Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That doesn't change the doctor's duty to help the patient. The patient could be kicking and screaming in pain, but in a life and death situation, the doctor helps regardless-that-is charity.
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What about those who never heard about Jesus?
- Thread starter John1.12
- Start date
That doesn't change the doctor's duty to help the patient. The patient could be kicking and screaming in pain, but in a life and death situation, the doctor helps regardless-that-is charity.
Meh 
As far as I’m concerned God said it all in His Krishna form first. But He was a lot more lenient in accepting Him or not than the way Jesus is recorded to have said it. Personally I think he’s been misquoted, misinterpreted, misunderstood, mistranslated, taken out of context, and his words twisted for 2,000 years.
In whatever way people surrender unto me, I reciprocate with them accordingly. Everyone follows my path, knowingly or unknowingly... Bhagavad Gita 4.11
Whatever celestial form a devotee seeks to worship with faith, I steady the faith of such a devotee in that form. BG 7.21
As far as I’m concerned God said it all in His Krishna form first. But He was a lot more lenient in accepting Him or not than the way Jesus is recorded to have said it. Personally I think he’s been misquoted, misinterpreted, misunderstood, mistranslated, taken out of context, and his words twisted for 2,000 years.In whatever way people surrender unto me, I reciprocate with them accordingly. Everyone follows my path, knowingly or unknowingly... Bhagavad Gita 4.11
Whatever celestial form a devotee seeks to worship with faith, I steady the faith of such a devotee in that form. BG 7.21
Ashoka
श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
Ha, kind of off topic, but when I quoted this, Grammarly used the bullseye emoji. It made me chuckle.
Anyway, I'm not off target. I grew up Christian, and was Protestant growing up, Catholic for more than ten years. I'm very well acquainted with the God of the Bible. And I know what was taught to me (just want to note I don''t include progressive Christians in this, many of them don't believe in hell, which I find to be very interesting).
Your God demands my absolute loyalty. He wants me to obey him or else. Is that love? Is that kind? Is throwing people into hell for having a different faith the work of a kind father? Is destroying literal nations of people, such as in the Old Testament, something a kind God would do?
No , I can't agree with that. You had an unusual understanding of the bible, perhaps? Catholic you say ?
I think it’s two different Gods, possibly three, in the Bible. Maybe four if we consider the Muslim view.
Thats a specific reference to Israel, with a context. Thats not the Gospel ( good news )
Ashoka
श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
What have I said that is incorrect? So far, you've only said that I am "off track" and that you cannot agree with it. But you haven't expounded on that. I quoted scripture as well. Where was I wrong?
Ashoka
श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
It's a parable and a reference to Jesus being crowned king, and killing those who do not accept his reign, having everything taken away from them.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Then there's the problem of all the people that heard of different versions of Jesus. And I'd imagine, for you, whatever version of Christianity you are, most of those "other" Jesus' are wrong. Like the JW one, the 7th Day Adventist one, the Catholic one, etcThis is a popular Question Christians are ask .
Heres how I believe the bible addresses this .
1) The Holy Spirit .
In John 16 :
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9Of sin, because they believe not on me;
So we have here that the ministry of the Holy Spirit convicts the world of the sin of not Believing on Jesus . ( Of course this can be ignored , suppressed and resisted)
2) Jesus Draws all men ( everyone )
John 12
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33This he said, signifying what death he should die.
And Jesus is also the ' light '
John 1
1¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6¶There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light,which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10¶He was in the world, and the world was made by him , and the world knew him not.
3) Conscience
Romans 2:15
“Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another”
4) Creation testifies of the creator .
16¶For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18¶For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
5)Seeking God .
Acts 10
1¶There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4¶And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
So to recap .
Jesus is drawing all men( everyone ) to him . But everyone can resist ,suppress and reject this .
The Holy Spirit is Convicting people of the sin of not believing on Jesus .
Our Conscience reminds us . But we can suppress, sear , resist this also.
Creation testifies of the creator . A person may see design , nature , ect and realise there is a designer and a creator and seek after the creator .
A person can be seeking God , and then God gives more light to that person. Means can be sent to that person, maybe a preacher , a missionary is sent with the Gospel about Jesus, maybe a vision ,a dream ect .
With all of the above there really is no excuse . You can reject , resist suppress the truth , but God has done and given all so that we can freely believe . No matter where we are .
But this is the problem with analogies. But ok , the person in question is not going to the hospital, he doesn't even ring the doctor for help. Your point is refuted ,because I'm saying that the moment the person so much as believes he is saved .
I'm referring to the Gospel, when I say ' what about those who have never heard about Jesus '
I need no excuse to reject believe something loopy
& unevidenced. One might say that there's no
excuse for not being atheist / agnostic. But I'm
very progressive, so I'd never say such a thing.
Ashoka
श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
That's part of the gospel. Accept Jesus, and when he comes back as king, you will be spared, while the others who do not accept me will not be spared.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Do you think that 69% of the world's population is damned to hell, then? What kind of "merciful" God would that be?
Or do you mean, by "no excuse" that the 69% are just a bit sinful and their sin can be forgiven?
Ashoka
श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
I flip flop with Jesus a lot to be honest, especially with the parable I quoted above.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Actually no. Cause the bible says all has sinned. So, the person is already in pain. The doctor chooses whether to treat or not. An actual doctor would despite the rejection. God of the bible does not have that ethical guideline or hippocratic oath.
If the bible didn't say we all were sinners, you'd have a point. But he's already said we are in pain. It's up to us to call the doctor--that's like calling 911 saying we can't help you cause you didn't want us to come to your house.
What emergency line would say that?
Ok, what's your understanding of these verses, there more or less referring to the same thing. And the point i.m making
Rom 5
6¶For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
(Gen. 3:1–19 )
12¶Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
1 cor 15 .1-4
1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
2 cor 5 .19
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Yes ,its before the cross ,in reference to Jesus presenting himself as king to ISRAEL . But they reject him . Im referring to the Gospel of grace .
Ashoka
श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
This is Paul talking about salvation through Jesus. I memorized a lot of these verses growing up. I was taught that I was a depraved sinner, that Jesus died for me, and that if I don't accept his "gift" I would "perish."
Now, a real gift would be universal reconciliation, and the destruction of hell. A real gift would be forgiveness with no strings attached and no emotional manipulation.