Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[e.r.m.]

Actually its the opposite, they do all that to their members.

There are times when certain members cross the line in any group. It's not policy.

 

[savagewind]

There are times when certain members cross the line in any group. It's not policy.

Actually it is policy.

 

[psychoslice]

There are times when certain members cross the line in any group. It's not policy.

I have heard many testimonies from x-JW's, you can see a lot of these on you-tube, even my own church that I once belong to the Seventh Day Adventist, didn't like us mingling with non believes, even family members, we weren't allow to dance, go to the cinema, or have anything to do with non believes.

 

[james2ko]

I like the fact that you do give real thought to what you speak.

I have another (or, maybe not) idea about this from the standpoint of Jerusalem being considered a woman. Thus this returning may not need carry a literal sense as to that geographical location. That woman and her children were spread throughout the entire earth.

Of course, as with any premise, one must be patient to see that it holds true throughout scripture.

I'm not as dogmatic as the JW's about the obvious allegories of scripture. If you are referring to Rev 12, I believe the nation of Israel--the church-- is symbolically referred to throughout the chapter. In verse 1, Israel is described as a Woman clothed with the sun and moon and wearing a crown of stars. Given the symbols of Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:9 hints toward the "Woman's" identity.

 

[e.r.m.]

I have heard many testimonies from x-JW's, you can see a lot of these on you-tube, even my own church that I once belong to the Seventh Day Adventist, didn't like us mingling with non believes, even family members, we weren't allow to dance, go to the cinema, or have anything to do with non believes.

I believe you, but I bet there are many current JW members who have not had those experiences, and a good number of ex-JW members who have also not had those experiences, but have left for other reasons. Having bad elements in a church does not make it a cult. It's gotta be policy, like with Sung Yun Moon or Jim Jomes.

 

[e.r.m.]

I'm not as dogmatic as the JW's about the obvious allegories of scripture. If you are referring to Rev 12, I believe the nation of Israel--the church-- is symbolically referred to throughout the chapter. In verse 1, Israel is described as a Woman clothed with the sun and moon and wearing a crown of stars. Given the symbols of Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:9 hints toward the "Woman's" identity.

Genesis doesn't hint, it blatantly gives it away.
Genesis 37:10 When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?”
The Sun and the moon and the twelve stars are the house of Israel.

 

[e.r.m.]

Actually it is policy.

The JWs I've known were not starved into submission.

 

[savagewind]

The JWs I've known were not starved into submission.

Policy means rules. They have rules that they must obey to be considered Jehovah's Witnesses. They have rules to starve their loved ones of love so that those who wish to leave will beg their way back. This is what they are being taught to do. It is not considered by them a choice. If they don't obey the rules then they will be treated coldly by most other JWs.

 

[jeager106]

View attachment 10095
Christian sect the Jehovah's Witnesses - with 64,000 active 'disciples' in Australia - are a cruel religion with no soul, according to Melbourne cultbuster Raphael Aron.

His warning comes as the federal government considers tightening the definition of a charity to prevent some cults and quasi-religions keeping their tax free status. Independent senator Nick Xenophon has renewed calls for a national cult-busting agency.

Mr Aron, a psychologist, counsellor and director of Melbourne's Cult Counselling Australia, said the Jehovah's Witnesses had a policy of "shunning" members who left or wanted to leave by cutting them off from family members who remained.

"I am still waiting for a justification for someone to be able to rip away a five or six year old child from their extended family because Mum or Dad have decided to leave the Jehovah's Witnesses," he said.

Former members say shunning can involve bullying, threats, harassment and stalking to lure the 'apostate', or lapsed member, back. The religion's scripture magazine The Watchtower describes 'apostates' as "mentally diseased" outcasts who "seek to infect others."

Mr Aron says shunning is "draconian, cruel and callous." Religion and faith were supposed to provide support, comfort and warmth but shunning could crush self-esteem and give feelings of guilt, especially in children.

Mr Aron, who has written two books on cults and has investigated them for thirty years, said the Jehovah's Witnesses were an outwardly benign group but they withheld information from potential recruits. Jehovah's Witnesses cannot celebrate Christmas, Easter or birthdays. They are not allowed to have blood transfusions, sing the natiuonal anthem or salute the national flag.

"They come to your door on a Sunday morning and you have a wonderful discussion about God but they never tell you that once entrenched in the religion you may never be able to say happy birthday to your children again."

They don't celebrate birthdays because they say there are no birthdays in the Bible, which Aron, an observant Jew, maintains is not true. "There's no Moomba in the Bible either," he says. "And no football. Does that mean we shouldn't do those things either?"

Jehovah's Witnesses believe they have God's messages to themselves, that all other religions are wrong, that the end of the world will come and only those in 'The Truth' will survive. They have predicted the end of the world five times.

Mr. Raphael Aron is a fraud. Anyone can and should do a bit of research on this guy.
Here is a bit, just the opening paragraph from just one web site:

"Raphael Aron beguiles by deceptively representing himself as a cult expert when he ONLY has at best an unrelated degree in Commerce. In fact, he holds no formal medical or psychological training or degree whatsoever."

Mr. Fish, for reasons unknown to me you seem to have an intense dislike for the
J.W.'s.
Regards.

 

[jeager106]

Like I've always said, I admire the Jehovahs Witness passion for Living a Godly life, for feeding in His word it's just that their word is a distortion and thereby their beliefs are as well. If we find someone in error, we are to correct In a spirit of Love. Now mind you, I can be not so gentle at times (which I do need to work on) and if anyone took offense I do sincerely apologize again. But to see errors in someone's view on Christ and have them not only believe such errors but teach others the same- no apostle, no follower of Jesus would stand by to let that happen. They wouldn't walk on the other side of the road like a Pharisee. That would be not caring about someone. That's not Love.
Now as for Judas, he actually killed himself in regret over his decision. These people were and are the opposite, who felt a Joy and found Jesus by doing so.
The people who accused Jesus lied about another person, Jesus, in there hatred. These people are telling of their own experiences, that they sadly had to go through in hopes of warning other people, so they can know Christ better (that is Love).

You admire J.W.'s passion............................................???????????????????
Admire???????????? Yet you have been bashing the snot out of them.
J.W. are not, by any means, a denomination that disfellowships members for gross misconduct.
Many denominations do this. Just google some more and learn.
Most notable are the Amish and various sects of Amish but there are many.
I know a J.W. who was disfellowshipped. Why? His continual behavior of cheating on
his wife.
He was happily and joyfully reinstated after demonstrating his willingness to repent and
stop his most un-Christian behavior.
I came here to learn about the Christian and other religions and perhaps to improve
my debating skills.
I learned nothing kind, loving, or beneficial from your attacking tirades.

LINK: There are several.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Rapha...e-Tax-Evader-Clandestine-Cunning-Scamm-636353

 

[jeager106]

The JWs I've known were not starved into submission.

No of course not. This isn't even close to any kind of truth.

 

[JayJayDee]

Policy means rules. They have rules that they must obey to be considered Jehovah's Witnesses. They have rules to starve their loved ones of love so that those who wish to leave will beg their way back. This is what they are being taught to do. It is not considered by them a choice. If they don't obey the rules then they will be treated coldly by most other JWs.

Those who identify as Jehovah's Witnesses but who wish to break the laws of God unrepentantly, or who wish to slander the ones we are told to obey (Heb 13:7, 17) will not be treated as if they still qualify as spiritual family members.
Those who wish to leave are free to go, but those who want to stay and whine about the elders or who want to engage in unchristian conduct, will be disciplined.....or disfellowshipped. We have rules because God has rules. We don't stop talking to people just because they want to leave. We hope they will come back. We stop talking to trouble makers who wish to take away our peace. One of God's pet peeves is those who stir up contentions amongst the brotherhood.

Proverbs 6:16-19...."There are six things which the Lord hates,Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers."

We keep apostates and wilful sinners out of our congregations because they are poisonous to us. They are not content to just leave and let go...they want to spread their poison because it justifies their defection. They are basically left with nowhere to go, so instead of repenting they just want to get even. Hateful vendettas follow. Then you have the self-righteous crusaders who pick up on the negative feedback and see it as their job to save everyone from the evil clutches of JW's. Perhaps they should spend as much time making trouble for ISIS? I don't think we've beheaded anyone lately.

When we are baptised as Christ's disciples, we make a vow to God that we will become his Witnesses as disciples of his son. We recognise the Christian congregation as God's organisation on earth. God has always had an organised people who were given his laws and who were considered his property. Failure to obey the laws of God incurred a penalty. If repentance was demonstrated, then mercy was shown.
We keep to that standard because it is what was exercised in Israel and in the first century Christian congregations.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13...."When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people. It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.” (NLT)

Authority to judge inside the congregations was given to those in possession of that authority...whilst God will judge those outside. We are instructed to remove the sinner, who has failed to mend their ways.

For those who want to teach something different, according to their own ideas, John has this to say....

2 John 1:10-11...."If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. ." (ESV)

These are the reasons for disfellowshipping. Someone who simply stops coming to meetings is not disfellowshipped.
A person who wants to be their own version of a JW and influence others in the congregation in a negative way, is not welcome. We make no apology for that.

 

[psychoslice]

I believe you, but I bet there are many current JW members who have not had those experiences, and a good number of ex-JW members who have also not had those experiences, but have left for other reasons. Having bad elements in a church does not make it a cult. It's gotta be policy, like with Sung Yun Moon or Jim Jomes.

Na, the JW's are a cult, if you believe it or not, I cannot understand why you would think other wides, the whole idea of what it is or not is just a ridiculers play of words.

 

[Pegg]

Na, the JW's are a cult, if you believe it or not, I cannot understand why you would think other wides, the whole idea of what it is or not is just a ridiculers play of words.

How do you define cult?

 

[Pegg]

Actually its the opposite, they do all that to their members.

Have you been a member?

 

[savagewind]

I think a cult is a group of people dedicated to the group's head. If that is the case then everyone who believes in God or in Jesus to lead us together can be considered a cult, but we are not together.

A cult is an organization which rewards or punishes a person respecting how well or how bad the person's obedience to their cult head is.

 

[Pegg]

1. That's correct. As long as we are in this flesh, we will all continue to occasionally jump ahead of the hs. Which, in that regard, makes your organization no different than any other in Christendom.

True... man makes mistakes. But some mistakes are motivated by greed, ambition, pride.... when church leaders burn people at the stake for disagreeing with their dogma, it is no longer an innocent mistake.

2. Then it stands to reason Jehovah had Zecariah, Isaiah, Micah and others write exactly what they were suppose to write about the literal KOG, yet your organization "imagines" something different.

A literal fulfilment did occur in ancient times. Back then the kingdom of God was represented by an earthly king... so yes, it did initially have a literal fufilment.

You never answered my question in point 4. Here it is again: Utilizing the law of non-contradiction, find me two scriptures that contradict Jesus could and would never dwell and rule on earth in the future?

"Could and would never"

What????? Can you rephrase that.... i dont think these words belong in the same sentence.

 

[e.r.m.]

Na, the JW's are a cult, if you believe it or not, I cannot understand why you would think other wides, the whole idea of what it is or not is just a ridiculers play of words.

No, you can't excuse your slander by trying to scapegoat wordplay. You just don't LIKE the group, you've made up your mind against ANY facts provided to the contrary, and you made an attempt to trivialize contradictory evidence. But the evidence is there. There are plenty of JW's who live happy lives in their churches, unencumbered by the Jehovah Witness system, whatever it may be. If you wish to turn a blind eye to that, I can't stop you. But I can let you know that it's slander.

 

[Shak34]

Those who wish to leave are free to go. We don't stop talking to people just because they want to leave. We hope they will come back. We stop talking to trouble makers who wish to take away our peace. One of God's pet peeves is those who stir up contentions amongst the brotherhood.

To a point I understand rules when people are trying pull others away from god. What I disagree with is that you say is if they want to go they are free to do so. That is true to a point. If they can fade without giving any reason for punishment then they won't be shunned. But if they want to openly leave the organization by disassociating themselves then they are treated the same as someone who is disfellowshipped.

Watchtower 4/15/88
By also avoiding persons who have deliberately disassociated themselves, Christians are protected from possible critical, unappreciative, or even apostate views

14 The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home. It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum, in line with the divine principle: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person [or guilty of another gross sin], . . . not even eating with such a man.”

Just because on decides to leave the organization does not make them a fornicator, greedy, or guilty of any gross sin.

Watchtower 9/15/ 81
16 Persons who make themselves “not of our sort” by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing.

These quotes were taken from the watchtower articles regarding disassociated and disfellowshiped members.

Sad to say JW's do stop talking to people when they want to leave. It is no wonder why so many get hurt and angry.

 

[e.r.m.]

I think a cult is a group of people dedicated to the group's head. If that is the case then everyone who believes in God or in Jesus to lead us together can be considered a cult, but we are not together.

A cult is an organization which rewards or punishes a person respecting how well or how bad the person's obedience to their cult head is.

Like Catholicism and the Pope?