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vision qouest

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
One may learn songs, dance steps, drum beats and get to meet Indians, but these are public events where people get together. Like a spring parade or county fair.

I suggest looking up the meaning of pow wow. Not really an event where one can learn about vision quests.
Not necessarily at the event itself... but it gets people out and actually talking to First Nations people in person, rather than expecting answers from the internet or a book. :cool:

It's a good first step at removing some of the stereotypes to actually meet people in person. Plus, a lot of the elders I've met are more willing to answer polite questions from tourists at an event like a pow-wow than they are on the street.

wa:do
 

Nashitheki

Hollawitta
I should go to more Pow Wows,

however sometimes we’ll hit the Pagan festivals. Pay the fees, set up camp. A little drumming, some cheezy Soundscape-like medly from my Lumbee friend's homemade flute, maybe shake the gourd rattle a bit and wait for them to start drifting in. It wouldn’t be all that difficult to 'spank' the overly curious or any new ager in a little trade, but we go pretty easy on them. Sure some of them will glare at us while we’re grilling up some meat, but they’ll buy all the fringed deerskin pouches and carved antler items we have.

Sometimes they’ll ask us about vision quests, medicine bundles and spirit guides, but my friends and I, being of different tribal heritages, will usually tell them no more than what is already known by historians or anthropologists, never revealing anything about our own personal association with the spirit world.

Usually if they persist upon attempting to attain more information, one of us will stand and with a hand motion that encompasses their vast Pagan encampment then ask - “What do you have here ?”

My favorite part of these festivals is when all the drummers throw down by a huge roaring fire, then the true sense of fellowship engulfs us all no matter what the spirituality.

My cousin would go just to charm favors from some of the women. Before the booze laid him low, he kind of had that Rodney Grant 'mystic warrior' thing going for him. We thought he was taking advantage of these ladies and sometimes that would screw up trade.
 

Nashitheki

Hollawitta
Along what is now the coastal and tidal zones of North Carolina and Virginia, southeastern tribes such as the Secotan, Chawanock, and Pamunkey practiced a coming of age ceremony called Huskenaw. Boys ranging in age from 10 to 15 years destine to be great hunters, warriors and medicine men, would be taken from their mothers, symbolically ‘slain‘, then separated from everyone else for most of the year where they would fast and ingest datura stramonium (jimsomweed), have visions of their lives as men all the while forgetting their boyhoods. Conversing with helpful spirits, they were given new names and songs.

Having touched upon such a vision quest here, I do not encourage the use of datura stramonium as improper knowledge of this plant can shred one’s mind into bits or worse, kill. Some heavy duty spirits are associated with that plant.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
I should go to more Pow Wows,

however sometimes we’ll hit the Pagan festivals. Pay the fees, set up camp. A little drumming, some cheezy Soundscape-like medly from my Lumbee friend's homemade flute, maybe shake the gourd rattle a bit and wait for them to start drifting in. It wouldn’t be all that difficult to 'spank' the overly curious or any new ager in a little trade, but we go pretty easy on them. Sure some of them will glare at us while we’re grilling up some meat, but they’ll buy all the fringed deerskin pouches and carved antler items we have.

Sometimes they’ll ask us about vision quests, medicine bundles and spirit guides, but my friends and I, being of different tribal heritages, will usually tell them no more than what is already known by historians or anthropologists, never revealing anything about our own personal association with the spirit world.

Usually if they persist upon attempting to attain more information, one of us will stand and with a hand motion that encompasses their vast Pagan encampment then ask - “What do you have here ?”

My favorite part of these festivals is when all the drummers throw down by a huge roaring fire, then the true sense of fellowship engulfs us all no matter what the spirituality.

My cousin would go just to charm favors from some of the women. Before the booze laid him low, he kind of had that Rodney Grant 'mystic warrior' thing going for him. We thought he was taking advantage of these ladies and sometimes that would screw up trade.
My favorite part of the Pow-wow was after the tourists went home and everyone had a huge shared meal, we would pull one big drum back out and the drummers from all the drums would gather around a shared drum. A lot of the women would gather around them with their rattles and we would all just go to town.
No MC, just us and the dancers.
This was when we would get to do the really spiritual songs as well as just having fun. Like seeing who would break first while doing a mosquito dance... our drum was wicked fast and there was one dancer who could keep up with us and make us call a draw. :cool:
Other times we helped people who needed healing songs or memorial songs for passed loved ones... things that weren't for the public.

Other times you would just sit around a fire and gab with people from different nations or parts of the region and catch up on things or get to know new people.

I really miss it. We hope to be able to go to a few again soon... my son loves the drum and used to dance in the womb whenever I sang or listened to drum music.

wa:do
 

Nashitheki

Hollawitta
Unlike their Siouan speaking kin and often enemies, the Lakota, the Mandan were sedentary, dwelling in large villages of roomy earth lodges surrounded by palisades. Said to have once lived in Ohio, Indiana and Wisconsin, like other Siouan tribes, they were pushed across the Mississippi by Algonquian and long range marauding Haudenosaunee warriors. Warring with other tribes across the Mississippi River, the Mandan slowly migrated up the Missouri River into what is now North Dakota. While many of these sedentary former woodland Indians such as the Absaroka, Cheyenne and Lakota ‘forgot the corn’ and took to full time Buffalo hunting, even more so after the re-introduction of the horse to the Great Plains, the Mandan along with the Arikara, Hidatsa and Pawnee remained village dwelling farmers and part time hunters.

When early 18th century French traders encountered the Mandan, the tribe, it was said to had numbered several thousand living in villages along the upper Missouri River. The French also reported these Mandan already owned horses. In 1804, Mandan hospitality, sheltered and fed the Lewis and Clark expedition during the harsh winter. Almost 30 years later the Mandan were visited by early American artist George Catlin.

From that first French encounter to 1837, The Mandan were greatly reduced by several smallpox epidemics, the last one almost over night leaving only 130 people alive out of around 2000.

Out of all the explorers and traders, artist George Catlin described these Mandan and their culture through his journal and paintings. In recording this culture, Catlin also went into some detail concerning the Mandan’s most important ceremony - Okipa or Okeepa.

The four day Okipa ceremony opened by a spiritual leader acting as the ’Lone Man’, recited Mandan history and legend before a long dance by the Buffalo Society.

Inside the large Okipa lodge there were young men who had been fasting and readying themselves for ritual torture overseen by a medicine man known as Speckled Eagle and his assistants. Skewered through the chest, back, sometimes arms and thighs, they were suspended from roof beams and weighed down by buffalo skulls suspended from them, They hung until loosing consciousness or having the skewers tear free. Upon the floor they would have visions and often had Speckled Eagle chop off one or more of their fingers as an offering to the spirits. Returning to consciousness, the young men were dragged out of the Okipa lodge and raced around the Buffalo Dancers.

The Okipa ceremony not only introduced boys into manhood, it also called in the buffalo and insured a good harvest along with overall prosperity.
 

Nashitheki

Hollawitta
Okipa by George Catlin
334i7fd.jpg
 
And how would I be received if I went in acting the part of a researcher? That is, expecting to study the outcome and experience the phenomenon without "giving in" to the possible reality of it.

Many cultures do not allow "observers" in sacred rituals. If you don't want to give in to the reality, do not do it. Ask others who have and write about what they felt. Sincerity is very important in these rituals. Also, to experience it IS to give in to it. As a novice, do you think once on that path you can just jump off? or try to fight it? That would defeat your purpose and possibly be very dangerous to you. :no:
 

Nashitheki

Hollawitta
Many cultures do not allow "observers" in sacred rituals. If you don't want to give in to the reality, do not do it. Ask others who have and write about what they felt. Sincerity is very important in these rituals. Also, to experience it IS to give in to it. As a novice, do you think once on that path you can just jump off? or try to fight it? That would defeat your purpose and possibly be very dangerous to you. :no:

Many Indians are rather leary when it comes to revealing such information as of late it is often sold by others for material gain rather than shared for spiritual gain.

However many of us are friendly enough to offer the basics.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Many cultures do not allow "observers" in sacred rituals. If you don't want to give in to the reality, do not do it. Ask others who have and write about what they felt. Sincerity is very important in these rituals. Also, to experience it IS to give in to it. As a novice, do you think once on that path you can just jump off? or try to fight it? That would defeat your purpose and possibly be very dangerous to you. :no:
I can't really say "Boy, I posted that a long time ago", but it sure feels like it. I understand this concept now. :angel2:
 
I should go to more Pow Wows,

however sometimes we’ll hit the Pagan festivals. Pay the fees, set up camp. A little drumming, some cheezy Soundscape-like medly from my Lumbee friend's homemade flute, maybe shake the gourd rattle a bit and wait for them to start drifting in. It wouldn’t be all that difficult to 'spank' the overly curious or any new ager in a little trade, but we go pretty easy on them. Sure some of them will glare at us while we’re grilling up some meat, but they’ll buy all the fringed deerskin pouches and carved antler items we have.

Sometimes they’ll ask us about vision quests, medicine bundles and spirit guides, but my friends and I, being of different tribal heritages, will usually tell them no more than what is already known by historians or anthropologists, never revealing anything about our own personal association with the spirit world.

Usually if they persist upon attempting to attain more information, one of us will stand and with a hand motion that encompasses their vast Pagan encampment then ask - “What do you have here ?”

My favorite part of these festivals is when all the drummers throw down by a huge roaring fire, then the true sense of fellowship engulfs us all no matter what the spirituality.

My cousin would go just to charm favors from some of the women. Before the booze laid him low, he kind of had that Rodney Grant 'mystic warrior' thing going for him. We thought he was taking advantage of these ladies and sometimes that would screw up trade.

Thanks for sharing this. I had to clean the screen from where tea came out of my nose.:biglaugh::tsk:
 

Nashitheki

Hollawitta
Thanks for sharing this. I had to clean the screen from where tea came out of my nose.:biglaugh::tsk:

Those meeting where paths cross. It is better when those crossings are at good places and those meetings are pleasant.

It is indeed sad these are times when people have been swayed away from their own traditions and connections with the ancient spirits their people once knew. Although there is concern about the various ways they attempt to reconnect, it is good they are making the first steps to do so.

I have to ask myself what power was strong enough to make people all over this world to lose their way ?
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Those meeting where paths cross. It is better when those crossings are at good places and those meetings are pleasant.

It is indeed sad these are times when people have been swayed away from their own traditions and connections with the ancient spirits their people once knew. Although there is concern about the various ways they attempt to reconnect, it is good they are making the first steps to do so.

I have to ask myself what power was strong enough to make people all over this world to lose their way ?

I wish I knew the answer to your last question, Na****heki; I don't, but I suspect it is selfishness. It has always existed in all cultures, yet much of written history seems to be about how being selfish has seemingly taken over--or at least those who are selfish have taken over--entire peoples, nations, the world. It takes people from what traditional beliefs seem to see as the right paths. That's what I see, and the spirits guide me away from it. I hope.
 
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