Trump's Instruction to Neo-Nazis: Stand Back and Stand By,

[Cooky]

If you look at what Proud Boys's tenets, you
can see that they have a hideous agenda.
Tenets
Excerpted....
Minimal Government
Maximum Freedom
Anti-Political Correctness
Anti-Drug War
Closed Borders
Anti-Racial Guilt
Anti-Racism
Pro-Free Speech (1st Amendment)
Pro-Gun Rights (2nd Amendment)
Glorifying the Entrepreneur
Venerating the Housewife
Reinstating a Spirit of Western Chauvinism

That's considered "racist" by the radical left.

 

[Cooky]

You trust sources such as Breitbart or Fox News, correct?

You assume too much.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

That's considered "racist" by the radical left.

Trump called them out. The question put to him was about white supremacists. Why didn’t he just unambiguously condemn white supremacists?

 

[Cooky]

Do you agree with these tenets?

I do.

 

[Revoltingest]

Okay Revolt, I take it back. I won’t speculate on your response. I was only saying that so you’d understand why I was asking the question in the first place - I wanted to give you the opportunity to prove my guess wrong.

I apologize for speculating on what your answer would be.

Can I try asking the question again?

Sure.
How about my linked thread?

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you agree with these tenets?

Some, not all.
I don't gloryfy, venerate, chauvinate, or close borders.
And you?

 

[Revoltingest]

That's considered "racist" by the radical left.

Of course we know they don't really (for most goals).
But their portrayal of Proud Boys as a racist organization
is driven by partisan division. So they attack the PB,
while defending BLM & Antifa. Picking a side determines
how a group is portrayed & labeled. Diversity & nuance
are tossed out the window, eh.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Sure.
How about my linked thread?

Thanks. May I suggest we stick to this thread? To me it’s really a question about denouncing violent extremists, even though racism is also a component. Antifa for example isn’t really being criticized for being racist it’s more that they are violent extremists. Also, we’ve already started discussing it in this thread.

Happy to switch threads if you insist though.

Again my question is do you really think Biden needs to denounce Antifa since it’s “an ideology” not an organization according to the FBI Director; and even if Biden did that would you give him due credit / acknowledge the contrast with Trump’s response to the violent white supremacists question from Chris Wallace.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Of course we know they don't really (for most goals).
But their portrayal of Proud Boys as a racist organization
is driven by partisan division. So they attack the PB,
while defending BLM & Antifa. Picking a side determines
how a group is portrayed & labeled. Diversity & nuance
are tossed out the window, eh.

Can we not lose sight of the fact that Donald Trump is the one who called out the Proud Boys?

The question put to Trump by Chris Wallace was about violence by white supremacists and right wing militias. The PB seem violent to me, but if you think they aren’t racist ... okay ... at best, Trump still whiffed what should be an extremely easy question. And it was telling. Arguably his answer is just that much worse if he didn’t even address an applicable group. “I condemn violent white supremacists” is all he had to say. That’s a tall order for Trump.

 

[Revoltingest]

Happy to switch threads if you insist though.

Attend both threads....no switch.

Again my question is do you really think Biden needs to denounce Antifa since it’s “an ideology” not an organization according to the FBI Director; and even if Biden did that would you give him due credit / acknowledge the contrast with Trump’s response to the violent white supremacists question from Chris Wallace.

Antifa is an identifiable public movement involved in violence.
It should be denounced for this. To refuse on the pretext that
it's not classified (by some) as an ideology seems strange.
Both Biden & Trump have been weak on opposing violence
across the political spectrum.
If either started properly addressing all the hostility & violence,
they'd earn credit with me.

 

[Revoltingest]

Can we not lose sight of the fact that Donald Trump is the one who called out the Proud Boys?

What do you believe he said to do this?

The question put to Trump by Chris Wallace was about violence by white supremacists and right wing militias. The PB seem violent to me, but if you think they aren’t racist ... okay ... at best, Trump still whiffed what should be an extremely easy question.

I don't follow the Proud Boys in the news, so I'm not familiar
with what they've done. I looked'm up info on the internet,
& presented some info here. Anyway, I'm not into such
labeling anyway. Tis better to look at effects of their records
in office.

And it was telling. Arguably his answer is just that much worse if he didn’t even address an applicable group. “I condemn violent white supremacists” is all he had to say. That’s a tall order for Trump.

That seems to cover it, while not specifically addressing
the group he claims tno unfamiliarity with.

 

[Heyo]

Attend both threads....no switch.

Antifa is an identifiable public movement involved in violence.
It should be denounced for this. To refuse on the pretext that
it's not classified (by some) as an ideology seems strange.
Both Biden & Trump have been weak on opposing violence
across the political spectrum.

Antifa is an ideology like atheism is a religion.
They don't have a coherent political direction other than their disdain for fascism.
They also aren't an identifiable group.

If either started properly addressing all the hostility & violence,
they'd earn credit with me.

Yep, I can second that.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Attend both threads....no switch.

Antifa is an identifiable public movement involved in violence.
It should be denounced for this. To refuse on the pretext that
it's not classified (by some) as an ideology seems strange.
Both Biden & Trump have been weak on opposing violence
across the political spectrum.
If either started properly addressing all the hostility & violence,
they'd earn credit with me.

Thanks.

So just to be clear: you want Biden to condemn violence across the board no matter who it is, including Antifa ... even though Trump’s own FBI Director said Antifa is “an ideology ... not an organization”?

You want him to denounce all the rioting too even if it was a response to police brutality?

I ask just to understand your position. For the record, I fully support denouncing violence even when - and perhaps especially when - its my “side” responsible for it. So that’s part of why I’m curious to ask you these questions.

 

[Revoltingest]

Antifa is an ideology like atheism is a religion.

Not quite. Searching the internet yields things they tend to
have in common with each other...far more than atheists'
singular shared trait of non-belief in gods.
Ref...
Antifa: What is it and what does the movement want?

Antifa also acts in a group manner, & this is what makes
them identifiable. To claim they've no ideology is a non
sequitur.

They don't have a coherent political direction other than their disdain for fascism.
They also aren't an identifiable group.

It's odd to say that they aren't identifiable, yet here we
are discussing them.

 

[Revoltingest]

So just to be clear: you want Biden to condemn violence across the board no matter who it is, including Antifa ... even though Trump’s own FBI Director said Antifa is “an ideology ... not an organization”?

I don't "want" him to say anything in particular.
All this arguing over whether Antifa is an ideology or an
organization doesn't matter to me. People representing
it do what they do. I'm addressing the violence.
I criticize that, independent of whatever others call them.

You want him to denounce all the rioting too even if it was a response to police brutality?

Again, I don't "want" him to denounce anything in particular.
Just commenting on what they've said so far.

I ask just to understand your position. For the record, I fully support denouncing violence even when - and perhaps especially when - its my “side” responsible for it. So that’s part of why I’m curious to ask you these questions.

Denouncing violence is good.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I don't "want" him to say anything in particular.
All this arguing over whether Antifa is an ideology or an
organization doesn't matter to me. People representing
it do what they do. I'm addressing the violence.
I criticize that, independent of whatever others call them.

Again, I don't "want" him to denounce anything in particular.
Just commenting on what they've said so far.

Denouncing violence is good.

Yes sorry strike the word “want” from my questions and insert the appropriate word - you said in your last post “they’d earn credit from me”, so perhaps I should have stuck with that phrase? Biden would “earn credit from you” if he did those things because “denouncing violence is good”. Is that fair? I agree with this by the way, I wish both sides did.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes sorry strike the word “want” from my questions and insert the appropriate word - you said in your last post “they’d earn credit from me”, so perhaps I should have stuck with that phrase? Biden would “earn credit from you” if he did those things because “denouncing violence is good”. Is that fair? I agree with this by the way, I wish both sides did.

Finally, detente!

 

[SomeRandom]

I'd have to see it to believe it - that anyone in the world can be more passive-aggressive than we midwesterners.. but anyway, didn't mean to derail this thread here, just wanted to make a casual comment

You obviously haven’t met my British relatives

 

[Tambourine]

You assume too much.

Could you elaborate? Do you find the sources I mentioned trustworthy in principle?

 

[Tambourine]

That's considered "racist" by the radical left.

No, what's considered racist is showing up to beat up People of Color.

You know, the things these men actually do.