Wealth Inequality in America: Viral Video

[Falvlun]

Oh, no....I'm not dismissing what you say. I'm just not addressing it.

That's exactly my point.

Sounds like you've never built a successful business, so you buy into the Obama line, "...you didn't build that".

You missed the point by a mile.

People who built successful businesses 50 years ago were comfortably rich and justly enjoyed the fruits of their labors.

The problem is that "the fruits of those labors" have greatly increased since then, but the action hasn't changed. You are still just running a business. The difference is that before "running a business" meant you got $100. Now it means you get $500... for doing the exact same thing.

And I believe and stand by the fact that you are horribly, utterly, pathetically wrong in your assessment about that Obama quote, as we have already went over ad nauseum, so that's all I will say about that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I know how much flack I'm going to take for this statement, so save your ammunition. Where in the world did you get the idea that wealth is ever distributed? Wealth is earned, accumulated, inherited, stolen--never distributed. Distribution of wealth means you are going to take from one to give it to another. Be honest in your aim. You want what doesn't belong to you.

It is that those who own the company/business/corporation/whatever take in the money, and redistribute it to their employees.
And how is requesting assistance in food, energy, and help paying for college wanting what doesn't belong to me when I am going to college, work what hours I can, and am actively trying to find an employer that will actually give me enough hours to live on. I would like to be off all assistance, but that is entirely up to who will hire me and how many hours they will give me.

Secondly, if you hit the Powerball how much of your money are you willing to give to the "poor". Would you sit down and figure to the penny how much it takes for you to live and "distribute" the rest of you dough? You may not like the wealthy, that's ok, but lets quit blowing smoke up everyone's skirt--you're mostly envious.

Actually I would pay off my families debt, donate large chunks to wildlife and environmental conservation efforts, and I would donate to pro-GLBT causes.
And as for envious, if you want to generalize you can but the facts are many people are not motivated to obtain anymore money than what they need. Many people, such as myself, even choose a college major knowing that career is far from one of the highest paying options available.

Thirdly, how many people do you know that actually work for minimum wage. Minimum wage is mostly for entry level and unskilled workers. If you can't find a job that pays better, then maybe the problem is you.

I know alot of adults and college grads alike who make minimum wage or not much above. And of course not even those who are very qualified can pick-and-choose. A college professor of mine was forced to take nearly a $50,000 dollar cut in his wages at his day-time employer because his department was dissolved, and the companies final offer on extending employment to him was what it was, and as he put it, when you have applied for 60 positions that you are qualified for and hear back from none of them you aren't in a position to turn down such an offer. Of course that's a worlds difference from minimum wage, but it's the same principle that you really just do not have a choice in such matters. Even for someone at a computer firm for 35 years, who is a math major, and well qualified.
It would probably truly frighten you to know just how little control anyone of us actually has over such things in our lives.

it seems as though the whiny victim mentality has penetrated and blanketed every facet of society though, and is great at blinding basic reason and sense.

No, it's that a handful of individuals have more money than entire nations combined and yet the middle class is vanishing and poverty is increasing, all while corporations and their executives are making even more and more money. That is what doesn't add up, when the most vital class to any society is making less and less money, and the number of people in that class reducing, while those who already have more money than what they can reasonable use are pulling in even more of it. Such is one of the reasons we have a colossal debt problem, because the uppers have hoarded so much money and have been so greedy in pulling in even more that they have let the middle class workers slip, which means less revenue for the government.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Get rid of collective bargining and minimum wage...reduce regulation and hinder or even prevent certain government agency oversight and we have something similar to China....IMO

 

[Revoltingest]

That's exactly my point.

But it wasn't what you said.
To "dismiss" something is not the same as not addressing something you didn't specifically bring up.

You missed the point by a mile.

Actually, I got it his message clearly.
Even Obama's apologists got it, ie, the wealthy aren't deserving of the fruit of their work/investment.
His apologists just can't admit it without losing face.

People who built successful businesses 50 years ago were comfortably rich and justly enjoyed the fruits of their labors.
The problem is that "the fruits of those labors" have greatly increased since then, but the action hasn't changed. You are still just running a business. The difference is that before "running a business" meant you got $100. Now it means you get $500... for doing the exact same thing.
And I believe and stand by the fact that you are horribly, utterly, pathetically wrong in your assessment about that Obama quote, as we have already went over ad nauseum, so that's all I will say about that.

You got that from Obama's message? That's a novel view which I hadn't heard until now.
But I've explained what Obama was up to many times.
If it hasn't sunk in yet, I'm sure that it won't now.
We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[dust1n]

I say.. we just the seize the assets of the rich and deport them. I'm perfectly fine with that at this point.

 

[Revoltingest]

It isn't the bottom 90% wanting the top 10% to transfer wealth to them in the name of fairness, but the top 1% of the top 1% - that's the top 0.1% - that owns 40% of the wealth of the country. To have this kind of wealth transfer has absolutely nothing to do with hard work, ingenuity, or integrity in business, but in playing the system in their favor from international bankers, whole GDPs of countries, and tax/investment/derivatives loopholes.

I disagree that the top 1% are all exempt from greater ingenuity, hard work, or risk.
Certainly some are coasting, but many really do deserve more than the ordinary working
schlub who just shows up for a paycheck, & never takes the plunge into entrepreneurship.

Even the top 10% isn't doing as well as they could due to the transfer of wealth toward the top 0.1%. I have great difficulty believing that the top 0.1% are the models of integrity that deserve all they have.

On what basis do you challenge their integrity? Do you believe the wealthy
have lower morals than the rest? in my experience, I haven't seen that. But even accepting that
some are less than moral, is tax policy driven to punish an entire group because of the actions of
a few?

 

[Revoltingest]

I say.. we just the seize the assets of the rich and deport them. I'm perfectly fine with that at this point.

That sums up the attitude of many. The problem is that it creates incentives against entrepreneurship.
Who would risk money & work to build something which would just be taxed away & given to those who didn't earn it?
Those more productive citizens would likely slack off or move to a more receptive country. How long would the USA
last if it lives off the principal? Get rid of types like Dean Kamen, Bill Gates, Craig Venter, etc. & watch us spiral down
into a disaster like Greece.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I disagree that the top 1% are all exempt from greater ingenuity, hard work, or risk.
Certainly some are coasting, but many really do deserve more than the ordinary working
schlub who just shows up for a paycheck, & never takes the plunge into entrepreneurship.

Deserve more? Sure. Deserve the vast majority of the wealth? Nope. I may do a lion's share of work in my business, but I don't deserve 90% of the earnings. I wouldn't see my business grow without the hard work of those who work for me. I've seen and worked with colleagues before who rarely paid their workers a red cent, and kept nearly all of it because they wanted to. They have the freedom to, sure, but it's a rotten way to think, and in effect their businesses have failed from bad reputations and never keeping employees around long at all.

On what basis do you challenge their integrity? Do you believe the wealthy
have lower morals than the rest? in my experience, I haven't seen that.

Before you think I don't like rich people, let's clear that up right away. I see no difference in the basic level of humanity of rich or poor. I see people as people. But I'm talking about the top 0.1% of wealth-holders in society, where we've seen their wealth skyrocket in the last couple of decades. I agree that there is no reason to steal from the rich to give to the poor, but I also agree that there is no reason to steal from the poor, the middle class, the upper class, and the wealthy to give to the uber-wealthy.

I don't see the vast majority being given to the uber-wealthy as evidence of their earning it. Rather, the system itself is corrupt, and that is what I challenge.

 

[Revoltingest]

Deserve more? Sure. Deserve the vast majority of the wealth? Nope. I may do a lion's share of work in my business, but I don't deserve 90% of the earnings. I wouldn't see my business grow without the hard work of those who work for me. I've seen and worked with colleagues before who rarely paid their workers a red cent, and kept nearly all of it because they wanted to. They have the freedom to, sure, but it's a rotten way to think, and in effect their businesses have failed from bad reputations and never keeping employees around long at all.

After you've paid all your employees a good wage & your vendors what is due them, what do you do with your net profit?
Who is entitled to 90% of it?
And these people who are more entitled to your profit than you are....will they step up & make you whole if your business
loses money or goes belly up. Will they be there for you? I don't think so.

Before you think I don't like rich people, let's clear that up right away. I see no difference in the basic level of humanity of rich or poor. I see people as people. But I'm talking about the top 0.1% of wealth-holders in society, where we've seen their wealth skyrocket in the last couple of decades. I agree that there is no reason to steal from the rich to give to the poor, but I also agree that there is no reason to steal from the poor, the middle class, the upper class, and the wealthy to give to the uber-wealthy.
I don't see the vast majority being given to the uber-wealthy as evidence of their earning it. Rather, the system itself is corrupt, and that is what I challenge.

It makes sense to challenge corruption where it's found. But that is a different matter from dissing a group because of how much money they have.

 

[Sunstone]

I know how much flack I'm going to take for this statement, so save your ammunition. Where in the world did you get the idea that wealth is ever distributed? Wealth is earned, accumulated, inherited, stolen--never distributed. Distribution of wealth means you are going to take from one to give it to another. Be honest in your aim. You want what doesn't belong to you.

For the life of me, I can't figure out what you're trying to say here. "Distributed" is a simple word whose meaning should be apparent to anyone with a dictionary. I really don't know what the problem is.

As for the distribution of wealth, for the past 30 or so years, it has been systematically distributed up the economic ladder from the poor and middle class to the very wealthy. But you don't seem to have a problem with its distribution to the very wealthy. Why is that?

 

[dust1n]

That sums up the attitude of many.

I wish.

The problem is that it creates incentives against entrepreneurship.

Yea, temporarily, but it serves as a fresh reminder to the next batch of entrepreneurs that corruption will not be tolerated.

Who would risk money & work to build something which would just be taxed away & given to those who didn't earn it?

People who just got a lot of free money that results as the redistribution of wealth.

Those more productive citizens would likely slack off or move to a more receptive country.

I'm not sure wealth or income is directly correlated to production.

How long would the USA
last if it lives off the principal? Get rid of types like Dean Kamen, Bill Gates, Craig Venter, etc. & watch us spiral down
into a disaster like Greece.

Bill Gates can stay. But nah, the new power vacuum will be a host of opportunities to all the people who stay and can see new ways to prosper.

Let's face it. Sometimes the forest gets old and moldy and the older, giant trees are blocking everyone's sunlight, so nothing can grow on the floor and the soil degrades. Why not cut the trees down? )snip:

 

[Sunstone]

I say.. we just the seize the assets of the rich and deport them. I'm perfectly fine with that at this point.

It's coming to that.

 

[Sunstone]

The political, economic, and social contributions of the hugely wealthy to society are grossly over estimated by their groupies.

 

[dust1n]

It's coming to that.

You're right. It really doesn't matter how I feel about it... at a certain point, when public services stop working, and no one can afford gasoline, and food prices are ridiculously high, there will naturally be a backlash.

 

[Sunstone]

You're right. It really doesn't matter how I feel about it... at a certain point, when public services stop working, and no one can afford gasoline, and food prices are ridiculously high, there will naturally be a backlash.

Exactly. How one feels about it is irrelevant.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yea, temporarily, but it serves as a fresh reminder to the next batch of entrepreneurs that corruption will not be tolerated.

Wow...you really believe that successful entrepreneurs are corrupt?
If success means corruption, then success will itself be punished under your proposal.
That doesn't bode well for America competing on the world economic stage.

People who just got a lot of free money that results as the redistribution of wealth.

I don't see that money received without effort is used efficiently. Moreover, if the fruits of success are to be just taken by
government, I'd be crazy to use my money for investment in anything other than snowmobiles, speedboats & Chinese carry-out.

I'm not sure wealth or income is directly correlated to production.

The people I know who have money worked very productively to get it.

Bill Gates can stay. But nah, the new power vacuum will be a host of opportunities to all the people who stay and can see new ways to prosper.

Oh, dear....your or government will decide who gets to stay (losing their wealth) & who is kicked out?
Looks like a repeat of the 1970s, since I might have to escape to Canuckistan to avoid the money draft.

Let's face it. Sometimes the forest gets old and moldy and the older, giant trees are blocking everyone's sunlight, so nothing can grow on the floor and the soil degrades. Why not cut the trees down? )snip:

Well, if you're gonna get rid of people, how about deporting the poor?
They don't pay much tax, they consume lots'o benefits, & their yards are unattractive.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

After you've paid all your employees a good wage & your vendors what is due them, what do you do with your net profit?
Who is entitled to 90% of it?
And these people who are more entitled to your profit than you are....will they step up & make you whole if your business
loses money or goes belly up. Will they be there for you? I don't think so.

I didn't say net profit. I said 90% of ALL revenue. Which is what the nation's wealth is seeing. Are we seeing GDP turning a profit/surplus, or are we seeing mismanagement of the revenue?

If my company makes 1 million dollars in a year, I would be considered a terrible leader were I to first say that I'll take the lion's share before paying my employees, paying the vendors, paying the lease, etc. But see, Rev, that is exactly what I see the top 0.1% doing.

They're not just fleecing the poor, the middle class, the entrepreneurs. They're fleecing everybody, including the well-off.

It makes sense to challenge corruption where it's found. But that is a different matter from dissing a group because of how much money they have.

Again, you misrepresent my feelings. I don't dis people for how much money they have. I dis people for getting it through unethical and corrupt means.

 

[Revoltingest]

I didn't say net profit. I said 90% of ALL revenue.
Revenue isn't a meaningful measure of income or wealth, since profit margins vary greatly between businesses.

Which is what the nation's wealth is seeing. Are we seeing GDP turning a profit/surplus, or are we seeing mismanagement of the revenue?

If my company makes 1 million dollars in a year, I would be considered a terrible leader were I to first say that I'll take the lion's share before paying my employees, paying the vendors, paying the lease, etc. But see, Rev, that is exactly what I see the top 0.1% doing.

Are you claiming that the 1% don't pay their employees or vendors?
That would certainly result in lawsuits & prosecution.
Is there evidence of this?

They're not just fleecing the poor, the middle class, the entrepreneurs. They're fleecing everybody, including the well-off.

In what way? Evidence?
(Your definition of "fleece" might differ from mine.)

Again, you misrepresent my feelings.

I try accurately understand & represent.
I'm going by what you post & asking clarifying questions.
(When you say "earnings", I interpreted that to be net income rather than gross revenue.)

I don't dis people for how much money they have. I dis people for getting it through unethical and corrupt means.

But you attributed this to the 1%, yes?
Do you allow that some are honest?
What percentage are dishonest?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The political, economic, and social contributions of the hugely wealthy to society are grossly over estimated by their groupies.

This......:yes:

Tickles me to see the poor defend the rich.....

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Are you claiming that the 1% don't pay their employees or vendors?
That would certainly result in lawsuits & prosecution.
Is there evidence of this?

In what way? Evidence?
(Your definition of "fleece" might differ from mine.)

I try accurately understand & represent.
I'm going by what you post & asking clarifying questions.

But you attributed this to the 1%, yes?
Do you allow that some are honest?
What percentage are dishonest?

Top 0.1%. Not just the top 1%, Rev. Did you watch the video? I felt it accurately described the economic situation where we are at now.

I do like a good conversation, btw. But I'm off to the studio for the night. I'll revisit this tomorrow.