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Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The having of the name of a person's own father on the forehead is symbolic of a person's realization of where he came from. So why not prove the 144,000 have Jesus' name and Jehovah's Name on their foreheads? You have taken it upon yourself to carry The Truth to all the people so do it. Please prove your vision is the right one. It means life or death so it has to be important. Hello?

I have proof it is the person's name.....Revelation 3:5
The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

And their father's name on their forehead is proved in Chronicles. Try reading Chronicles outloud and then come back and tell us you have no proof it isn't Jehovah's Name on their forehead Hello? .
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Honesty sounds like this: "We do not know whose names are on their foreheads". I expect honesty from an organization which calls itself The Truth. Do any JWs on forum ever call it that? Have you ever called it that on the forum? Why not?
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
the guarantee we have is that if we endure to the end, we will gain life.

Matt 10:22 And you will be hated by all people on account of my name,+ but the one who has endured*to the end will be saved.

Have you endured to the end yet?
Paul talks about salvation in the past, present and future tenses.

Paul reminded Titus that as a result of his kindness and mercy, God SAVED us, through the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:4-5)

To the church at Corinth, Paul wrote: “Now I make known unto you, brothers, the gospel which I preached unto you … by which also you ARE SAVED” (1 Corinthians 15:1-2).

Paul told Timothy, “The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and WILL SAVE me unto his heavenly kingdom”


I can say with all assurance that I was saved when I put on Christ in baptism. I was born of water and the Spirit, and the Lord added me to His kingdom/church that day.

I am presently saved, and when Jesus comes again, I will be saved provided that I remain faithful to the end.

Yes, people can lose their salvation.

Now how about you? Do you have assurance of your salvation? Are you saved?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Now how about you? Do you have assurance of your salvation? Are you saved?
What I think I'd like them to realize is that they put their lives in the hands of men who are not saved yet. They also must "endure to the end to be saved". SO? Can you hear me now? Hello?????
The men who have not endured to the end, as our LORD did do, teach assurance of salvation. That is so dumb I don't know what to say.
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
Maybe you did not progress far enough in the bible study aid to get to the topic about Jesus death and resurrection

All about Jesus life is found in chapter 3 in our 'What does the bible really teach' book

And all about the purpose and meaning of Jesus death and resurrection is found in chapter 4 of the What Does the Bible Really Teach book

This is the book we use to help people learn about these things so my guess is that you didnt' actually spend time studying with us.

Listen to yourself, and what you are saying!

How sad that you don't believe that the word of God is powerful enough to teach a person what they must do to be saved.

If you are truly concerned with helping a person to be saved, then the only thing you will need is the Scriptures.

The Bible is our aid, which will lead others to Christ.

You elevate the Watchtower above God's word. :(
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
I think you need to re-think that.

Revelation 14 :1 And I saw, and, look! the Lamb+ standing upon the Mount Zion,+ and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand+ having his name and the name of his Father+ written on their foreheads.

What is the name of the Father? Its written in the bible over 7,000 times so you should know it.
Once again, you run to Revelation, which is a letter filled with symbolism, and completely ignore plainly written verses Acts 1:8 and 11:26.

Not one time in the NT are christians called Jehovah's Witnesses, nor are they asked to be witnesses for Jehovah. You go beyond what is written just like the Pharisees did. You nullify the word of God by your traditions.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
Acts 11:26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Jesus not making himself equal to God should be a lesson for not making one's self equal to Jesus.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Someone who is not on ignore should ask.

It seems that you make the governing body equal to Jesus in many ways. Are you aware that is what it looks like by people on the outside?

And if you knew they were making themselves Christ's equal would you protest?
 

Shak34

Active Member
Listen to yourself, and what you are saying!

How sad that you don't believe that the word of God is powerful enough to teach a person what they must do to be saved.

If you are truly concerned with helping a person to be saved, then the only thing you will need is the Scriptures.

The Bible is our aid, which will lead others to Christ.

You elevate the Watchtower above God's word. :(

How is a JW using their study guides any different than a christian of another denomination going to a christian book store or even the christian section in Barnes and noble and buying a study guide or inspirational books. Does that mean the other Christian is putting their study guide or other books above god's word?
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I do not know of any other study guide which makes the claim theirs do; which is to read them for your everlasting life. Do you believe them Shak34? If yes, then why aren't you a JW? If not then why are you not incensed?
 

Shak34

Active Member
I do not know of any other study guide which makes the claim theirs do; which is to read them for your everlasting life. Do you believe them Shak34? If yes, then why aren't you a JW? If not then why are you not incensed?

I just think it is silly to ridicule one group for having their own literature, when other groups also have their own literature. And some of it can be consider extremely strange or unbiblical on both sides.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I just think it is silly to ridicule one group for having their own literature, when other groups also have their own literature. And some of it can be consider extremely strange or unbiblical on both sides.
I agree. Sometimes we resort to ridicule but they are not answering her so she can get emotional with good reason I think.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Their literature isn't for reading at a person's leisure. It is a command even for the very young to read it and read it often. I didn't hear her ridicule them. I hear she is upset that they do it. I am amazed at her insight as she wasn't a JW and I can only conclude that God's Spirit is moving her. Does God get angry? Jehovah's Witnesses say God has a limit on patience and will destroy everyone who does not exalt Watchtower. Is that OK with you?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Because it is unscriptural, that's why. If God wanted us to wear His name, which is YHWH, not Jehovah, He would have told us this in the New Testament. We are not Israelites. We don't live under the law of Moses. We are CHRISTIANS. We live under the law of Christ.

Jesus was an Israelite who was a witness to his Father Jehovah. Jesus did not worship himself...he worshiped God and we do the same. Actually the NT is full of verses telling us to do just that, some examples:

In this verse, the great crowd owe their salvation firstly to God, then to Jesus
Rev 7:10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne,+ and to the Lamb.”
Then we see that these ones are said to be rendering sacred service, not to the Lamb (Jesus) but to God:
Vs15 That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne+ will spread his tent over them


Then we have Jesus own words about worshiping the Father in Matt 6:10
10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah* your God you must worship,+ and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
Where was he quoting from when he said 'it is written'? He was quoting from the mosiac law where it reads:

Deuteronomy 6:13 Jehovah your God you should fear,+ and him you should serve,+ and by his name you should swear.

So it is quite scriptural to worship God and not Jesus. Yes Jesus is our King, but he is not our God and he never would have wanted his followers to worship him. You are being gravely mislead.

There is nothing wrong with praising God publicly. We see numerous examples of this being done by Jesus and His apostles in the NT. There is something very wrong with wearing the name Jehovah's Witness, when it has not been authorized by God.

How better to distinguish ourselves from the rest of christianity who worship Jesus... we are Christians who worship Jehovah. We could not have called ourselves by his name if he did not approve of it.

Christians are called to be witnesses For Christ. That's why they wear His name. Acts 1:8 is another verse, which seems to go right over your head. You only pay attention to prophetic and obscure verses which you think support your doctrine, but ignore those which speak plainly such as this one.

Yes, and we certainly are witnesses for Christ... but first and foremost we are witnesses for God because he is the one who sent Jesus to earth and if it were not for God, we would have no salvation.
In fact, the scriptures tell us it is God who brings us to Jesus.... not the other way around:
John 6:44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him,+ and I will resurrect him on the last day.
We owe our salvation to the Father and I think for that, he should be recognised. But if you worship Jesus alone, then how could you ever serve the Father as Jesus said we should? You can't and you dont. Thats a real shame because it is Jehovah who is God and when Jesus relinquishes his authority and submits himself to the Father, who will you worship then?

1Cor 15:24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.+25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet.+26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.+27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.+ But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’+ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.+28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him,+ that God may be all things to everyone.+

If you were to continue woshiping Jesus at this time, you would be put to death under the mosaic law which say:
Exodus 20:3 You must not have any other gods besides me.*
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Now how about you? Do you have assurance of your salvation? Are you saved?

if i am faithful and endure to the end, yes, i have no doubt. But I also keep this warning in mind:

1 Cor 10:12 So let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall.

I know God is faithful and salvation is assured to those who remain faithful. But will I remain faithful? That is an unanswered question at this stage.


 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Listen to yourself, and what you are saying!

How sad that you don't believe that the word of God is powerful enough to teach a person what they must do to be saved.

If you are truly concerned with helping a person to be saved, then the only thing you will need is the Scriptures.

The Bible is our aid, which will lead others to Christ.

You elevate the Watchtower above God's word. :(

You said a few posts back that you couldnt provided a few scriptures to back up a point you were making. Study aids help us to locate scriptures and remind us how they apply.

Without a study aid i'd be lost too.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The questions going unanswered are how does God prove the governing body is to listen to and why do JWs make the Watchtower at least as important as God's Word?
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
You said a few posts back that you couldnt provided a few scriptures to back up a point you were making. Study aids help us to locate scriptures and remind us how they apply.

Without a study aid i'd be lost too.
When I am leading a soul to Christ, I use nothing but a Bible. I have studied it enough to be able to help anyone locate the Scripures they need to learn what they must do to be saved.

I am not dependent on study aids, other than a concordance occasionally, or a dictionary or interlinear.

You elevate your so called study aid above the Bible.

There is a far cry between using a concordance to locate a verse, or a dictionary or interlinear to define a word than using the Watchtower Indoctrination Introduction book, which you use.
 
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katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
You said a few posts back that you couldnt provided a few scriptures to back up a point you were making. Study aids help us to locate scriptures and remind us how they apply.

Without a study aid i'd be lost too.
I absolutely never said I couldn't provide Scriptures. You're being disingenuous. There is a difference between couldn't and wouldn't.

Stop twisting my words. That is a ploy used by people when they have nothing left to argue with.
 
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