What do you, as an Orthodox Jew, believe about creation?

[ZooGirl02]

Hey everyone! What do you, as an Orthodox Jew, believe about the creation of the world?

 

[Zardoz]

Through Evolution, as the only thing not created from something else was Light.

That's why I feel participation in the 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' forum here on RF is a waste of time, as neither group there is willing to consider this stand.

I've posted on this in my DIR:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/messianic-judaism-dir/77231-understanding-creation.html

 

[ZooGirl02]

Through Evolution, as the only thing not created from something else was Light.

That's why I feel participation in the 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' forum here on RF is a waste of time, as neither group there is willing to consider this stand.

I've posted on this in my DIR:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/messianic-judaism-dir/77231-understanding-creation.html

Ah okay thanks Zardoz! But you're a Messianic Jew, right? I mean, isn't that different from an Orthodox Jew? When I say "Orthodox Jew", I mean non-Messianic Orthodox Jews. But regardless, I certainly welcome your opinion! :yes:

 

[Zardoz]

Ah okay thanks Zardoz! But you're a Messianic Jew, right? I mean, isn't that different from an Orthodox Jew? When I say "Orthodox Jew", I mean non-Messianic Orthodox Jews. But regardless, I certainly welcome your opinion! :yes:

I was born & raised Orthodox, and still consider myself one today, in addition to being Reform (by Temple affiliation) and Messianic. (by theosophy)

The post that I quote is 0% Messianic actually, it's all from the Sephardic traditions I was taught.

 

[Yona]

I think that this whole 'creation vs. the theory of evolution' thing is a false dichotomy, assuming the theory of evolution is 'true' (and I do think that it probably is true), it only explains how G-d's creation functions and doesn't in any way talk about what started it all or any of that. Whether or not G-d exists is a philosophical debate, not a scientific one.

 

[Ben Masada]

Hey everyone! What do you, as an Orthodox Jew, believe

about the creation of the world?

The Double Allegory of Creation
There are three stages for the account of Creation in Genesis: Two allegories and the Reality which the allegories point to: Man as the theme of Creation.

The first allegory in the Genesis account of Creation is in the letter of the account, and here abide the masses of religious people for taking the account at its face value.
I mean, Adam and Eve in the Garden being provided by God with all their needs, being told what's allowed and forbidden in the Garden, being misled by the serpent into eating of a forbidden tree, and eventually being punished with different kinds of punishments respectively on all three of them, etc. Just literally as it is written.

The second allegory has still the same elements and God is still figured anthropomorphically, but the meaning of the actions and behaviour depicts a more logical version of what happened in the Garden. And here abide those who can think more logically, abbeit not in the archtype level of Reality. In this phase of the account of Creation in Genesis, after God created Adam and Eve, He granted them with freewill and expected to be served and sought after by them, but the thing was not working. God would have to search for them and that was not the right method. They would have to become proficient and leave the Garden in order to seek for God in terms of growing in knowledge out in the greater world.

Then, among the many fruit trees in the Garden, God planted a most beautiful of all the trees with fruits much more alluring, and right in the middle of the Garden, so that it would easily call their attention. It was the tree of knowledge. But it was not working. Then, God told them that the fruit of that tree was forbidden under penalty of death, but just in the hope that the warning would make them curious and go for it. It was not working either.

Nex, God doubled in Eve the emotion of curiosity so that she would go for it and entice Adam into eating of that tree. However, God had underestimated Eve's emotion of love. She had fallen in love with her man and she would never risk loosing him for no stupid fruit even if it looked the most appetitizing of all. Obviously, it didn't work.

The next step was to use the services of the serpent to persuade Eve that she had misunderstood the prohibition. That what would die in them was not themselves but their stupid innocence and naivete. Then, the serpent showed up on the very tree and somehow called for Eve's attention. As she approached, the dialogue started. To instigate the conversation, the serpent started with a question which surely would require an explanation. "Is it that you guys cannot eat from the trees in the Garden?" Bingo! Eve was locked in. The serpent got Eve to talk by explaining that only from the tree of knowledge, they were forbidden. "Why?" the serpent retortted. "Because we would die," she said. "Nonsense!" said the serpent. "You have misunderstood the whole thing. God meant to say that you two will become like gods, knowing good from evil." Without much ado, Eve reached for the fruit, ate it and told Adam that it was okay. Adam thought for a second and came to the conclusion that even if it was not okay, he would rather die with her beloved who had just enjoyed half of a fruit. Then he ate the other half and went on eating more. The serpent was right. They did not die. And the first knowledge they acquired was of how much they did not know. I mean, that they were naked, completely destitute of knowledge.

It didn't take too long for God to appear in the Garden to collect the fruit of His enterprise. It had finally happened what He wanted without His having to do anything against man's freewill. Then, He formally defined some punishments to everyone according to their nature anyway, and got them out of the Garden into the greater world out there, so that they would grow in knowledge by seeking for God, which would be the right method.

Now, the third phase or Reality, the account of Creation is supposed to point to. I mean, the Humanistic approach, which is the purpose of the double allegory. The riddle points to the three phases in the development of man: Childhood, adulthood, and old age. Here, only the enlightened with Philosophical training dwells. I mean, the Theist who is big enough not to let him or herself be intoxicated by blind faith. In this class we can find also Atheists and Agnostics but under the subclass of sarchasm for not being able to harmonize enlightenment with the conception of God free of anthropomorphism.

Childhood is understood by that phase in the Garden when God would have to provide man with everything. That's the phase when we are dependent on our parents or on others for all our needs. That's the phase of walking on our four legs.

Adulthood is applied to that time when man ate of the tree of knowledge and became conscious of himself. That's when we actually become an adult and responsible for our own actions. I mean, when we can stand on our own two legs, so to speak.

Regarding the phase of old age, the allegory of Creation does not go into details, but it's when we become dependent again on others, especailly our children to take
care of us. I mean, the phase of walking on two legs and a cane.

Ben

 

[UserName:]

Hey everyone! What do you, as an Orthodox Jew, believe about the creation of the world?

The world was created in 6 days.

 

[Badran]

***Mod post***

This is the Orthodox Judaism DIR. Members who do not belong to that path are only allowed to post respectful questions. Please keep in mind rule 10 everyone. ​

 

[yochai50]

It says in the Gemara Rosh Hashanah that G-d created the world fully mature. Therefor, when the world was done being created it was already billions of years old. All within a period of 6 days. To my knowledge, all Rabbonim unanimously agree that the world was created in 6 24 hour days. Until the question of evolution came up, this belief was for the most part a given. Perhaps you can find some different mefarshim who bring down suggestions for other opinions, but no one is going to say that it couldn't of been within 6 24 hour days.

In my own opinion, the days being "extremely long" is just a response of apologetics. Not saying it isn't possible. But, in what I've seen this idea is completely new within the Jewish world and didn't come about until people started questioning the age of the universe and studying evolution. If it is true that most peoples convictions leading them to this answer are rooted as a response to uncertainty, which usually is the case with these claims (in my experience), I would have to say that the people who make this claim are ignorant of Torah. I don't claim to be a chocham by any means. In fact, I'm far from it. But, the Gemara says the world was created fully mature. Since it says this, why couldn't it be that there is such a thing as cosmic evolution, biological evolution, etc etc etc and be compatible with Torah - without having to compromise the views we've always had? If the world is 6 billion years old but the Torah says its 6 literal days old, they're both right. Evolution would have to have been created as functional if the world were created fully mature.

 

[dantech]

It says in the Gemara Rosh Hashanah that G-d created the world fully mature. Therefor, when the world was done being created it was already billions of years old. All within a period of 6 days. To my knowledge, all Rabbonim unanimously agree that the world was created in 6 24 hour days. Until the question of evolution came up, this belief was for the most part a given. Perhaps you can find some different mefarshim who bring down suggestions for other opinions, but no one is going to say that it couldn't of been within 6 24 hour days.

In my own opinion, the days being "extremely long" is just a response of apologetics. Not saying it isn't possible. But, in what I've seen this idea is completely new within the Jewish world and didn't come about until people started questioning the age of the universe and studying evolution. If it is true that most peoples convictions leading them to this answer are rooted as a response to uncertainty, which usually is the case with these claims (in my experience), I would have to say that the people who make this claim are ignorant of Torah. I don't claim to be a chocham by any means. In fact, I'm far from it. But, the Gemara says the world was created fully mature. Since it says this, why couldn't it be that there is such a thing as cosmic evolution, biological evolution, etc etc etc and be compatible with Torah - without having to compromise the views we've always had? If the world is 6 billion years old but the Torah says its 6 literal days old, they're both right. Evolution would have to have been created as functional if the world were created fully mature.

This is very much true, according to Orthodox Jews.

 

[CMike]

None of the above.

There is discussion in how long a day actually was.