We're entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character

[Spiderman]

The title of this thread is Step six in AA. If God removed all my defects of character, that would be great, but I'm not so sure much would be left lol.

If God removed all of your defects of character, what would be left? I don't think we would be human anymore.

 

[SalixIncendium]

"God" has been systematically removing character defects from me since It's been experienced.

Salix,
Still human

 

[allfoak]

If God removed all of your defects of character, what would be left?

A character without defect?

 

[Axe Elf]

True, we wouldn't be human any more, because human nature is selfishness, and all defects of character (i.e., sin) is based in selfishness. With our selfish human nature removed, we would be left to take on God's nature of love, and become new creatures in Christ (who bridged the gap for us).

Humanity is overrated.

 

[Duke_Leto]

@PopeADope , are you familiar with the concept of theosis? The doctrine is, I believe, nominally accepted by Western churches (at least by Catholics), but I've never heard much talk about it from my experiences with them. As I understand it, though, the idea is to pursue likeness with God, in the process actually achieving perfect union with God; that is, becoming God. Unlike the way Western churches see Jesus' death as a sacrifice for sin, as if God needed to be satisfied by blood in order to forgive anyone (as Paul teaches), this view interprets the 'point' of Jesus' incarnation being to become human in order that humans may become God.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

human nature is selfishness, and all defects of character (i.e., sin) is based in selfishness.

This is one of many destructive teachings of Christianity. Are you unaware that there are noble human beings?

 

[Axe Elf]

This is one of many destructive teachings of Christianity. Are you unaware that there are noble human beings?

I am not only unaware of it, I am completely convinced of the contrary.

 

[Willamena]

Defects are character.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

human nature is selfishness, and all defects of character (i.e., sin) is based in selfishness.

This is one of many destructive teachings of Christianity. Are you unaware that there are noble human beings?

I am not only unaware of it, I am completely convinced of the contrary.

Sorry to read that.

But you make my point. Christianity teaches that mankind is a failed, spiritually sick, sin-infested species with whom God is displeased, a species unfit to be in the presence of God as he was born, and worthy of being rejected and destroyed but for the cleansing blood of Christ. Man, we are told, is an unworthy worm saved only because God is gracious enough to allow us to worship Him. It's not surprising that many people raised in that tradition see mankind in similar terms.

My worldview is secular humanism, where we hold just about the opposite view of man. Man is capable of amazing things. While man can make his world worse, he also has the capacity to make it better, and has been doing so for centuries. Today, we have electric motors to do much of our work, which is often done indoors, in buildings with electric light, air conditioners, and elevators - buildings that we drive to. We don't see polio or small pox much any more, and surgeries and medications, though occasionally taking lives, have been a net benefit to those able to access modern health care. Childbirth deaths and stillbirths used to be more common. I'm very proud of these accomplishments of humanity.

Yes, there are terrible human beings out there, but there are also noble ones. Perhaps you've not recognized such people when you've encountered them. The people in my social sphere are mostly kind, well educated, successful, retirees living religion-free and trying to make a difference in the lives of others, and to make our community a better place to live. I have encountered other types, of course, but we weed them out of our lives. There are plenty of fine people out there living noble lives of beneficence and service.

I prefer that worldview. It's much more pleasant, and so far, it has served me well.

 

[Axe Elf]

Christianity teaches that mankind is a failed, spiritually sick, sin-infested species with whom God is displeased, a species unfit to be in the presence of God as he was born, and worthy of being rejected and destroyed but for the cleansing blood of Christ. Man, we are told, is an unworthy worm saved only because God is gracious enough to allow us to worship Him.

So it seems like you're kind of sore at Christianity for telling it like it is?

I mean, not like YOU put it, per se, but like it is. Not that mankind has failed (or even possibly could), but that humans were necessarily created with a nature of selfishness that allows them to survive and thrive in this world--but which is totally unsuitable for the presence of God, whose nature is love. Selfishness being the opposite of love, we are separated from God (sin) by our very nature, so God provided a mechanism by which we can overcome our human nature--crucify it with Christ, so to speak--and take on the nature of God to spend eternity in compatibility with His presence.

Since you used the worm analogy, yes, we're like caterpillars, suited to the Earth but not to the heavens, until we are transformed into butterflies that are suited to the air, rather than the Earth. It doesn't mean that we are failures, any more than caterpillars are failed butterflies--even though some caterpillars never make it to the transformation (because they were created for a different role--birdfood, for instance).

My worldview is secular humanism, where we hold just about the opposite view of man.

So does Satanism, which of course has nothing to do with worshiping the Christian devil; it's about the celebration of the self as the ultimate standard of judgment--the celebration of the selfish human nature.

While man can make his world worse, he also has the capacity to make it better, and has been doing so for centuries. Today, we have electric motors to do much of our work, which is often done indoors, in buildings with electric light, air conditioners, and elevators - buildings that we drive to. We don't see polio or small pox much any more, and surgeries and medications, though occasionally taking lives, have been a net benefit to those able to access modern health care. Childbirth deaths and stillbirths used to be more common. I'm very proud of these accomplishments of humanity.

I see them only nominally as accomplishments of humanity, in a similar sense that the Grand Canyon is an accomplishment of the Colorado River. I don't believe we have free will, so everything that occurs is a part of the creation of spacetime. God made some men to accomplish noble things--but their nature is still selfish (and many "good" men do unspeakable things when they're not in the spotlight)--and God created some to just be birdfood. I don't believe that man has the capability to add to or subtract from God's creation--being merely a part of that creation himself.

I prefer that worldview. It's much more pleasant, and so far, it has served me well.

To each his own. I find more pleasure being a butterfly in the making.

 

[LilyPhoenix]

i go to aa myself , i found with this one hard as i have many and i try to trust God but i find it so hard to let go off my fear
but i know Jesus will always be here with me and he will put good people in my life like my friends in AA and my friends at church i see god in others
but i just need to try and trust