War and Peace

[sandandfoam]

this might help, its very murky cuacasian waters here,

South Ossetia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Murky waters indeed. It seems to me that this is about the balance of power in the region. That the Georgians made a high stakes play and lost. Is there a new Cold War on the way, has it already begun?
I've been wondering about these new missile bases in Eastern Europe Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible
The link is to a blog article by a Telegraph reporter about the missile bases. It's working for me, I'll post it again if it doesn't work.

 

[kai]

Murky waters indeed. It seems to me that this is about the balance of power in the region. That the Georgians made a high stakes play and lost. Is there a new Cold War on the way, has it already begun?
I've been wondering about these new missile bases in Eastern Europe Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

theres also this

Ossetia ordeal ill-served by cold war logic - The Irish Times - Tue, Aug 12, 2008


i see what you mean about the misslie shield, all i can say is you cant blame former soviet states for fearing Russia, but its a bit of a powder keg isnt it.

 

[darkendless]

This war is concerning, Russia has exceeded their initial territorial gains and moved out of the contested states. I hope they do not intend to take Georgia, that will serve no good at all. Thousands have died and thousands more will, i just hope the situation is resolved very soon before more countries commit forces.

 

[sandandfoam]

theres also this

Ossetia ordeal ill-served by cold war logic - The Irish Times - Tue, Aug 12, 2008

Very good article. He summed it up perfectly at the end

Pity the poor civilians caught in the middle of these geopolitical manoeuvres. They deserved better from an international community celebrating international friendship at the Olympics.

but its a bit of a powder keg isnt it.

It really is. It's a worry. It also concerns me deeply that an increasingly less democratic European Union is emerging at a time like this.

 

[idea]

I am reading, I think Russia started this. They imposed trade sanctions, built up forces... CIS is the EU of the former Soviet Union. Why is Russia trying to tear down CIS? That to me is an act of war.

link
The 2008 Georgian - Russia crisis began on March 6, 2008 when Russia announced that it would no longer participate in the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) economic sanctions imposed on Abkhazia in 1996.[1] The crisis has been linked to the push for Georgia to receive a NATO Membership Action Plan and the unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo.[2] Tensions in the crisis have been primarily centered around the breakaway state of Abkhazia and increased following the shootdown of a Georgian UAV drone airplane and subsequent buildup of military forces by Russia.

Responding to Kosovo's recent declaration of independence, Russian officials declared Moscow should “reshape its relations with self-proclaimed republics”.[3] Russia responded to these calls for increased ties by lifting CIS sanctions, declaring them "outdated, impeding the socio-economic development of the region, and causing unjustified hardship for the people of Abkhazia".[1] Russia also called on other CIS members to undertake similar steps, but met with protests from Tbilisi and lack of support from the other CIS countries.[4] Shalva Natelashvili, leader of the Labour Party of Georgia, warned Abkhazia would be "finally separated from Georgia" and cited the lifting of sanctions as the first sign.[5] Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt, raised similar concerns about the dropping of trade restrictions saying, "That could look like a de facto annexation and that would be a matter of great concern if it were the case."[6]

Russia Still Bombing Georgia! video

Russia trying to disarm Georgia?
"First, Georgian troops should return to their initial position and be partly demilitarised. Second, we need to sign a binding agreement on non-use of force."

 

[TashaN]

Did anyone complain when China claimed Hong Kong? Go figure!

Heck, they didn't even waste a damn single bullet, they just took it. The same will happen with Russia, but they will waste some bullets here and there of course for fun.

 

[darkendless]

Did anyone complain when China claimed Hong Kong? Go figure!

Interesting point there.

I think the population of the region are tired of fighting, Georgia breaking away from Russia hasn't exaclty been a smooth transition. I just wish these kind of things could be resolved diplomatically. Why start a war you know will end as fast as it has begun?

 

[kai]

Did anyone complain when China claimed Hong Kong? Go figure!

Heck, they didn't even waste a damn single bullet, they just took it. The same will happen with Russia, but they will waste some bullets here and there of course for fun.

china was perfectly within its rights to claim Hong Kong TasaN the UK only leased it from them.

 

[TashaN]

china was perfectly within its rights to claim Hong Kong TasaN the UK only leased it from them.

As it leased from everybody else then helped them to set up their own country (singapore?)

 

[kai]

As it leased from everybody else then helped them to set up their own country (singapore?)

i dont understand ?

Singapore reverted to British rule immediately postwar, in 1945. Eighteen years later the city, having achieved independence from Britain, merged with Malaya, Sabah and Sarawak to form Malaysia. However, less than two years later it seceded from the federation and became an independent republic on 9 August 1965. Singapore joined the United Nations on September 21 that same year.


Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TashaN]

i dont understand ?

Singapore reverted to British rule immediately postwar, in 1945. Eighteen years later the city, having achieved independence from Britain, merged with Malaya, Sabah and Sarawak to form Malaysia. However, less than two years later it seceded from the federation and became an independent republic on 9 August 1965. Singapore joined the United Nations on September 21 that same year.


Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So you are saying they got independent without help from anybody at all? just like that, they decided and did it by themselves?

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm sorry to admit it, but I bet this has nothing to do with protecting democracy, but in protecting our oil pipeline that goes through Georgia.... same old story.

Well of course. It has always been the profits and not the people that America has been worried about.

 

[kai]

So you are saying they got independent without help from anybody at all? just like that, they decided and did it by themselves?

well lets look at that.


Post-war Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


i am sure you have a point tasan but i dont see what it is?

 

[kai]

Well of course. It has always been the profits and not the people that America has been worried about.

is there no situation that the US can be seen to be helping people ? is there always an alterior motive ? the stock answer is always "its about oil" are you saying that if say Britain or japan or some other ally of the US was attacked they would not come to our aid because theres no profit in it?

 

[sandandfoam]

is there no situation that the US can be seen to be helping people ? is there always an alterior motive ? the stock answer is always "its about oil" are you saying that if say Britain or japan or some other ally of the US was attacked they would not come to our aid because theres no profit in it?

I have a suspicion that all sides here are acting the blackguard. The Georgian government were blackguarding to launch an attack on South Ossetia, the Russians are blackguarding by advancing into Georgia proper, the US seems to me to be playing power games. Blackguards

 

[kai]

blackguards a great word that

black·guard (bl

g

rd, -ärd

)
n. 1. A thoroughly unprincipled person; a scoundrel.
2. A foul-mouthed person.

tr.v. black·guard·ed, black·guard·ing, black·guards To abuse verbally; revile.


its an old word that should be revived and i intend to use it

 

[sandandfoam]

I was looking at this on the news last night
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edit - I couldn't paste the clip. It's on this page RTÉ News: Nine News titled 'Russia begins Georgia withdrawal'
Approx. 58 seconds in a a very frazzled looking Georgian president is caught on camera. Is that an EU flag behind him? If so what is it doing there?

 

[kai]

just noting the Russians are still there!


The UN Security Council is deadlocked over the situation in Georgia with the US and Russia rejecting rival resolutions on the crisis. Washington says it is prepared to veto a Russian resolution seeking to implement a six-point ceasefire plan.

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | UN split on Ossetia resolutions

 

[kai]

still there the Russian bear

The US and France have accused Russia of failing to comply with the terms of its ceasefire with Georgia by creating buffer zones and checkpoints.
BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Russia accused of abusing truce

 

[sandandfoam]

I was forwarded this in an email,

Russian soldiers look on as Georgia burns
THE RUSSIA-Georgia war has revealed a new balance of power in the world--and exposed the hypocrisy of U.S. politicians and the media who decry the imperialism emanating from Moscow, but embrace it when it's made in the USA.
John McCain, of course, wins the prize for setting the most outrageous double standard. "In the 21st century," he informed us, "nations don't invade other nations." Unless, of course, we're talking about Afghanistan or Iraq, and the invading power happens to be the United States. McCain demanded an immediate pullout of all Russian forces from Georgia and insisted upon its "territorial integrity"--even as he claims the right for the U.S. to occupy Iraq for the next 100 years.
The supposedly progressive Barack Obama sounded little different. "I have condemned Russian aggression, and today I reiterate my demand that Russia abide by the cease-fire," he said. "Russia must know that its actions will have consequences."
One can imagine how a President Obama would respond if Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin or President Dimitri Medvedev declared that he wouldn't withdraw all troops from Georgia right away, but would leave behind a large occupation force in order to be "as careful in getting out of Georgia as we were careless in getting in." That, of course, is Obama's excuse for keeping up to 50,000 U.S. troops in Iraq for "force protection," the defense of U.S. military personnel and "anti-terrorist" missions--the same kind of pretext that Russia used to move beyond Georgia's disputed South Ossetia region to a full-fledged invasion.
The media has been even more two-faced than the politicians. The same news outlets that parroted the Pentagon whitewash of civilian casualties in the horrific U.S. blitz on Falluja in Iraq in 2004 or aerial bombardment of wedding parties in Afghanistan now breathlessly report on the Russian bombs and artillery shells that hit apartment buildings and markets.
For the U.S. media, when Washington military action causes civilian deaths--between 600,000 and more than 1 million in Iraq, according to some estimates--it's "collateral damage," a regrettable but unavoidable part of modern warfare. Yet when a Russian plane drops a bomb that kills innocent bystanders, it's a barbaric disregard for human life. One wonders just how much more unpopular the U.S. war in Iraq would be if the media worked as hard at exposing civilian casualties in that country as it has in Georgia.

from here A newer world order | SocialistWorker.org