Vatican Blasts Trans Surgery, Surogacy, Etc

[Kathryn]

Are they church based? That's one of the things I had difficulties in determining. Most of the time, the name doesn't reveal if a charity is secular or religious. The rating organizations don't list it, and even the websites are suspiciously silent.

I don't believe so. I've researched them pretty thoroughly.

 

[Kathryn]

Many consider the Vatican a state. It gets to be called out for its crap.

OK, you do that.

 

[Brian2]

The pope is opposing the science and thus attacking trans folk. As are you.

Many people oppose the uses that science is put to and much of the time it is because those people want what is best for people.
Eg. nuclear weapons, fracking the earth for gas, poisoning the world with insecticides and herbicides etc etc.
These things are real science. Gender fluidity is theoretical only.

 

[Brian2]

Yes, he said what we do is an affront to human dignity. That is an attack on trans people, amd given his position helps to fuel transphobia.
And as we've also seen, it helps to weight to the idea that children born to ways other than normal ways are somehow aren't human.

You seem good at turning what people have said onto it's head.

Those who hate others have their own demons and continue to hate no matter what is said.

It is understandable that trans want to change their bodies and fit into society and feel at home in their bodies but that comes from social pressures and if most people were accepting of others there would be less people wanting to transition imo.

So now we have a money making industry that caters to all of this social pressure even when it can harm people who are not really trans and can even harm those who are.

The best way forward is to keep the transitioning but for it to be a last resort and to work on society to change and on those who want to transition to accept themselves as they are, no matter what society thinks.

It reminds me of the message in this song.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't believe so. I've researched them pretty thoroughly.

Like that 10% of people being child molesters?

Couldn't resist.

 

[metis]

Where are all the pro-Catholics, exactly?

Here. [raises hand]

Like probably most organizations, the Church is a "big tent". Has there been evil done by some members of the Church? Of course. Has there been good done by some in the Church? Of course. Do I make excuses for the bad? Nope. Do I believe and follow every teaching in the Church? Nope, and we are not required to do so.

 

[Brian2]

Tanzanian Children’s Fund
Doctors without Borders
American Red Cross
Charity Beyond Belief.
The Satanic Temple (think before you speak here. because you are wrong)
Engineers Without Borders
UNICEF

Most charities it seems have been started through Christians and religious groups and this includes hospitals and places of education which ended up being universities. Even those organisations which are specifically atheist or humanitarian have their roots in the same ideas and feelings that came from the people in the religions who began the first of these organisations. If you look back in history you may even see that those who began organisations which are described as humanitarian these days, were religious folk. (eg Henry Durant was a Christian who began the Red Cross and Red Crescent)
Helping the poor and homeless and strangers is a big concern in the Bible in the OT and also the NT.
Here is an article to read on the subject if you are interested.

https://www.nacsw.org/Convention/PlacidoNAHistoryFINAL.pdf

Bart Ehrman also seems to have come to the same conclusion but I have not read all of what he has to say.

Did Christians Invent Charity? | The Bart Ehrman Blog

I have now decided (I think) that my next book will be about how Christianity revolutionized the world in a way that most of us would agree is particularly good, even though most do not realize it was a specifically Christian accomplishment. It has to do with wealth and giving…

ehrmanblog.org

 

[metis]

There is a large Catholic minority in the US though, and they're one of the largest churchgoing denominations here in the UK. I think the issue is that many of them tend to stick to Catholic fora. In my attempt to find a forum where Catholics and Protestants get along in oecumenical dialogue, I found there is no such place; it seems they consciously self-segregate.

My long experience is the opposite of that as I had to listen to frequent attacks on Catholicism in the fundamentalist Protestant church I grew up and eventually left in my mid-20's. We also are well represented in the interfaith council of metro Detroit.

 

[Revoltingest]

Most charities it seems have been started through Christians and religious groups and this includes hospitals and places of education which ended up being universities. Even those organisations which are specifically atheist or humanitarian have their roots in the same ideas and feelings that came from the people in the religions who began the first of these organisations. If you look back in history you may even see that those who began organisations which are described as humanitarian these days, were religious folk. (eg Henry Durant was a Christian who began the Red Cross and Red Crescent)
Helping the poor and homeless and strangers is a big concern in the Bible in the OT and also the NT.
Here is an article to read on the subject if you are interested.

https://www.nacsw.org/Convention/PlacidoNAHistoryFINAL.pdf

Bart Ehrman also seems to have come to the same conclusion but I have not read all of what he has to say.

Did Christians Invent Charity? | The Bart Ehrman Blog

I have now decided (I think) that my next book will be about how Christianity revolutionized the world in a way that most of us would agree is particularly good, even though most do not realize it was a specifically Christian accomplishment. It has to do with wealth and giving…

ehrmanblog.org

Christians in USA have long outnumbered unbelievers.
So their involvement in charity would certainly mean
their numbers exceed ours.
In this...& the claim that we are uncharitable...they claim
moral superiority. Tis the sin of pride....& bigotry.

 

[Revoltingest]

We also are well repristinated in the interfaith council of metro Detroit.

"Repristinated", ie, restored to its original state or condition.
That state would be rampant child molestation with impunity
& enabling. Sounds most evil.

 

[metis]

You seem good at turning what people have said onto it's head.

Those who hate others have their own demons and continue to hate no matter what is said.

It is understandable to trans want to change their bodies and fit into society and feel at home in their bodies but that comes from social pressures and if most people were accepting of others there would be less people wanting to transition imo.

So now we have a money making industry that caters to all of this social pressure even when it can harm people who are not really trans and can even harm those who are.

The best way forward is to keep the transitioning but for it to be a last resort and to work on society to change and on those who want to transition to accept themselves as they are, no matter what society thinks.

It reminds me of the message in this song.

Absolutely beautiful and in different ways. As one who struggled with an inferiority complex much of my life, the message hits me loud & clear.

Thanks so much for this.

 

[Revoltingest]

So now we have a money making industry that caters to all of this social pressure even when it can harm people who are not really trans and can even harm those who are.

More bull **** anti-trans propaganda.
Everyone makes money...especially the religious
rabble who get rich by cadging for donations to
fight the rights of trans, gays, & others.
My hand surgeon makes money fixing damaged
digits. You'd say that this makes it immoral?
**** that lame anti-trans crap.

 

[Kathryn]

Like that 10% of people being child molesters?

Couldn't resist.

I know - it's your nature. Oh well. You never did provide any recent links by the way.

 

[Brian2]

Christians in USA have long outnumbered unbelievers.
So their involvement in charity would certainly mean
their numbers exceed ours.
In this...& the claim that we are uncharitable...they claim
moral superiority. Tis the sin of pride....& bigotry.

Yes no doubt many people are proud and bigoted................ and some are Christians.

 

[Revoltingest]

I know - it's your nature. Oh well. You never did provide any recent links by the way.

True.
But I made no claim requiring such
support.
I did peruse the internet, & didn't
find anything addressing the Church's
progress in reducing molestation.

 

[Brian2]

More bull **** anti-trans propaganda.
Everyone makes money...especially the religious
rabble who get rich by cadging for donations to
fight the rights of trans, gays, & others.
My hand surgeon makes money fixing damaged
digits. You'd say that this makes it immoral?
**** that lame anti-trans crap.

It's a supply and demand thing. More demand for hormones and surgery and so there are always going to be those who take advantage without proper care for the total wellbeing of the patient.
Allowing this to happen without proper regulations is anti trans.

 

[Kathryn]

True.
But I made no claim requiring such
support.
I did peruse the internet, & didn't
find anything addressing the Church's
progress in reducing molestation.

What? It's all over the internet but whatevs. Here. I'll help you out.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/01/world/pope-francis-catholic-church-law-intl/index.html

The Catholic Church sex abuse crisis: 4 essential reads

A French report on the scale of sexual abuse by Catholic clergy is the latest revelation in the crisis, but its roots go back decades – or more. Here are a few of our many related articles.

theconversation.com

https://www.abchttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pope-revises-church-law-updates-rules-sexual-abuse-n1269207.net.au/news/2021-06-02/pope-francis-church-law-priests-sexual-abuse-adults/100183472
These are just a few of many articles.

 

[ppp]

Many people oppose the uses that science is put to and much of the time it is because those people want what is best for people.
Eg. nuclear weapons, fracking the earth for gas, poisoning the world with insecticides and herbicides etc etc.
These things are real science. Gender fluidity is theoretical only.

I think that you are parroting bits and pieces of what you have heard from pundits and pulpit and that you do not know what most of the terms that you are using really mean.

 

[Heyo]

Is that why a priest from my former diocese is serving a life sentence for sexual assault of a minor? I mean, he should be. (It was a 14 year old girl, not a boy, for the record.) Anyway, he was defrocked so I guess technically he is no longer a priest. I dunno, call me crazy but I think he should have been and should have also had the book thrown at him (which was). I already posted the link so I won't do so again.

I've seen and recognized your link only after my last post. And while I applaud that single case and some of the efforts the RCC has taken to deal with the problem, there is still the mindset in part of the Curia that the church should be outside the law or at least have vast privileges. Not all dioceses work together well with secular law enforcement, and some have refused to do so in cases of past sexual assault.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's a supply and demand thing. More demand for hormones and surgery and so there are always going to be those who take advantage without proper care for the total wellbeing of the patient.
Allowing this to happen without proper regulations is anti trans.

Straw man.
No one is arguing against regulation.
However the Pope is arguing against
it even occurring.