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Vedanta and Buddhism
- Thread starter Onkara
- Start date
The core difference between Vedanta and Buddhism is God or a belief in something specific as the foundation for existance. The problem I think is when we consider God as having a divine personality or will (as in Abrahamic religion) which is seperate to our own as this difference is what causes a duality. This duality Buddhism and Advaita both outrightly reject. So there is one foundation, albeit understood differently in Buddhism and Advaita. How that foundation differs and how we come to understand the individual and the multitude is important to this thread. 
What would also be interesting is how some schools of Vedanta which accept a divine personality and yet can still be non-dual. Ultimately its difference with Buddhism would be more profound.
What would also be interesting is how some schools of Vedanta which accept a divine personality and yet can still be non-dual. Ultimately its difference with Buddhism would be more profound.
Metempsychosis
Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
Advaita Vedanta is closest thing to Buddhism.Both are non-dual.Buddhism says reality is Shunyata..and advaita says it is purnata ...Just think drop of water being added to ocean of water.It mixes homogeneously,making the small amount of water look like a ocean.It becomes indistinguishable from the ocean..Buddhism says the drop has become zero,for there is no "drop" now.Advaita says drop has become ocean.
In the turiya(or beyond) state the contradictions meet.So,shunyata and purnata(Brahman) are same.There is one thing that make opposie polarities meet.That is Love (which is God).
Such analogies are present in Bhrihadaranyaka Upanishad (the oldest Upanishad)
When Atman=brahman,there is no one to say this is atman ,that is brahman etc .The statement becomes superfluous.These statement when taken out of context make advaita look like hypocrisy.
In paramartika(absolute) level of advaita the truth is brahman alone.Sage Vasistha says we can imagine thousands of Jivas in Brahman.That is in that level,when they say Brahman ,it includes the Jivas .Buddhism removes the "concept" of Jiva right from the beginning.But Jivas are true in Vyavaharika(practical) level of advaita .
I cannot compare other philosophies with Buddhism ,they are not non-dual (or non-attributive) IMHO.
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dharma_seeker
Member
why VEDIC Dharma calls Bhuddhism a Naastik religion? Why were there so many conflicts in the past between Vedic Dharma, Bhuddhism and Jainism? I have heard that Bhuddhism and Jainism even abused Vedic Dharma people as demons, Adharmi etc.
If there is no GOD in Bhuddism, then who are we answerable to for our KARMAs? We have to give account for our KARMAs to someone after we die ie GOD
If there is no GOD in Bhuddism, then who are we answerable to for our KARMAs? We have to give account for our KARMAs to someone after we die ie GOD
Before I start, I must declare that my knowledge of Buddhism is limited. I will highlight the difference between Advaita and Buddhism as I understand.
Advaita is the Jnana path based on contemplation of the Mahavakyas of the Upanishads. e.g Aham Brahmasmi, Tat Tvam Asi, Pragnanam Brahma, Ayam Atma Brahma etc. Buddhism is based on quietening of the mind by meditation. Hence in Advaita, the contemplation is on the Brahman- the existence of Brahman is "taken for granted". In Buddhism, there is no assumption. When the mind is quietened, there is "Shunyata." Now, as Anti-religion puts it, Purnata and Shunyata can be viewed as different descriptions of the same.
Secondly, as I have already pointed out, the realized Advaitins have never quit Bhakti- there is a belief in God. In Buddhism, there is no direct referrence to God or Atman as per my understanding which is based on interpretations by the current Buddhists.
I consider Lord Buddha as an Avatar of God and hence I do not doubt his teachings. But, I have a gut feeling that his teachings are not taken in the right spirit by the current Buddhism sects. The "Shunyata" is falsely believed to indicate non existence of God; in my opinion, "Shunyata" indicates abscence of the "Prakriti" and its "parts" and it does not negate the existence of Brahman.The Panchasheela principles are very similar to Sanatana Dharma principles, belief in Karma, rebirths etc are similar too.
I consider Nirvana as equivalent to "Jivan Mukta" in Sanatana Dharma. But, in my opinion, that is not the end. The real stuff starts after one is Jivan Mukta..... the Parabhakti is bestowed only on such pious souls.
Regards,
Advaita is the Jnana path based on contemplation of the Mahavakyas of the Upanishads. e.g Aham Brahmasmi, Tat Tvam Asi, Pragnanam Brahma, Ayam Atma Brahma etc. Buddhism is based on quietening of the mind by meditation. Hence in Advaita, the contemplation is on the Brahman- the existence of Brahman is "taken for granted". In Buddhism, there is no assumption. When the mind is quietened, there is "Shunyata." Now, as Anti-religion puts it, Purnata and Shunyata can be viewed as different descriptions of the same.
Secondly, as I have already pointed out, the realized Advaitins have never quit Bhakti- there is a belief in God. In Buddhism, there is no direct referrence to God or Atman as per my understanding which is based on interpretations by the current Buddhists.
I consider Lord Buddha as an Avatar of God and hence I do not doubt his teachings. But, I have a gut feeling that his teachings are not taken in the right spirit by the current Buddhism sects. The "Shunyata" is falsely believed to indicate non existence of God; in my opinion, "Shunyata" indicates abscence of the "Prakriti" and its "parts" and it does not negate the existence of Brahman.The Panchasheela principles are very similar to Sanatana Dharma principles, belief in Karma, rebirths etc are similar too.
I consider Nirvana as equivalent to "Jivan Mukta" in Sanatana Dharma. But, in my opinion, that is not the end. The real stuff starts after one is Jivan Mukta..... the Parabhakti is bestowed only on such pious souls.
Regards,
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godrealized
Man who Realized God
Onkarah... Bhagavad Gita (also termed Vedanta... end of Vedas) differs from Buddhism in the sense... whole philosophy of Bhagavad Gita is based on God Almighty! As per Bhagavad Gita there is only one God termed Brahman in Hinduism! Brahman is one and only one (Brahman is also termed Parmatman, Ishwar, Bhagwan, Sanatana Purusha, Karta etc).
The whole philosophy of Vedanta (Bhagavad Gita) rotates around absolute faith in God Almighty! As per Bhagavad Gita... in absence of absolute faith in God Almighty nothing in field of spirituality can be achieved by any human being! We cannot see God yet, all believe in him! Why? It is based on faith that we believe in God Almighty similar as we believe in a flower based on its fragrance!
Contrary to Vedanta... Buddhism does not believe in concept of God! As per Buddhism soul atman is the only essence of life! The philosophy of Gautama Buddha is flawed! It has been interpreted in a wrong way! In absence of God Almighty nothing can exist in cosmos. Why? As per Bhagavad Gita only when God Almighty explodes self... cosmos gets created!
The definition of God Almighty as per Bhagavad Gita is... cluster of all purified souls atmans in the cosmos at a given moment of time! With occurrence of big bang... all souls atmans scattered all over cosmos at unimaginable speeds! In the melee they gathered impurities. To cleanse themselves of dross impurities within starts cosmic life cycle of every soul atman!
In the circumstances can we still say God Almighty does not exist as stipulated in Buddhism?
The whole philosophy of Vedanta (Bhagavad Gita) rotates around absolute faith in God Almighty! As per Bhagavad Gita... in absence of absolute faith in God Almighty nothing in field of spirituality can be achieved by any human being! We cannot see God yet, all believe in him! Why? It is based on faith that we believe in God Almighty similar as we believe in a flower based on its fragrance!
Contrary to Vedanta... Buddhism does not believe in concept of God! As per Buddhism soul atman is the only essence of life! The philosophy of Gautama Buddha is flawed! It has been interpreted in a wrong way! In absence of God Almighty nothing can exist in cosmos. Why? As per Bhagavad Gita only when God Almighty explodes self... cosmos gets created!
The definition of God Almighty as per Bhagavad Gita is... cluster of all purified souls atmans in the cosmos at a given moment of time! With occurrence of big bang... all souls atmans scattered all over cosmos at unimaginable speeds! In the melee they gathered impurities. To cleanse themselves of dross impurities within starts cosmic life cycle of every soul atman!
In the circumstances can we still say God Almighty does not exist as stipulated in Buddhism?
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Metempsychosis
Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
Does not Vedanta refers to Upanishads,Some sects don't even consider BG as a Shruti text...Anyway thats is not a problem.
There is no concept of "atman" in Buddhism...You are having a wrong view IMHO.
What existed before Big Bang?A primordial atom with infinite density (like a black hole).That is the Void which is ultimate reality of Buddhism.Vedanta calls it Brahman ,IMHO.
We are having a discussion on it here.
Buddhism does not say that God does not exists.It is silent and neutral.IMHO,there is no point in talking about existence of God,when we dont know "who we are?".Knowing ourself(the Buddha nature) is of foremost importance in Buddhism.Atleast Buddha,should be credited for bringing up a religion that requires little belief to start with .
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Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I see the differences between Advaita Vedanta and some groups in Buddhism for the large part as a difference of semantics:
-The Buddhist's says there is no soul. We say the Soul and God are One.
-The Buddhists call the transcendental reality Sunyata (E.G. "Emptiness" or "Voidness"). We say IT's Bliss.
The Buddhist says what reality is not. We say what reality is.
The Buddhists negative theology is probability a more accurate measure of reality. The Hindu's postive theology is more life affirming and inclusive. It is all just what your mind prefers.
The Lord Buddha did not teach any thing new. He just emphasized new concepts.
-The Buddhist's says there is no soul. We say the Soul and God are One.
-The Buddhists call the transcendental reality Sunyata (E.G. "Emptiness" or "Voidness"). We say IT's Bliss.
The Buddhist says what reality is not. We say what reality is.
The Buddhists negative theology is probability a more accurate measure of reality. The Hindu's postive theology is more life affirming and inclusive. It is all just what your mind prefers.
The Lord Buddha did not teach any thing new. He just emphasized new concepts.
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godrealized
Man who Realized God
Anti-religion... Vedanta... Bhagavad Gita definitely refers to Upanishads as they are independent treatises by respected sages and saints of that or previous era! No sect or religion is empowered to dissect wisdom contained in Bhagavad Gita! Why? Spirituality is beyond purview of religion! Spirituality is realizing our inner self... realizing our real truth of life!
The whole wisdom contained in Bhagavad Gita was invoked by Lord Krishna through power of Shruti (the universal means of communication through which independent souls atmans invoked wisdom of cosmos)! Those who claim otherwise feign ignorance!
Buddhism does not deny existence of atman... but their definition of atman... soul is somewhat different than Bhagavad Gita! They treat atman as an eternal unchanging self!
If we try understanding concept of big bang theory... all becomes clear by itself! Imagine a situation when dissolution of old cosmos is occurring! As per Bhagavad Gita devoid of all dross impurities within... volume of entire cosmos reduces to size of half a thumb! And what is this half a thumb? This half a thumb is what we know as God Almighty... the combined volume of all purified souls atmans in cosmos!
This massive primordial energy unable to contain itself for long again explodes with a big bang... giving rise to a new cosmos... a new journey of life! God Almighty... the size of half a thumb is not a void ... it is an absolute and abstract truth of life... proving Advaita Vedanta theory beyond doubt! Just before occurrence of big bang what exists is Brahman alone!
By remaining silent and neutral we are in denial mode! The basic doctrine of Bhagavad Gita from Gita press, Gorakhpur, India is available for mere $.60 (rupees 30/=) at most railway stations of India yet, the contents of it does not become clear to one! This results from our ignorance as primarily all human beings are born ignorant!
By gaining wisdom step-by-step we remove our ignorance and proceed ahead on spiritual path! That is how God Almighty ordained the cosmic system to be! The doctrines of Jainism contain much higher precepts than Buddhism... the prime reason why it has a lower following! In present times people are unable to grasp meaning of Jaina doctrines!
Mahavira... the 24th Tirthankara of Jainism came about 77 years earlier to Gautama Buddha! About 1000 years before Mahavira came Lord Krishna! It was during times of Lord Krishna... foundation for an absolutely pure document was laid! And Veda Vyasa finally put doctrine of Bhagavad Gita in front of mankind!
If we are unable to follow precepts contained in Bhagavad Gita... it is because we try understanding the document literally! No matter what... the contents of Bhagavad Gita can never be understood literally!
The whole wisdom contained in Bhagavad Gita was invoked by Lord Krishna through power of Shruti (the universal means of communication through which independent souls atmans invoked wisdom of cosmos)! Those who claim otherwise feign ignorance!
Buddhism does not deny existence of atman... but their definition of atman... soul is somewhat different than Bhagavad Gita! They treat atman as an eternal unchanging self!
If we try understanding concept of big bang theory... all becomes clear by itself! Imagine a situation when dissolution of old cosmos is occurring! As per Bhagavad Gita devoid of all dross impurities within... volume of entire cosmos reduces to size of half a thumb! And what is this half a thumb? This half a thumb is what we know as God Almighty... the combined volume of all purified souls atmans in cosmos!
This massive primordial energy unable to contain itself for long again explodes with a big bang... giving rise to a new cosmos... a new journey of life! God Almighty... the size of half a thumb is not a void ... it is an absolute and abstract truth of life... proving Advaita Vedanta theory beyond doubt! Just before occurrence of big bang what exists is Brahman alone!
By remaining silent and neutral we are in denial mode! The basic doctrine of Bhagavad Gita from Gita press, Gorakhpur, India is available for mere $.60 (rupees 30/=) at most railway stations of India yet, the contents of it does not become clear to one! This results from our ignorance as primarily all human beings are born ignorant!
By gaining wisdom step-by-step we remove our ignorance and proceed ahead on spiritual path! That is how God Almighty ordained the cosmic system to be! The doctrines of Jainism contain much higher precepts than Buddhism... the prime reason why it has a lower following! In present times people are unable to grasp meaning of Jaina doctrines!
Mahavira... the 24th Tirthankara of Jainism came about 77 years earlier to Gautama Buddha! About 1000 years before Mahavira came Lord Krishna! It was during times of Lord Krishna... foundation for an absolutely pure document was laid! And Veda Vyasa finally put doctrine of Bhagavad Gita in front of mankind!
If we are unable to follow precepts contained in Bhagavad Gita... it is because we try understanding the document literally! No matter what... the contents of Bhagavad Gita can never be understood literally!
Can u please quote where BG "defines" God? Buddhism does not say anything about Atman either. Which shloka says that Universe is created when "God explodes self"?
One thing I totally agree with in your post is that nothing can be achieved in the field of spirituality without absolute faith in God.
Regards,
godrealized
Man who Realized God
Satsangi... I may not be able to give you exact details right now but moment my live commentary on Bhagavad Gita starts on Internet... I shall do so! Please send your query by e-mail also... so that I remember! It is not in one shloka verse this exact truth of life has been stated but many shlokas verses contained this absolute fact of life!
The big bang theory covers all aspects of life including origination of cosmos! This defeat the theory of creationists who believe that cosmic system came into being in seven days! Hinduism and furthermore Bhagavad Gita has withstood every single test of time... prime reason why in coming years Hinduism would become number one religion of world!
The big bang theory covers all aspects of life including origination of cosmos! This defeat the theory of creationists who believe that cosmic system came into being in seven days! Hinduism and furthermore Bhagavad Gita has withstood every single test of time... prime reason why in coming years Hinduism would become number one religion of world!
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
It s true that the Lord Buddha refused to even talk about God. Over time it became became necessary for large number of Buddhists to have some kind of bhakti. This can be seen in a number of sects of Buddhism. Pure land is one example of Buddhist devotion.
Pure land Buddhism is a devotional or faith oriented type of Buddhism focused on Amitabha Buddha. One of the basic Mahayana Pure Land ideas is that Nirvana has become very difficult to attain, it is only by devotion to Amitabha Buddha and one be reborn in the Pure Land. (a perfect realm in which all become enlighten.)
For most people devotion is the easiest path to Moksha. The Buddhist had to find a way to have a Bhakti path with in Buddhism. There just is not getting around the fact that people are different and they need different methodologies to find there own personal way to truth.
dharma_seeker
Member
^^^ there is concept of Hriyanayagarbha in vedas and in other puranas as well. It is similar to modern science theory of big bang. The universe was a bindu at one point and then from the sound OM (bang) the material universe came out. I can post the reference as well. But there is a good youtube video on this concept of creation in great details. most of the verses in this youtube video are taken from vedas and upanishads. here is the link:
[youtube]LaGleromH4Y[/youtube]
YouTube - Hymns From The Vedas - Creation
[youtube]LaGleromH4Y[/youtube]
YouTube - Hymns From The Vedas - Creation
dharma_seeker
Member
The Bindu (dot) in Shaivism is the Few Millimeter Long Primordial Seed
The Kashmiri cult of Shaivism is more explicit in its account of creation. The whole universe was at first concentrated at one point or dot (Bindu). It is the Primordial Seed of creation. After a period of germination it undergoes an explosion (Sphota) resulting in the sound (Nada) of creation (OM). (Sound is used in the scriptures for all kinds of vibrations.) All creation (Kala) proceeds from this sound. Thus the doctrine of Nada, Bindu, and Kala is but an implied reference to the Big Bang theory of creation.
The Kashmiri cult of Shaivism is more explicit in its account of creation. The whole universe was at first concentrated at one point or dot (Bindu). It is the Primordial Seed of creation. After a period of germination it undergoes an explosion (Sphota) resulting in the sound (Nada) of creation (OM). (Sound is used in the scriptures for all kinds of vibrations.) All creation (Kala) proceeds from this sound. Thus the doctrine of Nada, Bindu, and Kala is but an implied reference to the Big Bang theory of creation.
Morning Star Dhamma
Member
My impression is that the Buddhadhamma does not focus particularly on whether there is or is not a "drop," or an "ocean." What we can say is that no matter what we perceive, it is not me, not mine, not-self.
Metempsychosis
Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
Vedanta tells that we are a part of the Universal Self.This is exactly opposite what Buddhists say.That is why they are similar.
Metempsychosis
Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
Haha ...No-self or anatta of Buddhism is again a thought!!!
.How can we say there is nothingness,if there is no thought..there is nothing of nothingness too.
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Morning Star Dhamma
Member
Thanks, that's a great observation. I think it's helpful for practice when we are able to highlight areas of resonance among different approaches.
On the other hand, one pitfall with any concept of "universal self" is that it still makes an assumption about self in the first place, or in other words, it's still "self" centered. This is a practical issue.