Unscientific, Secularist Cosmology: Everything from Nothing! Not!

[idav]

go back to op ....and read

If I thought it was there I wouldn't have asked for it.

I don't believe in this nothing you imply is the best answer we have.

Only substance in a certain configuration can make anything happen. This is a logical form of substance first, spirit second.

What makes you say consciousness first? Everything needing a mover is not logically sound cause then that mover also needs a mover. So any logical answer you have without invoking eternal regression issues will suffice.

The whole "spirit first" thing is like saying god not existing is the only way to make existence. As soon as you say "spirt first" that is god existing in some form or another.

 

[dust1n]

The laws of physics tell us: Matter cannot be created (nor can it create itself).

In quantum physics, a quantum fluctuation (or quantum vacuum fluctuation or vacuum fluctuation) is the temporary change in the amount of energy in a point in space,[1] as explained in Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle...

This allows the creation of particle-antiparticle pairs of virtual particles. The effects of these particles are measurable, for example, in the effective charge of the electron, different from its "naked" charge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation

 

[Thief]

If I thought it was there I wouldn't have asked for it.

I don't believe in this nothing you imply is the best answer we have.

Only substance in a certain configuration can make anything happen. This is a logical form of substance first, spirit second.

What makes you say consciousness first? Everything needing a mover is not logically sound cause then that mover also needs a mover. So any logical answer you have without invoking eternal regression issues will suffice.

The whole "spirit first" thing is like saying god not existing is the only way to make existence. As soon as you say "spirt first" that is god existing in some form or another.

substance does not move of it's own volition

Spirit is not substance
God first....then the creation

substance did not create God

 

[Thief]

In quantum physics, a quantum fluctuation (or quantum vacuum fluctuation or vacuum fluctuation) is the temporary change in the amount of energy in a point in space,[1] as explained in Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle...

This allows the creation of particle-antiparticle pairs of virtual particles. The effects of these particles are measurable, for example, in the effective charge of the electron, different from its "naked" charge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation

this item you refer to....
it can account for the universe?

all of it?

 

[dust1n]

this item you refer to....
it can account for the universe?

all of it?

No. It's just a observable phenomenon where matter and anti-matter pairs are created in vacuums from noting at all. I.E. matter from nothing. It's hard to follow the rest of the OP because the first premise is an inaccurate one.

To account for the creation of the universe, one would have to go through different phases of the universe that lasted fractions of seconds, but in which physics as we know would be very different.


No one knows in full detail how the universe started, that's ridiculous.

 

[idav]

substance does not move of it's own volition

Proof?

Spirit is not substance

Proof?

God first....then the creation

When you use a word like creation maybe but thats an unsubstantiated premise within a claim. Its assuming anything needs to be created to exist. That obviously is not necessary by your own logic that god exists without needing a creator.

substance did not create God

God did not create itself. Obviously there is a some-thing that didn't need creating, its called existence, and existing, like god existing is predicated on it.

 

[viole]

We will notice that Jesus made no mention of educational status. This is because, whether we on the broad road running away from God or on the narrow road running to God, our education and intellect is not the key - instead, the key is our motives and....

Jesus was right to say that intellect is not the key. There is nothing more pernicious than rational thinking and intellect, for people like him.

For sure, if I had to create a new religion, I would make sure to tone down the importance of rational thinking.

Question: What is the condition of your heart? Are you prejudiced against God?

My heart? Still pumping blood.

And no, I am not predujiced against God. i simply believe He does not exist. I cannot possibly be prejudiced against the non existing.

I am not prejudiced against Mother Goose, either. For the same reasons.

Ciao

- viole

 

[psychoslice]

if it fits........

Yes, I could read just about any book and find things that fit into what I wanted it to fit, and that is what you are doing in vain.

 

[Thief]

No. It's just a observable phenomenon where matter and anti-matter pairs are created in vacuums from noting at all. I.E. matter from nothing. It's hard to follow the rest of the OP because the first premise is an inaccurate one.

To account for the creation of the universe, one would have to go through different phases of the universe that lasted fractions of seconds, but in which physics as we know would be very different.


No one knows in full detail how the universe started, that's ridiculous.

you just spoke as if someone does......

ridiculous

try adhering to what we do know.....at hand...

substance will not move of it's own volition

Spirit first

 

[Thief]

Yes, I could read just about any book and find things that fit into what I wanted it to fit, and that is what you are doing in vain.

so call me vain.....
no doubt...heaven will

 

[psychoslice]

so call me vain.....
no doubt...heaven will

Oh well, as long as your happy.

 

[Thief]

Proof?

Proof?

When you use a word like creation maybe but thats an unsubstantiated premise within a claim. Its assuming anything needs to be created to exist. That obviously is not necessary by your own logic that god exists without needing a creator.

God did not create itself. Obviously there is a some-thing that didn't need creating, its called existence, and existing, like god existing is predicated on it.

Someone had to be first

 

[idav]

Someone had to be first

Sure after billions of years of evolution.

 

[Thief]

Sure after billions of years of evolution.

that you don't believe in Spirit is not an advantage

 

[Thief]

and all of the substance of the universe had a starting point
and substance will remain at rest

Someone set things to motion

 

[idav]

that you don't believe in Spirit is not an advantage

Anthropomorphizing spirit/god is not an advantage.

 

[Thief]

Anthropomorphizing spirit/god is not an advantage.

I don't think God is human

 

[idav]

I don't think God is human

Got that from your use of "someone".

 

[McBell]

that you don't believe in Spirit is not an advantage

You have shown over the last seven years that neither does belief in spirit...

 

[psychoslice]

The whole Cosmos is self regulating, there is no someone hiding in the background pulling strings, that to me is just an unintelligent way of thinking.