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Voter Fraud.... NEVER!

Discussion in 'Elections' started by KenS, May 21, 2020.

  1. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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  2. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Before there was love, there was silence
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    I disagree. I always vote absentee. You have to provide a form of ID, anyway, like your license or ID number or last 4 digits of your SS number. No need to make it any harder to vote. Some people are homebound.
     
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  3. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    How is voter presence with an ID going to prevent an election judge from taking bribes? I'm not seeing the reasoning here?

    I live in Colorado. We've been voting by mail in almost every election (except for attempts to recall an elected official) for years now.

    Years!

    There are no -- NONE, NADDA, ZILCH -- substantiated reports by either Democrats or Republicans of any voter fraud beyond one or two isolated cases of single individuals that could just as easily have been confused mistakes as they might have been intentional efforts at fraud. That is, they involved people most likely confused about the fact you can't change your vote after you have mailed in your first ballot by asking for and mailing in a replacement ballot with a different vote.

    That's millions and millions of votes over the years with no fraud to speak of.

    So where in Tarnations is the need to get me out of my plush blue chair and comfy cottage, march me down to City Hall, force me to stand in a long, long, long line right behind the woman wearing too much perfume, and then vote for a candidate that I probably despise only slightly less than the alternate candidate? Please tell where the need is?

    'Cause you will get my mail in ballot only when you at last pry it from my cold, dying mailbox!

    Or something like that.
     
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  4. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    have you heard the name?.....Diebold
    they build the voting machines

    several years ago someone's grandmother down loaded a program
    she got jibberish
    took it to an expert
    and it turned out to be a means of kicking the voting results

    the expose' hit the tv screen

    BUT...Dieblod is still making the machines
    AND the ability to hack the system may still be there
     
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  5. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    By the way I think it's an outrage that we Coloradans are forced by an oppressive and tyrannical State Government to pay the postage on our return ballot envelopes! Good Gods, where is the convenience in that???? It's insufferable, is what it is! I'm going to take on the State House! I'm going to assault the Governor's Mansion! Just tell me where the mail-in torches and pitchforks are.

    Mail-in elections haven't spoiled me. Nope. Not at all.
     
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  6. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Before there was love, there was silence
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    We have to pay return postage here, too. I think that's messed up. It should be completely free to vote.
     
  7. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Two, maybe three years back, I read a news report that it had taken a 'pro hacker' hired for the purpose all of 15 - 20 minutes to successfully figure out and then execute hacking into an onsite Dieblod machine and changing its vote count. According to the Company, what he did was impossible.
     
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  8. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    the expose' went on.....
    the hack can be performed from a basement anywhere USA

    and the old woman is being sued for hacking Diebold
     
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  9. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    When I lived in Papua New Guinea, voter fraud was rife (albeit in a kind of localised manner, rather than holistically organised).
    All voting was in person, and all voters had to present an id. They then had indelible ink stamped on their thumb so they couldn't vote again at a different booth.

    Of course, tucking one hand in your pocket and presenting your other thumb at the next booth works just fine.
    I was an interested observer (I wasn't eligible to vote there) but saw this multiple times without any checking or repercussions at all. It was fascinating to me at the time. (This was in 1997, so I'm hoping their processes have improved by now...)

    This doesn't have too much to do with the OP, just thought you might find it amusing. But I would make the point that a well thought through process, and protections are really what you need, regardless of whether voting is in person, by mail, or via a pc.

    I would say that computerised processes make large scale fraud more possible, simply because of centralisation of data, and all the inherent streamlining that brings.
     
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  10. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    One of the comedy/political shows did a very interesting story on this around the time of some fear of Russian hackers.
    The basic premise was 'sure, the Russians could hack our voting, but why waste time worrying about them when pretty much any inbred fool with 10 minutes to kill could do the same'

    It was scary.
    There were certain models of machine that had exposed maintenance and programming gateways, effectively, to allow for software updates, etc. But those same gateways were horrendously exposed to world wide internet access. I'll see if I can dig out a link, but I can't quite remember if it was Oliver/Colbert/Stewart...
     
  11. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Not just the US...
    Some of their machines were not connected to the internet at all, which meant in person maintenance was required, but this was FAR safer than machines allowing remote access and updates.
     
  12. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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  13. Deidre

    Deidre Follow thy heart

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    I think we should be able to vote online. They can keep the sticker ''I voted!"

    Maybe someday...
     
  14. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Another Tuesday in the US. A society in which winning has become more important than the idea of fair elections and where the law abiding majority (if it still is a majority) is unable to reign in the criminals, is a failed democracy.
    The above is not an outlier. News of election fraud (not voter fraud!) are frequent. Voter role purges, Gerrymandering, voting machines without paper trail - and no effective resistance.
    I think this will be an important chapter in the upcoming best seller "Decline and Fall of the US Empire".
     
  15. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    This year alone I suspect will probably be privy to the worst examples of election fraud encountered so far. All the way from voters to the politicians themselves.

    An all-around fraud fete.
     
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  16. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    I've seen people saying voter fraud (or specific forms of it) are very rare but I've not seen anyone claim it never happens at all. Do you have any examples? Or did you just "miscount" the votes? ;)

    I don't see how voter ID would have prevented this fraud in any way. Isn't this a classic example of why the singular obsession with voter ID in the USA is irrational? That isn't to say voter ID is automatically a bad idea but there are plenty of other means by which elections results can be corrupted, often much more significant in individual impact, which need at least as much attention.
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Maybe tell Trump and Pence that since they've voted by mail.

    Study after study have discounted this "problem", and Trump ignores the simple fact that in Texas and Arizona, both "red states", voting by mail is used by most residents. And yet he threatens to withhold funds from Michigan and Nevada because we have that option, which of course would be unconstitutional-- but does Trump really care if it is or isn't?.

    Also, does one really want to stand in a long line on November 4th if we get hit by a strong 2nd wave of the virus this fall? If I want to be Macho Man and show how tough I am, then I guess I'm willing to sacrifice my kids, grandkids, friends, and neighbors so I could have my ego-trip.

    [btw, I'm not stating nor implying that you would do that as I would fear losing my inheritance from you-- wait a minute! :eek:]
     
  18. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Honestly, I'd much rather have voting by mail rather than voting by internet.
     
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  19. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    It seems to work in Estonia but I also have my doubts. It's the same problem as with voting machines: there is no paper trail. It's an invitation for fraud.
    (They could set up a printer that can be viewed on a webcam, maybe.)
     
  20. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    aaaahhh…..no

    currently...thousands of SS numbers have been hijacked and the stimulus money is disappearing
    voting......would go the same way
     
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