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Vertebrates on the brink as indicators of biological annihilation and the sixth mass extinction

Pete in Panama

Pete in Panama

Active Member
We Never Know said:
Something to think about.

"More than 400 vertebrate species became extinct in the last 100 y, extinctions that would have taken up to 10,000 y in the normal course of evolution"

Vertebrates on the brink as indicators of biological annihilation and the sixth mass extinction
Click to expand...
How about we agree that there is enormous political/financial pressure on the scientific community for publication with the major forums. This paper can all very well be true but until this is solidly and universally verified my personal inclination is to put the subject on the back burner (if not in the fridge --or garbage maybe).
 
Secret Chief

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Pete in Panama said:
until this is solidly and universally verified my personal inclination is to put the subject on the back burner
Click to expand...

And at that point, will you care? Or do your bit?

This is exactly the attitude allowing the biosphere be wrecked - the sixth great extinction. But never mind, as long as humans are OK. We are part of the web of life, not separate from it. The Earth is our only home, it should be cherished and protected, but no - we are raping it and treating it like a toilet.
 
Pete in Panama

Pete in Panama

Active Member
Secret Chief said:
...we are raping it and treating it like a toilet.
Click to expand...
So if you are treating my surroundings like a toilet u can stop if u want. fwiw, I haven't noticed your doing anything bad but that could be just me.

Meanwhile I keep hearing from the doom'n'gloom crowd saying all the animal life is going extinct & in my experience it's simply not true. A while back some were saying for example that the polar bear was extincting --it's not. There are more than ever.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Pete in Panama said:
So if you are treating my surroundings like a toilet u can stop if u want. fwiw, I haven't noticed your doing anything bad but that could be just me.

Meanwhile I keep hearing from the doom'n'gloom crowd saying all the animal life is going extinct & in my experience it's simply not true. A while back some were saying for example that the polar bear was extincting --it's not. There are more than ever.
Click to expand...
That is simply not true. The problem is that polar bear populations are complex. There are areas where the numbers are increasing, though those are areas that are of currently low populations already so they do not have a major effect on the total population of bears. There are areas where the populations are stable, and those appear to be the majority right now. And there are areas of declining population. Overall it is hard to say whether the numbers are going up or down.

Are polar bear populations increasing? - Polar Bears International

Polar bear status and population

polarbearpopulationmap-updates2019-web-populationpage.png


What is clear is that polar bear habitats are currently shrinking and will continue to be lost due to AGW. That means that the total population is under fire and will go down, if not today then very soon. You can see in the above graphic that there are large areas of "Data deficient" where there are only vague estimates of populations and no real knowledge of increasing or decreasing. If one goes by known populations it appears that population looks like it is going down, but again, that is not totally clear.

You may be listening to dishonest sources that only quote the numbers of areas of increasing populations
 
Secret Chief

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Pete in Panama said:
So if you are treating my surroundings like a toilet u can stop if u want. fwiw, I haven't noticed your doing anything bad but that could be just me.

Meanwhile I keep hearing from the doom'n'gloom crowd saying all the animal life is going extinct & in my experience it's simply not true. A while back some were saying for example that the polar bear was extincting --it's not. There are more than ever.
Click to expand...

One species is no basis for evaluation of the whole biosphere. It's happening, it's that simple.

"The Holocene extinction, otherwise referred to as the sixth mass extinction or Anthropocene extinction, is an ongoing extinction event of species during the present Holocene epoch (with the more recent time sometimes called Anthropocene) as a result of human activity.
.....

The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at 100 to 1,000 times higher than natural background extinction rates."

Holocene extinction - Wikipedia
 
Secret Chief

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Pete in Panama said:
How about we first agree that the topic is controversial. Can we agree on that or does this simply remain a good versus evil situation
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No, not simply remain anything. Not good versus evil. It's reality versus denial (either because of ignorance, stupidity or political motivation).
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Pete in Panama said:
Oh yeah? Well YOUR sources are more dishonest than---

How about we first agree that the topic is controversial. Can we agree on that or does this simply remain a good versus evil situation w/ u?
Click to expand...
Don't be foolish. There really is no controversy. You are drinking the deniers Kool Aid right now. Odds are that you do not even understand the greenhouse effect. The Greenhouse Effect has been well understood for over a hundred years.

Do you want to go over the basics and we can work up from there?
 
Pete in Panama

Pete in Panama

Active Member
Secret Chief said:
One species is no basis for evaluation of the whole biosphere. It's happening, it's that simple.

"The Holocene extinction, otherwise referred to as the sixth mass extinction or Anthropocene extinction, is an ongoing extinction event of species during the present Holocene epoch (with the more recent time sometimes called Anthropocene) as a result of human activity.
.....

The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at 100 to 1,000 times higher than natural background extinction rates."

Holocene extinction - Wikipedia
Click to expand...
--and you're going w/ that crowd & any attempt on my part to cite other sources will be met with derision.

Maybe there are yet a few things we can actually agree on & then build from there (--then again if ur sole aim is a food fight pse give me a headsup so I can grab my green beans).
  • This is a passionate subject, hard to see w/ disinterest.
  • This is a controversial subject & different groups cite different sources.
  • Each side disparages the other group's sources.
I still honestly think that there are ways we can work together to piece out the truth from this mess, one way would involve heavy reliance on shared empirical testing and there're probably lots of other ways. Do let me know if ur interested.
 
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