admitted that they do not know everything! Wow, now wasn't that something.
I suppose that sometimes people who are the most intelligent have book knowlege and that is not bad, but there is a danger of relying on one self as well. We don't know everything, there is a great universe and so much untapped knowlege that only GOD has and we would do well to realize this. I have often heard it said that brillant people have little common sense, there are many types of knowledge and it is good to be able to appreciate those differences I suppose. The Bible says that the secret things belong to the Lord. I believe that the Lord GOD is just waiting on those who would be bold enough to seek him and believe that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. I believe he is just waiting for those who will reveal many things to those who he feels he can trust.