Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Go on ahead.That's mainly because the whole concept of a 'rational soul' is so nebulous to be untestable.
Which is a very good reason to reject it.
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Go on ahead.That's mainly because the whole concept of a 'rational soul' is so nebulous to be untestable.
Which is a very good reason to reject it.
Complete non-existence of any evidence for the existence of that person. Or you think that there is an elephant in my or your room?What's the evidence for that?
Val, after about six or eight weeks, when the fetus starts developing a brain, it is self-aware, conscious and has self interest, that is why it squirms. It is a person.If Self-awareness, consciousness, anticipation of futurity, and self-interest be the prerequisites, my cat is a person, but not my vegetative grandma -- or a foetus.
Dictionaries can be edited. No problem about that. They are not words of any God or Allah, prophet, son, messenger, manifestation or mahdi.But they do not meet the requirements of the dictionary definition.
Yeah, there may be a difference on capacity but not on quality. At least they do not have a confused mind as most humans have. Being able to think beyond reality is a disadvantage also. That creates Gods, Allah, soul, prophets, son, messenger, manifestation, mahdi, heavens, hells, divine kingdoms, ghosts, djinns and 'HEAVENLY MAIDENS'. Flights of imagination.Animals do not have the same capacity to be rational that humans have, but it seems like some animals are more rational than some humans, since not all humans use their capacity.
If Mendeleev and his successors could not discover the 'spiritual elements', how did you discover them?No, they did not miss out, but they cannot discover elements that are not in THIS world.
You have a point there. That's probably why animals are generally happy as long as they have their basic needs met. Humans are more complex because they have wants and needs.Yeah, there may be a difference on capacity but not on quality. At least they do not have a confused mind as most humans have.
The ability to think beyond what we see in the material reality can be either a disadvantage or an advantage, depending upon what you are thinking about. I'd much rather be thinking about the spiritual world than this physical reality because the latter has brought me mostly pain.Being able to think beyond reality is a disadvantage also. That creates Gods, Allah, prophets, son, messenger, manifestation and mahdi. Flights of imagination.
I didn't.If Mendeleev and his successors could not discover the 'spiritual elements', how did you discover them?
Then who? Some uneducated 19th Century Iranian?I didn't.
It hasn't been demonstrated that my toaster doesn't have a soul, either, but it wouldn't be reasonable to assume a quality exists till it's shown not to. It works the other way round.No, it hasn't but it also hasn't been demonstrated that they do.
Why would it be reasonable to assume that?Neither has my toaster, but it wouldn't be reasonable to assume a quality exists till it's shown not to.
A non-specialized dictionary shows the current, common usage of a term. In technical discussion, a more specific, technical definition is useful.But they do not meet the requirements of the dictionary definition.
person
[ pur-suhn ]
See synonyms for: person / people / persons on Thesaurus.com
noun
a human being, whether an adult or child: The table seats four persons.
a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing.
an individual human being who likes or prefers something specified (used in combination): I've never been a cat person.
Sociology. an individual human being, especially with reference to his or her social relationships and behavioral patterns as conditioned by the culture.
Philosophy. a self-conscious or rational being.
the actual self or individual personality of a human being: You ought not to generalize, but to consider the person you are dealing with.
Definition of person | Dictionary.com
Assuming everything is true till it's demonstrated not to be so is unworkable. Your head would explode.Why would it be reasonable to assume that?
I fully agree.Assuming everything is true till it's demonstrated not to be so is unworkable. Your head would explode.
The reasonable approach is to accept those things for which there's credible evidence, and withhold belief in the unevidenced till evidence appears.
Even six or eight weeks after birth, a baby doesn't grasp even simple concepts like object permanence, ego autonomy, time/futurity, conservation of space or volume, &c.Val, after about six or eight weeks, when the fetus starts developing a brain, it is self-aware, conscious and has self interest, that is why it squirms. It is a person.
They do not have analytical abilities.
They also cannot discover the realty of things, such as knowing why they were created, their purpose in life.
Lucky them.They also cannot believe in God.
So, now, just having a soul isn't good enough. It has to be a rational soul.
It means the same thing.
Hmm. Didn't see the word "soul" anywhere in that definition. Are you sure that's the one you want to use?But they do not meet the requirements of the dictionary definition.
person
[ pur-suhn ]
See synonyms for: person / people / persons on Thesaurus.com
noun
a human being, whether an adult or child: The table seats four persons.
a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing.
an individual human being who likes or prefers something specified (used in combination): I've never been a cat person.
Sociology. an individual human being, especially with reference to his or her social relationships and behavioral patterns as conditioned by the culture.
Philosophy. a self-conscious or rational being.
the actual self or individual personality of a human being: You ought not to generalize, but to consider the person you are dealing with.
Definition of person | Dictionary.com
I suppose so in a general way. Tact and honesty must not be criteria either if we use him as a model.Quite good , but there are exceptions. Trump, for example has no empathy, but is generally considered sentient.
That is true about animals, but they do not have the same capacity to analyze that humans have. They can only operate within their own sphere whereas humans can analyze anything in the world.Nonsense. Squid are very good at analyzing situations and processing them. Many animals have learned to use sticks to, for example, get honey. Others use stones to break things open.
You need to watch a few nature shows.
I already know the purpose for which I was created because that is in the Baha'i Short Obligatory prayer.Let me know when you know why you were created and what your purpose in life is.
In a sense yes, they are lucky, because they do not have to measure up to God's standards and sacrifice what they want in so doing.Lucky them.
Having a rational soul does not mean all people are rational, it just means that everyone has the capacity to be rational, to act in accordance with reason or logic. Obviously not everyone uses their capacity, either because emotions get in the way or because they believe irrational things they have been taught and they do not bother to reconsider; they just believe without thinking about why.That tells a lot about your mindset. Are all people rational? Are all ideas rational? OF course not. So why would you believe that all souls are rational?
Philosophy. a self-conscious or rational being is the definition I want to use because a soul is a self-conscious rational being.Hmm. Didn't see the word "soul" anywhere in that definition. Are you sure that's the one you want to use?