UU: too Political?

[EverChanging]

Some people think Unitarian Universalism is too political. I can see where they are coming from to an extent, yet I think our commitment to social justice requires some level of involvement in politics.

But how about the UUAs tendencies to lean toward the left? Is this good or bad or a mixed blessing? Are there any traditionally conservative UUs among these forums who ever feel marginalized by some of the political tendencies of the UUA? Or anyone for that matter?

 

[Storm]

I don't see a problem with it. Of course, if I did, I probably wouldn't be UU....

Anyway, I think it's important to have an active and vocal Religious Left.

 

[uu_sage]

Churches and other religious bodies can speak on issues of the day but they cannot oppose or endorse candidates from the pulpit. The church stands in the prophetic tradition of helping the oppressed, downtrodden and excluded. It can be said the church is political but not partisan. Sadly, modern Unitarian Universalism in it's pursuit of social justice is devoid of a religious voice. Too often many churches bear witness to their stances by citing political or secular reasons for their support often making the impression on behalf of libertarians, classical conservatives and many liberals and moderates that the stances made in the UUA's name are partisan. As a Christian Universalist, my social justice witness is strengthened by my Christian faith. As I believe that ALL SOULS, Christian or not, will be reconciled to God and are all the children of God, that I am my sisters and brothers keeper and will do everything I can to ensure their well being. I believe that we co-creators with God in transforming the human race into the human family and bringing the kingdom of God in our midst- the reign of justice, inclusion, liberation, healing, mercy, compassion and love. It reflects the spirit of Micah, Isaiah, Jesus and the rest of the prophets. I myself, being very liberal and a member of the Green Party agree with the stances, however, we need to frame our stances in light of our rich Universalist and Unitarian tradition.

 

[EverChanging]

Anyway, I think it's important to have an active and vocal Religious Left.

Liberal in the religious sense, political sense, or both?

Too often many churches bear witness to their stances by citing political or secular reasons for their support often making the impression on behalf of libertarians, classical conservatives and many liberals and moderates that the stances made in the UUA's name are partisan.

I don't see the problem with citing secular or non-religious reasons for agreeing with a particular position or moral stance. People all too often make the mistake of basing their positions on religious tradition. While some religious tradition can be valuable and affirmative, it often is not -- for instance, when tradition excludes homosexuals or women from ministry, defining a woman's role as subject to a man, etc.

I don't see anything wrong with using religious language and religious tradition to affirm progressive values. On that note, many people use art to express their feelings about political and moral issues and do so quite powerfully -- using religious imagery and tradition to do the same strikes me as similar because both ways of articulating the moral stance can be a powerful way to communicate.

However, I feel like non-religious arguments for certain political and moral views is necessary to support the values, however they are articulated or communicated. If we don't truly think about what we're saying or hearing intelligently, aren't we just reacting to powerful messages? Because a message can be very powerfully expressed artistically or in traditional language and still be very harmful.

Furthermore, with a Constitutional separation of church and state in America (not always followed, but it is the law), it is necessary to communicate our positions in a reasonable, secular fashion without simply appealing to religious tradition. Certainly our religious tradition can enhance and guide our message, but in the end, its appeal to a secular government must transcend whatever religious tradition we are rooted in. We must not demand certain governmental policies because our religious tradition says that is what should be, but because we are able to demonstrate the validity of the position in the first place, no matter what tradition it is or is not rooted in.

 

[Storm]

Liberal in the religious sense, political sense, or both?

Both.

 

[EverChanging]

How do you think UUs should respond to those who feel marginalized for having some conservative political views or belong to the Republican or Libertarian party?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

How do you think UUs should respond to those who feel marginalized for having some conservative political views or belong to the Republican or Libertarian party?

While there does seem to be a majority of Liberal political views in the UU Church, there also seems to be a sprinkling of conservatives and even more Libertarians. In fact, a lot of those who appear liberal often turn out to be more libertarian. I don't know of anyone feeling marginalized due to their political leanings though it does lead to some heated conversations and debates, especially during social events that include alcohol.

 

[bicker]

I'm socially liberal, but fiscally conservative, and I'm UU.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I'm socially liberal, but fiscally conservative, and I'm UU.

I hear that direct quote a lot, and not just when I say it.

 

[applewuud]

How do you think UUs should respond to those who feel marginalized for having some conservative political views or belong to the Republican or Libertarian party?

They should apologize and try to make the community more inclusive. It's too easy to be a liberal club where everyone has the same viewpoint and slide into a sloppy mutual agreement society where ideas aren't held up to scrutiny.

Notably, I know a number of UUs who are against abortion for theological reasons but are hesitant to say so at their church because they've been assaulted as being repressive or anti-feminist when they expressed their ideas.

 

[EverChanging]

I'm socially liberal, but fiscally conservative, and I'm UU.

It's kind of hard not to be socially liberal and UU, seeing as were so concerned with LGBT rights, etc.

Notably, I know a number of UUs who are against abortion for theological reasons but are hesitant to say so at their church because they've been assaulted as being repressive or anti-feminist when they expressed their ideas.

That is regrettable. I am pro-choice, and I would argue that because of separation of church and state, theological reasons are not a good form of debate when it comes to politics (although there are secular arguments against abortion, too). But I understand that abortion is an emotional issue, and I can understand why some people are very uncomfortable with the idea, even otherwise liberal people.

 

[bicker]

Being against UUs living in accordance with their own beliefs and values is contrary to the UU principles. (To the extent folks feel that as a result the UU principles are inconsistent, then that feeling might be foundation for not being UU.)

As such, while it makes sense to be "against abortion" personally, working to impose that theological perspective on others is contrary to UU principles. So I think it is necessary to draw a distinction between saying, "I won't have an abortion," and saying, "I want to make it impracticable for other people to have an abortion." If folks are saying the former, and getting flack from their fellow church members, then that's a problem IMHO. If folks are saying the latter, then I am not surprised that they're getting flack from their fellow church members, for the reason alluded to above.

 

[bicker]

I do see the parallel between fighting for people to live in accordance with their own beliefs and values and social liberalism, however, LGBT is only a portion of those for whom such concern has been afforded over the years.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think a demographic/socio-economic analysis of UU membership would be interesting. Is anyone aware of such information?

 

[EverChanging]

I do see the parallel between fighting for people to live in accordance with their own beliefs and values and social liberalism, however, LGBT is only a portion of those for whom such concern has been afforded over the years.

I agree totally, which is why I said "etc." UUs have been wonderful about taking up for other "minorities" as well (such as women -- still considered a minority, though not numerically), heretics, non-Christians, racial minorities, and others. I think it is now time for us to consider the way we treat non-human animals, especially those we use for food. Eventually, I will become a vegetarian. I don't think vegetarianism is necessarily a choice everyone should make, but I think it's something I would like to do. But we all must think about how the animals we eat are treated, especially in light of the fact that humans are animals, and so are our evolutionary ancestors. We can no longer pretend that humans are the only beings that suffer, the only beings that can love, or the only beings who ever act heroically because of moral impulses -- indeed, non-human animals have saved human lives.

I think it would also be a good idea to take up for children, too, who are often helpless victims of very harsh parenting styles and abuse. When I was growing up, I remember being told that adults had the right to "say and do anything" they wanted to me, and I had no right to object, or to even write about my own thoughts in a journal that I kept to keep from going crazy. I was not even free to have my own thoughts or feelings and often accused of demon-possession and other insane ideas. I was also told that while I had to respect adults, adults were not obligated to care about my feelings or interests at all. When I went to a school counselor about these problems, all blame was placed on me and the harsh actions of the adults in my life were glossed over. The counselor was trying to be neutral, she said, yet I noticed that because I was the minor, the adult was always defended, and several times it was suggested that I must have been defiant or otherwise not compliant, which was not the case. I always did as I was told and tried not to make anyone angry. I spent a lot of time in my room trying not to **** anyone off. I don't know how common this is, but to me it seems a violation of the child's own dignity and wellbeing. To me, treating adolescents or children this way is just as inhumane as racism or sexism. (Anyway, I'm rambling.)

UU'ism is humanistic in that it affirms the inherent dignity and worth of every person, minority or not, child or not.

Perhaps I should have created another thread LOL I'll do that soon.

 

[blackout]

I hope you don't mind my jumping into your directory thread.

My son (age 10) came to me again just today regarding people
(kids at school, and parents of kids at school)
asking him why he doesn't go to church.
*sigh*
Anyway, when he brought this issue up last year
I said to him maybe he and I could try the local UU.
Unfortunately since then, the fellowship group
has become an actual church ,
but I guess to satisfy his need to "check out church"
I would be willing to give it a try.

Besides my aversion to church buildings and church services,
I have two other ... worries.
Firstly can LHP be reconciled with UU principles,
(which I really don't know)
and
Secondly ... I am completely "a"political.
In other words, I am not political.
I don't follow politics at all anymore,
and I RARELY ever vote --
but for an occasional and notable instance here and there.
(for reasons I won't bother with here).

If meetings are constantly about effecting change through voting,
I WILL lose my mind.... and I will not fit in at all.

Sharing about people's personal spiritual empowerment however,
interests me a GREAT deal.
If I go to a church at all, I want it to be about ...
the esoteric, the transcendental, personal empowerment, deeper philosophy.
Not politics.

What are your thoughts?
Do you think I could find a "way" in UU?
I really want to try, especially so my son can either decide he wants to go, or not.

There is no other church I can think of that either one of us might possibly
be able to ... be ourselves... and get something out of.
We are not christian... or anything else in particular.
I myself am more LHP than anything else.

He actually would like to know what various religions are all about.
If this is the focus... it might just work for him.

 

[EverChanging]

What is LHP? I am not familiar with the term.

My experience with UU congregations is limited -- I've only been to one, and it was a rather small fellowship. Some of the services were so secular I couldn't tell you what exactly was religious about it. Others were just meetings, like to see the documentary Religulous, and some included a lay sermon (more like a lecture on the topic of interest, such as experiences in and teachings of Mormonism or Susan B. Anthony), music, hymns, and afterwards, refreshments and discussion. The service I most enjoyed was the Flower Communion when we had an Earth Mass -- the most spiritual one I attended.

From what I've read and heard other UUs say, some congregations are more political than others. I didn't hear too much about politics in the fellowship, though there were several pamphlets arguing for separation of church and state and against official school prayer, but that doesn't bother me because I completely agree. I don't know about you.

Some congregations are more spiritual than others, so you might feel more comfortable in one and not another. If the congregation is large and has several interest groups and activities, you can just check out what activities you're interested in and participate in those without having to become a member of participate in the main church services. You might be interested in a neo-pagan group if there is one, for instance.

Maybe others can tell you more -- like I said, my experience is very limited.

 

[blackout]

Thank you so much EverChanging for your reply.

LHP stands for Left Hand Path.
The LHP includes Setianism, Satanism, Chaos Magick, Discordianism
(and others) which you might recognize.

LHP religions are more about the Individual "BEcoming"...
coming into being... realizing his/her own godhood...
forging his/her own personal path.

I need to read the UU principles again.

 

[EverChanging]

The aspects you describe don't conflict with UUism in my opinion -- it sounds similar to what some New Agers believe, and there is some New Age interest in UUism. (Not that I'm calling your path New Age -- just noticing some superficial similarities from what little you described.)

There should not be a problem if you can affirm and promote these principles:

There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Unitarian Universalism (UU) draws from many sources:

• Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
• Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
• Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
• Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
• Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit.
• Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.

UUA: Our Principles
But like I said, even if you are uncomfortable with the covenant/principles, you don't have to become a member. You can just participate in the groups or activities that interest you as you please.

 

[bicker]

I think it is now time for us to consider the way we treat non-human animals, especially those we use for food.

My wife and I recently came to a similar conclusion. While I don't think it is an absolute equivalence (humans first; then other animals), I do recognize that there is a moral inadequacy in the manner in which our society uses -- really abuses -- other animals for food and clothing, and to some extent needlessly (or at least with substantially less "need" than most people, and our society, in general, assert).

Eventually, I will become a vegetarian.

More than five months now, for my wife and I.

I think it would also be a good idea to take up for children, too, who are often helpless victims of very harsh parenting styles and abuse.

There has been a gross injustice committed, perhaps since the beginning of civilization, with regard to the assertion (and society deference to the assertion) of what is veritably ownership of children by their parents. In our church, the point is made very clearly that being a parent is a responsibility, not a right. Parental "rights" essentially are the rights of the children to be fostered by the people who love them most, and who will care for them the best. Parents should have an easy time demonstrating that they qualify as those "people".

I was also told that while I had to respect adults, adults were not obligated to care about my feelings or interests at all.

Coincidentally, the last few episodes of Mad Men (a television series on AMC) have highlighted just how much disrespect for children our society sanctioned in the 1960s. I remember the exact sentiment that the television series depicted, and it was indeed despicable. No wonder so many of those children grew up to be the kind of people they grew up to be.