What Being a Conservative in Britain Used to Mean

[exchemist]

I have just watched an hour long interview with Dominic Grieve, who was for 4 years the UK's Attorney General in David Cameron's government. He was chucked out of the Conservative party by Bozo, after he opposed Bozo's attempt to prorogue Parliament and subsequently got deselected by his local party and thus lost his seat. As I listened, I felt the way in which the Tory party changed, turning him from a mainstream One Nation Tory into a rebel outsider, reflects almost exactly what I feel has happened to me politically, over the last few years.

In the video from about 19:00 to 20:40 or so, he articulates fairly accurately my own political position. He references respect for existing institutions and for tradition and proposes pragmatic intervention to improve the way society works. Here is the interview:

The curious thing is that today, without having changed my views in the least, I find myself a Labour supporter! (By the way this is also true of my brother, who has aways been to the right of me - though in his constituency it makes more sense to vote Lib Dem than Labour.) On this forum, with its heavy US influence, I am seen as definitely left of centre. This is rather an odd experience for someone approaching 70.

The conclusion I draw from Grieve's experience and my own is that Tory politics - perhaps Western politics in general - has been captured by a new radical Right that is not in fact in the least bit "conservative" in the true meaning of the term.

I've always had a lot of time for Dominic Grieve. He is highly articulate, speaking with clarity and precision as befits the senior barrister (KC) that he is and I've always found him to talk with honesty and sense. (Curiously as well, though, I discovered from this interview that Grieve, who is 2 years younger than I, went both to my school and to my university and that, like me, he has family connections to France. We have more in common than I had realised.)

I suppose in a way this post is a lament for the death of moderate conservatism.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

I have just watched an hour long interview with Dominic Grieve, who was for 4 years the UK's Attorney General in David Cameron's government. He was chucked out of the Conservative party by Bozo, after he opposed Bozo's attempt to prorogue Parliament and subsequently got deselected by his local party and thus lost his seat. As I listened, I felt they way in which the Tory party changed, turning him from a mainstream One Nation Tory into a rebel outsider, reflects almost exactly what I feel has happened to me politically, over the last few years.

In the video from about 19:00 to 20:40 or so, he articulates fairly accurately my own political position. He references respect for existing institutions and for tradition and proposes pragmatic intervention to improve the way society works. Here is the interview:

The curious thing is that today, without having changed my views in the least, I find myself a Labour supporter! (By the way this is also true of my brother, who has aways been to the right of me - though in his constituency it makes more sense to vote Lib Dem than Labour.) On this forum, with its heavy US influence, I am seen as definitely left of centre. This is rather an odd experience for someone approaching 70.

The conclusion I draw from Grieve's experience and my own is that Tory politics - perhaps Western politics in general - has been captured by a new radical Right that is not in fact in the least bit "conservative" in the true meaning of the term.

I've always had a lot of time for Domininc Grieve. He is highly articulate, speaking with clarity and precision as befits the senior barrister (KC) that he is and I've always found him to talk with honesty and sense. (Curiously as well, though, I discovered from this interview that Grieve, who is 2 years younger than I, went both to my school and to my university and that, like me, he has family connections to France. We have more in common than I had realised.)

I suppose in a way this post is a lament for the death of moderate conservatism.

Very nice, and very true for the US as well. President Ford was a normal Republican after the corruption of Nixon. But Reagan was a hard right-hand turn away from what sanity the conservatives may have had in hand.
Bush Sr. was a nice refreshing splash of what good a Republican could do, but it was too late by then, as Reaganism had the right far too intoxicated with what the money from their plutocratic masters could get away with.
Since Bush Sr., there have been no conservative US Republican Presidents: just idiot puppets speaking (and granting laws) for their owners; that have only benefitted the meteoric rise of the new American aristocracy. This of course, has only weakened our formerly great nation, completely at the expense of the middle class.

 

[Left Coast]

I have just watched an hour long interview with Dominic Grieve, who was for 4 years the UK's Attorney General in David Cameron's government. He was chucked out of the Conservative party by Bozo, after he opposed Bozo's attempt to prorogue Parliament and subsequently got deselected by his local party and thus lost his seat. As I listened, I felt they way in which the Tory party changed, turning him from a mainstream One Nation Tory into a rebel outsider, reflects almost exactly what I feel has happened to me politically, over the last few years.

In the video from about 19:00 to 20:40 or so, he articulates fairly accurately my own political position. He references respect for existing institutions and for tradition and proposes pragmatic intervention to improve the way society works. Here is the interview:

The curious thing is that today, without having changed my views in the least, I find myself a Labour supporter! (By the way this is also true of my brother, who has aways been to the right of me - though in his constituency it makes more sense to vote Lib Dem than Labour.) On this forum, with its heavy US influence, I am seen as definitely left of centre. This is rather an odd experience for someone approaching 70.

The conclusion I draw from Grieve's experience and my own is that Tory politics - perhaps Western politics in general - has been captured by a new radical Right that is not in fact in the least bit "conservative" in the true meaning of the term.

I've always had a lot of time for Domininc Grieve. He is highly articulate, speaking with clarity and precision as befits the senior barrister (KC) that he is and I've always found him to talk with honesty and sense. (Curiously as well, though, I discovered from this interview that Grieve, who is 2 years younger than I, went both to my school and to my university and that, like me, he has family connections to France. We have more in common than I had realised.)

I suppose in a way this post is a lament for the death of moderate conservatism.

Thanks for this. As someone who grew up a conservative American, I relate to feeling like the party I was part of had lost the plot. For me it started around 2010 with the advent of the Tea Party people.

 

[Altfish]

I have just watched an hour long interview with Dominic Grieve, who was for 4 years the UK's Attorney General in David Cameron's government. He was chucked out of the Conservative party by Bozo, after he opposed Bozo's attempt to prorogue Parliament and subsequently got deselected by his local party and thus lost his seat. As I listened, I felt they way in which the Tory party changed, turning him from a mainstream One Nation Tory into a rebel outsider, reflects almost exactly what I feel has happened to me politically, over the last few years.

In the video from about 19:00 to 20:40 or so, he articulates fairly accurately my own political position. He references respect for existing institutions and for tradition and proposes pragmatic intervention to improve the way society works. Here is the interview:

The curious thing is that today, without having changed my views in the least, I find myself a Labour supporter! (By the way this is also true of my brother, who has aways been to the right of me - though in his constituency it makes more sense to vote Lib Dem than Labour.) On this forum, with its heavy US influence, I am seen as definitely left of centre. This is rather an odd experience for someone approaching 70.

The conclusion I draw from Grieve's experience and my own is that Tory politics - perhaps Western politics in general - has been captured by a new radical Right that is not in fact in the least bit "conservative" in the true meaning of the term.

I've always had a lot of time for Domininc Grieve. He is highly articulate, speaking with clarity and precision as befits the senior barrister (KC) that he is and I've always found him to talk with honesty and sense. (Curiously as well, though, I discovered from this interview that Grieve, who is 2 years younger than I, went both to my school and to my university and that, like me, he has family connections to France. We have more in common than I had realised.)

I suppose in a way this post is a lament for the death of moderate conservatism.

The problem is our electoral system, FPtP favours the big parties, in particular the Tories. How can a party that won less than 44% of the vote have a massive 80 seat majority in parliament?
The drift right for the Tories is caused by Farage and the anti-immigration parties that steal votes from the Tories unless they have policies that win them over.
I've been meaning to watch that video, not got round to it yet.

 

[rocala]

I have never been a conservative yet I believe that I understand your position. Back in my teens in the 1970's I had a very good friend, something of a mentor in fact, he was very much of the left. Surprisingly he spoke of various conservatives with great warmth. Obviously he did not agree with them but he had great respect for people of principle, especially those involved with good works. I learnt a wonderful lesson there. Sadly I rarely see the type that met his approval now.

 

[Rival]

The conclusion I draw from Grieve's experience and my own is that Tory politics - perhaps Western politics in general - has been captured by a new radical Right that is not in fact in the least bit "conservative" in the true meaning of the term.

@Vouthon and I have always disliked what we term neo-liberalism. I'm a Disraelite, and so goodness knows where I belong now.

 

[Left Coast]

@Vouthon and I have always disliked what we term neo-liberalism. I'm a Disraelite, and so goodness knows where I belong now.

Members of the New Right/alt-right/whatever this wave of anti-intellectual, populist, nationalist ideology is, is similarly disdainful of "neo-liberalism." It's too international (i.e, actually liberal) and "elitist" for them.

 

[Eddi]

I don't have a problem with conservatism if it's an ideology rather than a project that's all about serving certain interests

Can't stand the Tory party though

 

[RestlessSoul]

@Vouthon and I have always disliked what we term neo-liberalism. I'm a Disraelite, and so goodness knows where I belong now?

In the 19th century?

 

[Rival]

In the 19th century?

As then do the Marxists.

 

[exchemist]

@Vouthon and I have always disliked what we term neo-liberalism. I'm a Disraelite, and so goodness knows where I belong now.

I think Disraeli was the founder of the One Nation strand of British Conservatism: One-Nation Conservative.

So you and I could be politically homeless. Starmer is aiming to move Labour to the centre to catch us. I am throwing my lot in with him at the forthcoming election, as I did with Tony Blair in 1997. I cannot ever see myself voting "Conservative" again, now that it has morphed into a kind of boorish English nationalist party with no respect for law.

 

[exchemist]

In the 19th century?

She does. Or rather in the Middle Ages.

I feel as if I should dress like Robin Hood when we meet. Or Friar Tuck, except I have not the "physical presence" for that.

 

[Rival]

I think Disraeli iwas the founder of the One Nation strand of British Conservatism: One-Nation Conservative.

So you and I could be politically homeless. Starmer is aiming to move Labour to the centre to catch us. I am throwing my lot in with him at the forthcoming election, as I did with Tony Blair in 1997. I cannot ever see myself voting "Conservative" again, now that it has morphed into a kind of boorish English nationalist party with no respect for law.

For the first time in my life I actually considered not voting. I'm not sure I could conscience either. I've been an either or voter, but nominally a conservative.

 

[Rival]

In the 19th century?

I am from the Gothic age and have no idea what's going on around me.

What happened to the 12 day Christmas party? Why is no-one speaking French?

 

[exchemist]

Very nice, and very true for the US as well. President Ford was a normal Republican after the corruption of Nixon. But Reagan was a hard right-hand turn away from what sanity the conservatives may have had in hand.
Bush Sr. was a nice refreshing splash of what good a Republican could do, but it was too late by then, as Reaganism had the right far too intoxicated with what the money from their plutocratic masters could get away with.
Since Bush Sr., there have been no conservative US Republican Presidents: just idiot puppets speaking (and granting laws) for their owners; that have only benefitted the meteoric rise of the new American aristocracy. This of course, has only weakened our formerly great nation, completely at the expense of the middle class.

I always thought Reagan was a bit like Thatcher: socially conservative but economically liberal. I voted for Thatcher several times. The change now is of a different order: trashing the institutions, cooking a snook at proper procedure, blatant personal corruption and cults of personality, all underpinned by dogwhistle racism, xenophobia and the normalisation of vicious behaviour.

 

[exchemist]

I am from the Gothic age and have no idea what's going on around me.

What happened to the 12 day Christmas party? Why is no-one speaking French?

My son and I observe the 12 days of Christmas still. The tree comes down at Epiphany.

 

[Rival]

I always thought Reagan was a bit like Thatcher: socially conservative but economically liberal. I voted for Thatcher several times. The change now is of a different order: trashing the institutions, cooking a snook at proper procedure, blatant personal corruption and cults of personality, all underpinned by dogwhistle racism, xenophobia and the normalisation of vicious behaviour.

What I dislike are all these overt attacks on 'capitalism', as though capitalism is a single ideology, not an economic model that can be fit into many different forms of government. I am a capitalist and I am tired of being tarred with the brush of 'so you think people being no-fault evicted is fine?' etc. Or being told I dislike poor people or welfare. I understand many Catholics see it as impossible to be a capitalist and a Catholic, but the Anglican view is very different. Trying to destroy capitalism is not the answer. It didn't work last time.

 

[RestlessSoul]

She does. Or rather in the Middle Ages.

I feel as if I should dress like Robin Hood when we meet. Or Friar Tuck, except I have not the "physical presence" for that.

You could maybe try a tonsure?

 

[exchemist]

What I dislike are all these overt attacks on 'capitalism', as though capitalism is a single ideology, not an economic model that can be fit into many different forms of government. I am a capitalist and I am tired of being tarred with the brush of 'so you think people being no-fault evicted is fine?' etc. Or being told I dislike poor people or welfare. I understand many Catholics see it as impossible to be a capitalist and a Catholic, but the Anglican view is very different. Trying to destroy capitalism is not the answer. It didn't work last time.

I don't think there is any particular view about this sort of thing in Catholicism. It's a question about economic systems, not religion. With my experience of the 1960s and 1970s in Britain, and looking at the Warsaw Pact falling farther and farther behind, it was for me obvious that capitalism is the route to prosperity for a country. But equally obviously, it needs regulation and taxation to distribute the resulting wealth through society and prevent abuses, without doing it to such a degree that it snuffs out commercial initiative. That's the One Nation Conservative attitude, I think. The wealthy ought to feel a sense of obligation to those less fortunate. That has been a principle of Christian charity for centuries.

What I have no time for - no time at all - is the horrible "me-me-me-and F-you", Ayn Rand, individualist attitude, widespread in some sections of opinion in the US and which the radical Right seems to be trying to import into Britain. Apart from its intrinsic loathesomeness, it's a recipe for wrecking social cohesion.

 

[RestlessSoul]

As then do the Marxists.

Karl Marx’s reputation, as a historian, economist and philosopher, is imo unjustly tarnished by those authoritarian regimes of the 20th Century who called themselves Marxist.