Was Jesus, Adam?

[Fool]

So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.


?????

 

[allfoak]

Very possible.
I am thinking He may also have been Enoch.
Edgar Cayce said that Jesus lived 30 lifetimes before he was able to fulfill the Law and become a Christ and the firstborn son.
For the average person it takes countless lifetimes.

 

[Fool]

Very possible.
I am thinking He may also have been Enoch.
Edgar Cayce said that Jesus lived 30 lifetimes before he was able to fulfill the Law and become a Christ and the firstborn son.
For the average person it takes countless lifetimes.

joshua, hosea, elisha, hermes, melchizedek, enoch, asaph

 

[David1967]

For the average person it takes countless lifetimes.

Dang it !!!

 

[Kemosloby]

I believe it means Jesus was a new creation. Did not inherit the sin of Adam.

 

[allfoak]

joshua, hosea, elisha, hermes, melchizedek, enoch

Yup, very well possible.

 

[allfoak]

I believe it means Jesus was a new creation. Did not inherit the sin of Adam.

That is the Jesus is God argument is it not?

 

[Kemosloby]

That is the Jesus is God argument is it not?

No, not unless you think Adam was God. It would be the Jesus is man arguement. Jesus was "Son of Man" and "Son of God".

 

[wizanda]

Pondering David the 'Servant' of the Lord as well... Makes it a Hell of a lot easier trying to convince Jews, that Yeshua was the fulfillment of their prophecies then.

 

[allfoak]

Pondering David the 'Servant' of the Lord as well... Makes it a Hell of a lot easier trying to convince Jews, that Yeshua was the fulfillment of their prophecies then.

The only difficulty is that many do not accept the idea of past lives even though it has been a part of Jewish thought from the beginning.


The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, under the heading of Souls, Transmigration of:

"The doctrine of transmigration of souls, which was especially accepted by the Karaites… is generally attacked by Jewish philosophers, but is defended by Isaac Abravanel and Manasseh ben Israel.
It appears often in Cabala; it is found in organized form in the Zohar, it is further developed in the teachings of Isaac Luria (1534-1572), and in Hasidism it becomes a universal belief.
According to these teachings, all human souls have a common origin in the spiritual unity of the primordial man, sparks of which form the individual souls...
The sin of Adam brought higher and lower souls into confusion; as a result, every soul has to pass through a series of incarnations... The soul itself has no sex, which is determined by the body and may vary from incarnation to incarnation".


In the Zohar, the foundational doctrine of Jewish Mysticism, it is written that:

“All souls are subject to the trials of transmigration; and men do not know the designs of the Most High with regard to them… The souls must re-enter the absolute substance whence they have emerged. But to accomplish this end they must develop all the perfections, the germ of which is planted in them; and if they have not fulfilled this condition during one life, they must commence another, a third, and so forth, until they have acquired the condition which fits them for reunion with God”.

 

[Dawnofhope]

So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.


?????

Possibly. It would be hard to prove it either rationally or from scripture.

The story of Adam and Eve is allegorical and not literal IMHO. However it may well refer to an actual man or prophet who was the first Manifestation of God. In that way He was Jesus in the same way that John the Baptist was the spiritual incarnation of Elijah.

However reincarnation as some Buddhists and Hindus is an entirely different proposition and I see problems with it.

 

[Fool]

The only difficulty is that many do not accept the idea of past lives even though it has been a part of Jewish thought from the beginning.


The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, under the heading of Souls, Transmigration of:

"The doctrine of transmigration of souls, which was especially accepted by the Karaites… is generally attacked by Jewish philosophers, but is defended by Isaac Abravanel and Manasseh ben Israel.
It appears often in Cabala; it is found in organized form in the Zohar, it is further developed in the teachings of Isaac Luria (1534-1572), and in Hasidism it becomes a universal belief.
According to these teachings, all human souls have a common origin in the spiritual unity of the primordial man, sparks of which form the individual souls...
The sin of Adam brought higher and lower souls into confusion; as a result, every soul has to pass through a series of incarnations... The soul itself has no sex, which is determined by the body and may vary from incarnation to incarnation".


In the Zohar, the foundational doctrine of Jewish Mysticism, it is written that:

“All souls are subject to the trials of transmigration; and men do not know the designs of the Most High with regard to them… The souls must re-enter the absolute substance whence they have emerged. But to accomplish this end they must develop all the perfections, the germ of which is planted in them; and if they have not fulfilled this condition during one life, they must commence another, a third, and so forth, until they have acquired the condition which fits them for reunion with God”.

regeneration = palingenesis = metempsychosis = reincarnation

 

[allfoak]

Metempsychosis does not sound accurate.
Our soul does not enter the body.
It cannot.
It is not reasonable to think that something eternal could ever inhabit a mortal body.
It is through the mind that soul and body are connected.

 

[allfoak]

The story of Adam and Eve is allegorical and not literal IMHO.

It definitely is allegorical but like the story of Jesus, it could have been an allegory based on real people.
Kind of like a movie being based on a true story but modified to convey a particular message.
Based on real people does not mean historically accurate.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It definitely is allegorical but like the story of Jesus, it could have been an allegory based on real people.
Kind of like a movie being based on a true story but modified to convey a particular message.
Based on real people does not mean historically accurate.

I agree. The outline of genealogy present in the bible dating back to Adam supports this idea. From this line of reasoning one could argue that Adam had a similar type of spirit to Jesus and fulfilled a similar purpose. This was the original OP question. However we might start to enter "how many angels on a pinhead" territory.

 

[Fool]

Metempsychosis does not sound accurate.
Our soul does not enter the body.
It cannot.
It is not reasonable to think that something eternal could ever inhabit a mortal body.
It is through the mind that soul and body are connected.

i was following the line of progression.

palingenesis is the oldest term and yes the spirit(mind/intelligence/consciousness) enters the body as the breath of life sometime just prior to birth, or shortly there after from what I've learned. it hopefully exits from the top of the skull, in the same way it enters, upon death. palingenesis comes from two greek words: palin + genesis

metempsychosis came later and then reincarnation was coined last.


in some systems the spirit takes a form, or mode, of matter. it becomes more/less dense. as it moves through the spheres it eventually becomes light light as you know is both a particle and a wave. so light itself has two state; which seems to be a paradox.

 

[Reggie Miller]

Edgar Cayce was not a Biblical prophet. The measure of a true prophet is 100% accuracy. No "modern prophet" can claim that.

 

[Fool]

Edgar Cayce was not a Biblical prophet. The measure of a true prophet is 100% accuracy. No "modern prophet" can claim that.

wrong, prophecy takes three forms. warning to avert, aka jonah. precognitive as in a pregnancy, death, aka the maji knowing the birth of jesus, and past knowing information from the past that is later discovered to be historically true.

edgar cayce predicted the pole shift, foretold of the finding of the gnostic gospels, et al

 

[allfoak]

I agree. The outline of genealogy present in the bible dating back to Adam supports this idea. From this line of reasoning one could argue that Adam had a similar type of spirit to Jesus and fulfilled a similar purpose. This was the original OP question. However we might start to enter "how many angels on a pinhead" territory.

I don't think it would be necessary to go in that direction, i have been down that road and i really didn't like the ride.
It would be much easier to understand if we approached it from the idea of the eternal soul on a journey, the journey of the prodigal son.
Then we don't even have to talk about the spirit thing at all.
It is a journey that spans many lifetimes.
It is a bold journey indeed.
One that will one day turn the earth into heaven or matter into spirit.
We are all destined to be like our brother Jesus.
He was the first born of many to come.

 

[Fool]

I don't think it would be necessary to go in that direction, i have been down that road and i really didn't like the ride.
It would be much easier to understand if we approached it from the idea of the eternal soul on a journey, the journey of the prodigal son.
Then we don't even have to talk about the spirit thing at all.
It is a journey that spans many lifetimes.
It is a bold journey indeed.
One that will one day turn the earth into heaven or matter into spirit.
We are all destined to be like our brother Jesus.
He was the first born of many to come.

angels on a pinhead?


He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man.”