Utterly Lost

[pearl]

I can say that I truly believe that there is a God who is one. And beyond that, I am just so uncertain on everything. Anyone else been here? Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciate.

Beyond that I think we have to acknowledge mystery, that what or who we have named God, is incomprehensible Mystery.

I understand your quest, but if you are looking for the perfect religion, it does not exist, they are all man made, with human limitations. But its important to reject a religion for the right reasons. I would use caution when searching sites to make sure what you're getting is an official overview of that religion. No matter what the affiliation, it is the communion, the community that is the church, not the leadership.
Just a quick note on apostolic succession what succeeds is the body of apostolic teaching, not an individualistic mechanical succession of an individual to his predecessor.

 

[Henry :)]

I'm nominally a Roman Catholic but I'm just increasingly don't believe in many of the fundamentals of my faith. This started really with all the controversy over Amoris Laetitia. I don't want to go into that in detail because its a whole complex can of worms in itself, but the short version is I just can not believe that it is possible for the Pope or any man to be in any sense infallible or inerrant. I do not believe the office of the Papacy has any real significance and I do not believe in any sense that bishops or other church leaders benefit from some sort of apostolic succession.

But this goes a lot further. I've entered into a sort of spiral of doubt where I really do not know what I do believe. I don't know what is true any more.

I can say that I truly believe that there is a God who is one. And beyond that, I am just so uncertain on everything. Anyone else been here? Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciate.

Hey Peter!
I hope you're having a good day.

I really admire your ability to ask questions of your own beliefs openly and honestly! Doubt is a wonderful tool which can liberate us from the beliefs we hold without sufficient justification. It can, however, make us feel unstable and lost at times (especially when something central to our worldview is shown to not necessarily be the case, but you evidently know this)! I would urge you to continue in the same vain because you will end up believing more true things and fewer false things as a result! (Yay!)
I'd like to delve a little further if that's okay, what do you mean when you say that you "believe that there is a God who is one'? I don't really understand what you mean by the "who is one" bit.

Henry

 

[peter22]

Hey Peter!
I hope you're having a good day.

I really admire your ability to ask questions of your own beliefs openly and honestly! Doubt is a wonderful tool which can liberate us from the beliefs we hold without sufficient justification. It can, however, make us feel unstable and lost at times (especially when something central to our worldview is shown to not necessarily be the case, but you evidently know this)! I would urge you to continue in the same vain because you will end up believing more true things and fewer false things as a result! (Yay!)
I'd like to delve a little further if that's okay, what do you mean when you say that you "believe that there is a God who is one'? I don't really understand what you mean by the "who is one" bit.

Henry

Hi Henry, thanks for your response. I'm starting to research and investigate different belief systems as open-mindedly as I can.

When I say believe in a God who is one, I mean I am a convinced monotheist. That is about the one thing I can hold on to as much as I can anything.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm nominally a Roman Catholic but I'm just increasingly don't believe in many of the fundamentals of my faith. This started really with all the controversy over Amoris Laetitia. I don't want to go into that in detail because its a whole complex can of worms in itself, but the short version is I just can not believe that it is possible for the Pope or any man to be in any sense infallible or inerrant. I do not believe the office of the Papacy has any real significance and I do not believe in any sense that bishops or other church leaders benefit from some sort of apostolic succession.

But this goes a lot further. I've entered into a sort of spiral of doubt where I really do not know what I do believe. I don't know what is true any more.

I can say that I truly believe that there is a God who is one. And beyond that, I am just so uncertain on everything. Anyone else been here? Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciate.

Looks like your seeking for something that actually works. Hard to do.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So I found a "which religion are you" quiz to try to get some clarity. I've tried a few of these and the results have been slightly different but this is the latest one which just shows how scatterbrained by beliefs are from the range of different belief systems represented. These are the ones I had 70%+ agreement with. Make of this what you will since I certainly don't know what to make of it.

1. Islam (100%)

2. Mainline - Conservative Christian Protestant (97%)

3. Orthodox Judaism (93%)

4. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (86%)

5. Seventh Day Adventist (83%)

6. Bahai (80%)

7. Orthodox Quaker - Religious Society of Friends (77%)

8. Jainism (73%)

9. Jehovahs Witness (72%)

10. Eastern Orthodox (72%)

11. Roman Catholic (72%)

12. Hinduism (70%)

Have you considered Islam? Maybe you should look into it, given your test results.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I'm nominally a Roman Catholic but I'm just increasingly don't believe in many of the fundamentals of my faith. This started really with all the controversy over Amoris Laetitia. I don't want to go into that in detail because its a whole complex can of worms in itself, but the short version is I just can not believe that it is possible for the Pope or any man to be in any sense infallible or inerrant. I do not believe the office of the Papacy has any real significance and I do not believe in any sense that bishops or other church leaders benefit from some sort of apostolic succession.

But this goes a lot further. I've entered into a sort of spiral of doubt where I really do not know what I do believe. I don't know what is true any more.

I can say that I truly believe that there is a God who is one. And beyond that, I am just so uncertain on everything. Anyone else been here? Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciate.

Do you feel a personal connection with God? I'd say there is some reason for your doubt, and he is the one to guide you past it, which may well be back to Catholicism or something else

 

[Raahim]

I'm nominally a Roman Catholic but I'm just increasingly don't believe in many of the fundamentals of my faith. This started really with all the controversy over Amoris Laetitia. I don't want to go into that in detail because its a whole complex can of worms in itself, but the short version is I just can not believe that it is possible for the Pope or any man to be in any sense infallible or inerrant. I do not believe the office of the Papacy has any real significance and I do not believe in any sense that bishops or other church leaders benefit from some sort of apostolic succession.

But this goes a lot further. I've entered into a sort of spiral of doubt where I really do not know what I do believe. I don't know what is true any more.

I can say that I truly believe that there is a God who is one. And beyond that, I am just so uncertain on everything. Anyone else been here? Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciate.

You could always go your own way - live by the morals your heart says are right and pray your own way. At least until you find some frame you feel comfortable with.

All the best

 

[whirlingmerc]

Sorry to hear your frustration.

Jesus invites the apostles who asked where He lived to 'come and see' and spent time with him. Spend some time and see if you can 'taste and see the Lord is good' Psalm 34:8

The Psalms are the most quoted book by the New Testament from the Old... spend some time in Psalms

 

[peter22]

Have you considered Islam? Maybe you should look into it, given your test results.

I'm trying to be open minded right now but I can't really see it. I've done a few of these tests and Islam has come up top twice, Conservative Protestant a few times, and Orthodox Judaism is always pretty near the top, some I'm taking these as a rough indicator at most.

Do you feel a personal connection with God? I'd say there is some reason for your doubt, and he is the one to guide you past it, which may well be back to Catholicism or something else.

Sometimes I do. But I'm finding it very hard to pray at the moment. If there is a purpose for my doubt I hope God will use it to lead me to something.

You could always go your own way - live by the morals your heart says are right and pray your own way. At least until you find some frame you feel comfortable with.

A good plan for the short term perhaps yes. I'd eventually like to find a new faith community of some description.

Sorry to hear your frustration.

Jesus invites the apostles who asked where He lived to 'come and see' and spent time with him. Spend some time and see if you can 'taste and see the Lord is good' Psalm 34:8

The Psalms are the most quoted book by the New Testament from the Old... spend some time in Psalms

Very good advice, there is a lot of wisdom in the Psalms it is true.

Many thanks to everyone who has responded for your input.

 

[InChrist]

I'm nominally a Roman Catholic but I'm just increasingly don't believe in many of the fundamentals of my faith. This started really with all the controversy over Amoris Laetitia. I don't want to go into that in detail because its a whole complex can of worms in itself, but the short version is I just can not believe that it is possible for the Pope or any man to be in any sense infallible or inerrant. I do not believe the office of the Papacy has any real significance and I do not believe in any sense that bishops or other church leaders benefit from some sort of apostolic succession.

But this goes a lot further. I've entered into a sort of spiral of doubt where I really do not know what I do believe. I don't know what is true any more.

I can say that I truly believe that there is a God who is one. And beyond that, I am just so uncertain on everything. Anyone else been here? Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciate.

I was raised Roman Catholic. I also came to the conclusion that the Pope was not infallible, the papacy had no significance or that the bishops and church leaders had no benefit of apostolic succession when I came to really know and trust Jesus Christ.

 

[ShivaFan]

A great work of art cannot be great without capturing both the infallible and the fallible. In fact, the object of your love - speaking from the point of view of a "man" - when seeing something in a "girl" is seeing the fallible in her that attracts the male to think she is also infallible - that "flower" is both easily picked and petals plucked yet so "perfect" it is infallible in it's "message".

Sure - in one way it is also delusional.

But it is that crazy thing that makes it "pop" and every sort of fireworks is in one way crazy, but makes everyone look to the sky to see the light show.

But, it is true, the pope is not infallible. If the pope was, then what would be the use of the pope? That attractiveness would be gone. The pope would just be a piece of glass.

Anyway, I am not a Catholic, but I am allowed to have an opinion on the matter?

If so, my opinion is the pope isn't the real "head of the Catholic Church".

The real "head" - and has been for a long time - of the CATHOLIC Church ~ and what makes the Catholuc in the Church ~ is Mary.

Whoever that Goddess is. Whoever that Mary is who appears from time to time above some church steeple in Egypt, or before some children in France. And all over the place. Yeah... that is just my observation, but Imho she is the actual "head". Not the pope.

The amazing thing is, this Mary, who IMHO is the actual "President" of the Catholic church, this Lady whoever she is, she also has the spirit of being fallible - like a flower - yet also because of these very attractive "tears" this Mary projects the artistic infallible conclusion. That, if you see her - you want to keep looking at her. The "conclusion". One thing for sure, you ain't going to be distracted by anything else while that "Lady in White" is electric right before your eyes even if she might be floating 3 feet above the roof. You'll be giving her that long stare - you won't look away until "Mary has left the stage". Nothing will stop your stare.

Yeah. She's the real Pope. But that's just me saying what I think.

 

[VioletVortex]

As someone who was detached from a prior way of thinking (atheism in my case) by Satanism, if you don't feel at home with Christianity anymore, I'd strongly suggest that you do some research on Satanism. I'm not telling you to "convert to Satanism", but I'm just suggesting that you do some research, look into the moral values and ideals. LaVeyan Satanism isn't the ultimate form of the religion, but that's probably a good starting place since it is atheistic and relatively tame, as long as you don't go into it with any preconcieved notions about the name "Satan", which predated Christianity to begin with.

Satanism is basically a process of leaving one's indoctrinal faith and finding a new one, or in many cases, remaining a Satanist, depending on what suits you.

Just wait it out while doing some research, see where that takes you.

 

[Henry :)]

Hi Henry, thanks for your response. I'm starting to research and investigate different belief systems as open-mindedly as I can.

When I say believe in a God who is one, I mean I am a convinced monotheist. That is about the one thing I can hold on to as much as I can anything.

Thanks for replying Peter. I really enjoy these discussions. Do you mind discussing this further...?

What would you say is the main reason you hold your belief in God? If we had a scale for that belief from 0-100 where 100 was "I definitely believe in God with no doubt" and 0 was "I really don't know about this god thing at all!" where would you put yourself on that scale?

Really look forward to your reply!
Henry

 

[peter22]

Thanks for replying Peter. I really enjoy these discussions. Do you mind discussing this further...?

What would you say is the main reason you hold your belief in God? If we had a scale for that belief from 0-100 where 100 was "I definitely believe in God with no doubt" and 0 was "I really don't know about this god thing at all!" where would you put yourself on that scale?

Really look forward to your reply!
Henry

I have a lot of doubts about the nature of God. But I am 95% sure of the existence of a God even if I'm less sure on the details. I could come up with a lot of reasons for my belief in God, but my top 2 would probably be

1. I believe that the universe and all the complex forms of life in it could not have existed without some force behind its creation in some way or another.
2. Human beings have believed in some form of deity or deities for thousands of years and it just seems implausible that all of those people could have been wrong about the basic concept of a greater power.

 

[peter22]

The real "head" - and has been for a long time - of the CATHOLIC Church ~ and what makes the Catholuc in the Church ~ is Mary...

Yeah. She's the real Pope. But that's just me saying what I think.

Yeah I hear you. Many Catholics have a stronger devotion to Mary than to God.

I was raised Roman Catholic. I also came to the conclusion that the Pope was not infallible, the papacy had no significance or that the bishops and church leaders had no benefit of apostolic succession when I came to really know and trust Jesus Christ.

I'm not suprised to hear that. All that stuff just seems to get between us and God somehow. May I ask what church you go to now?

 

[Henry :)]

I have a lot of doubts about the nature of God. But I am 95% sure of the existence of a God even if I'm less sure on the details. I could come up with a lot of reasons for my belief in God, but my top 2 would probably be

1. I believe that the universe and all the complex forms of life in it could not have existed without some force behind its creation in some way or another.
2. Human beings have believed in some form of deity or deities for thousands of years and it just seems implausible that all of those people could have been wrong about the basic concept of a greater power.

Hi Peter, sorry I took a while to reply, I didn't get an email update for your post!

1. What reason do you have to believe that this "force" is a god?
2. Correct me if I'm wrong here, it sounds like you're saying; if something is believed by lots of people for a long period of time, that makes it true or likely true? Can you think of any examples of things which have been believed by people for hundreds or thousands of years that have been later discovered to be not true?

Henry

 

[peter22]

Hi Peter, sorry I took a while to reply, I didn't get an email update for your post!

1. What reason do you have to believe that this "force" is a god?
2. Correct me if I'm wrong here, it sounds like you're saying; if something is believed by lots of people for a long period of time, that makes it true or likely true? Can you think of any examples of things which have been believed by people for hundreds or thousands of years that have been later discovered to be not true?

Henry

Hello again Henry, nice to hear from you.

1. I do believe that the complexities in the universe and that would have been involved therefore in its creation require the presence of some intelligent force behind it all. I simply can not accept as likely the creation of the universe by random chance. If there is a creator that in any way caused the creation of the universe, it is logical to think of this creator, whatever form it takes, as god.
2. I am not saying that widespread belief in an idea as of itself makes it true no. However, essentially every civilisation across the world for thousands of years have followed a religion of some sort. This lends a certain amount of weight to the existence of some form of god, even if it is not conclusive on the point.

 

[Henry :)]

Hello again Henry, nice to hear from you.

1. I do believe that the complexities in the universe and that would have been involved therefore in its creation require the presence of some intelligent force behind it all. I simply can not accept as likely the creation of the universe by random chance. If there is a creator that in any way caused the creation of the universe, it is logical to think of this creator, whatever form it takes, as god.
2. I am not saying that widespread belief in an idea as of itself makes it true no. However, essentially every civilisation across the world for thousands of years have followed a religion of some sort. This lends a certain amount of weight to the existence of some form of god, even if it is not conclusive on the point.

Hello again Peter!

Imagine we are living in medieval England in a village dealing with some sort of horrible disease that's making lots of people sick.

1. As we don't yet have any understanding of germs and how they make us ill, would it now be reasonable to conclude that the sickness is caused by demons/ a witch's curse/ punishment from a god/ etc.?

2. How would your answer to question 1 change if 90% of the village population believed the sickness was caused by a local witch who had cursed the village after a recent dispute?

Henry

 

[peter22]

Hello again Peter!

Imagine we are living in medieval England in a village dealing with some sort of horrible disease that's making lots of people sick.

1. As we don't yet have any understanding of germs and how they make us ill, would it now be reasonable to conclude that the sickness is caused by demons/ a witch's curse/ punishment from a god/ etc.?

2. How would your answer to question 1 change if 90% of the village population believed the sickness was caused by a local witch who had cursed the village after a recent dispute?

Henry

Hello Henry. Hope you are well this fine day.

1. With the knowledge available to the medieval mind, it may be reasonable to conclude one of these causes as many people did. Nor frankly are any of those possibilities to be discounted. If one accepts the existence of a spiritual realm, it is sensible to believe that it can in various ways interact with our own to our benefit or detriment in many different ways. That is probably not the answer you expected, but I do believe in the possible existence of both witchcraft and demons, and that God may punish people for their behavior. Germs and viruses and bacteria are of course created by God.
2. If the witch cursed the village, they may have reason to believe she was the cause of the illness. This may or may not be the case. But there must be a reason that many religions forbid witchcraft and sorcery.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I'm nominally a Roman Catholic but I'm just increasingly don't believe in many of the fundamentals of my faith. This started really with all the controversy over Amoris Laetitia. I don't want to go into that in detail because its a whole complex can of worms in itself, but the short version is I just can not believe that it is possible for the Pope or any man to be in any sense infallible or inerrant. I do not believe the office of the Papacy has any real significance and I do not believe in any sense that bishops or other church leaders benefit from some sort of apostolic succession.

But this goes a lot further. I've entered into a sort of spiral of doubt where I really do not know what I do believe. I don't know what is true any more.

I can say that I truly believe that there is a God who is one. And beyond that, I am just so uncertain on everything. Anyone else been here? Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciate.

When I disavowed my Christianity, it was very traumatic, but I eventually came to understand that my trauma was only due to my indoctrinative conditioning. But I didn't overreact and become an angry atheist. I don't believe in God, because there's a complete absence of evidence for (or against) God, but I hope that there is. And if there is a God, It would have created the universe for one reason only, to serve as a stage for fully self-aware beings to exercise their moral free will. GOD COULD HAVE DONE ANYTHING ELSE INSTANTLY. Free will requires that we can never know, in this life, that there is a God. And for God to make it appear that there is no God, would be a lie.

So here we are. We need to find the courage to live with the doubt--and the knowledge that since God can't reveal Itself, It must never interact with us. If that seems cruel, consider that every time God doesn't interact, it's a monument to It's commitment to our vital, cause for creation, free will. And remember, this is but a blink.

For me, Truth and God are equivalent, where the worship of God is the pursuit of Truth via knowledge, justice, love and beauty. And you aren't lost, just traumatized.