Trump Tax Returns - Does it Really Matter to You?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think Trump is embarrassed that he isn't nearly as wealthy as he claims. So, I care because I like to see morally bankrupt men like Trump embarrassed. Beyond that, I wouldn't expect to gain too much from them.

Personal legal fees were apparently deductible until 2018, so I suspect that his older returns might show evidence of other lawsuits against him that he's tried to keep out of the public eye.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No candidate running had a majority of votes in this election.
But even a plurality doesn't mean a win.
We have a system which has been in place for centuries.

And "old" = "fair?"

Democrats weren't complaining when the polls indicated her
guaranteed win. I'll wager they wouldn't have complained if
the EC had crowned her. But because they lost, only now do
they claim the system is "illegitimate". Mere sour grapes, eh.

Who's "they?" I'm not a Democrat.

 

[Revoltingest]

Kim Jong Un's election was also legal by the laws of his country. People given the issue more than a bit of consideration recognize the difference between legality and legitimacy.

You would have us violate our Constitution to install Hillary as President?
No, no, no....that would be the height of illegitimacy.
Both she & Donald knew the rules of the game, & campaigned accordingly.
Each chose when, how & where to campaign. Each knew how the EC works.
She just wasn't up to the task of winning under the rules we have.
(I could credit Trump for intelligent campaigning, but this election appeared
to be more about her incompetence & unlikeability than his superior skill.)
Incidentally, to equate our election with N Korea's would be dishonest.

 

[Salvador]

"Legal" does not necessarily equal "legitimate." Trump was appointed based on legal technicalities, not a mandate from the American voters.

Well then, perhaps we should amend our Constitution that'd replace the electoral college system with a majority popular vote system for determining who lawfully gets to serve as our POTUS; perhaps, we can agree upon this.

 

[Revoltingest]

And "old" = "fair?"

It isn't the system because it's old. It's the system because it is law, & few have
sought to amend the Constitution to implement a different system. As for fairness,
the EC has the advantage of giving rural states proportionally more representation,
lest the others run roughshod over them. Some like this. Some don't. I see pluses
& minuses, & would be OK with something based upon the popular vote.
But current law is what it is, & cannot be violated just because disappointed fans
of Hillary hate Trump.

Who's "they?"

Democrats.

I'm not a Democrat.

Good for you.
Neither am I.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You would have us violate our Constitution to install Hillary as President?
No, no, no....that would be the height of illegitimacy.

You're putting words in my mouth. Pointing out that Trump failed to receive a mandate from the American people does not suggest anything about breaking the law.

What it would suggest to an ethical and honest President is that they should scale back on - or abandon - the planks of their platform where they do not have the support of the American people.

Someone who won by technicalities - and even then, only by a very slim margin - should not govern as if he received wide-ranging support.

Both she & Donald knew the rules of the game, & campaigned accordingly.
Each chose when, how & where to campaign. Each knew how the EC works.
She just wasn't up to the task of winning under the rules we have.
Incidentally, to equate our election with N Korea's would be dishonest.

It's a matter of degree. On the "free and fair" scale, North Korea is much worse, but the US us far from perfect.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well then, perhaps we should amend our Constitution that'd replace the electoral college system with a majority popular vote system for determining who lawfully gets to serve as our POTUS; perhaps, we can agree upon this.

It would be largely unnecessary if elected officals acted with respect and a sense of accountability to the entire people and not just those who voted for them.

 

[Revoltingest]

You're putting words in my mouth.

No, I asked you a question, as indicated by both grammar & the question mark.

Pointing out that Trump failed to receive a mandate from the American people does not suggest anything about breaking the law.

This is your answer to my question, ie, you recognize Trump as legally the Prez.
Most (those not devastated by Hillary's loss) would say "legitimately the President",
even those of us who preferred a different candidate.
(Johnson was my choice. He'd have gotten my vote if he had a chance.)

What it would suggest to an ethical and honest President is that they should scale back on - or abandon - the planks of their platform where they do not have the support of the American people.

All Presidents discover just what & how much they'll accomplish once in office.
Trump is doing exactly as you would ask of him.

Someone who won by technicalities - and even then, only by a very slim margin - should not govern as if he received wide-ranging support.

The Constitution is more than a mere "technicality".
It's the law, & clearly spelled out...something which both candidates understood, & acted upon.

Your continual complaint reminds me of something....
"Evolution is only a theory!"

It's a matter of degree. On the "free and fair" scale, North Korea is much worse, but the US us far from perfect.

Perfection is an unrealistic goal.
Instead, we strive to the best we can, with mixed results.
I notice that Canuckistanians also eschew perfection.

 

[dianaiad]

It was delegitimized when he lost the popular vote.

We are called the United STATES for a reason. It is so that each state can have a say in who the president is. Without the electoral college, most of the states wouldn't have any say at all. The president would be elected by those high population areas on the east and west coasts, and most of the states would be 'fly over country' indeed, and totally to be ignored..which is a really bad idea.

You will notice that the constitution, when taken as a whole, is a document/plan designed to protect the minority from the majority; to prevent what de Toqueville called 'the tyranny of the majority,' or to be more blunt, mob rule. We are NOT a democracy. We are a republic, and the needs and wants of the mobs on the coasts MUST take into account...not 'be subsumed by, but 'take into account".., the needs of those who live in the middle. After all, it IS those in the middle who grow all the food and have most of the manufacturing that keeps the folks on the coasts fat and happy, and able to be comfortably liberal. Ignore them and you get dust bowls. Metaphorically speaking, at least. That's not good for anybody.

I can also guarantee you that if there ever came a time when a Republican won the popular vote and a Democrat won the electoral college, that you would be firmly protecting said electoral college with all your might, mind and typing skills.

Believe it or not, I would be doing the same thing right along with you.

 

[Nakosis]

Much has been made over Trump releasing his tax returns and there has been a lot of noise from the democrats and political opponents and recently a democratic 2020 presidential hopeful vowed he'd release his for the last seven years but who cares? Trump was freely and fairly elected without releasing his tax returns.

A few questions:

-Why is it important to some that Trump release his tax returns

It's not.

-Do you think the renewed calls are politically motivated since the Mueller report didn't work out the way democrats wanted?

I think people are fishing for anything to use it propaganda against Trump.

Me, I see it as an immoral invasion of privacy. If folks want to elect a felon for president, it's within their rights to do so. They want to give felons the right to vote but a guy who maybe has issues with his tax returns, it's immoral for him to be POTUS.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We are called the United STATES for a reason. It is so that each state can have a say in who the president is. Without the electoral college, most of the states wouldn't have any say at all. The president would be elected by those high population areas on the east and west coasts, and most of the states would be 'fly over country' indeed, and totally to be ignored..which is a really bad idea.

You will notice that the constitution, when taken as a whole, is a document/plan designed to protect the minority from the majority; to prevent what de Toqueville called 'the tyranny of the majority,' or to be more blunt, mob rule. We are NOT a democracy. We are a republic, and the needs and wants of the mobs on the coasts MUST take into account...not 'be subsumed by, but 'take into account".., the needs of those who live in the middle. After all, it IS those in the middle who grow all the food and have most of the manufacturing that keeps the folks on the coasts fat and happy, and able to be comfortably liberal. Ignore them and you get dust bowls. Metaphorically speaking, at least. That's not good for anybody.

I can also guarantee you that if there ever came a time when a Republican won the popular vote and a Democrat won the electoral college, that you would be firmly protecting said electoral college with all your might, mind and typing skills.

Believe it or not, I would be doing the same thing right along with you.

The Electoral College was mainly about implementing the three-fifths compromise for Presidential elections. It's a holdover from the days of slavery.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why is it important to some that Trump release his tax returns

Ethics and accountability are important to anyone with a sense of integrity.

 

[oldbadger]

Much has been made over Trump releasing his tax returns and there has been a lot of noise from the democrats and political opponents and recently a democratic 2020 presidential hopeful vowed he'd release his for the last seven years but who cares? Trump was freely and fairly elected without releasing his tax returns.

A few questions:

-Why is it important to some that Trump release his tax returns

-Do you think the renewed calls are politically motivated since the Mueller report didn't work out the way democrats wanted?

I'm a Brit, but it's very important for anybody to show that they have never cheated, evaded or even tightly avoided paying the right amount of tax.

If not, how do you feel about benefits cheats, who claim state and country benefits whilst earning money on the side which is undeclared and un-taxed?

If one is bad, so is the other!

 

[Twilight Hue]

We are called the United STATES for a reason. It is so that each state can have a say in who the president is. Without the electoral college, most of the states wouldn't have any say at all. The president would be elected by those high population areas on the east and west coasts, and most of the states would be 'fly over country' indeed, and totally to be ignored..which is a really bad idea.

You will notice that the constitution, when taken as a whole, is a document/plan designed to protect the minority from the majority; to prevent what de Toqueville called 'the tyranny of the majority,' or to be more blunt, mob rule. We are NOT a democracy. We are a republic, and the needs and wants of the mobs on the coasts MUST take into account...not 'be subsumed by, but 'take into account".., the needs of those who live in the middle. After all, it IS those in the middle who grow all the food and have most of the manufacturing that keeps the folks on the coasts fat and happy, and able to be comfortably liberal. Ignore them and you get dust bowls. Metaphorically speaking, at least. That's not good for anybody.

I can also guarantee you that if there ever came a time when a Republican won the popular vote and a Democrat won the electoral college, that you would be firmly protecting said electoral college with all your might, mind and typing skills.

Believe it or not, I would be doing the same thing right along with you.

I can't even imagine this country without the electoral college. Every large socialist run city will have their way each and every time like New York and California.

Small wonder why socialist liberals want to eliminate the Electoral College.

If that ever happens, don't expect the United States to be very united anymore. States will arguably secede the union.

 

[Stanyon]

with this particular President, his tax return may provide evidence of, at best, lying to the American people and, at worst, crimes.

Then again it may not, can you accept that possible outcome?
You live in Canada, did you vote for Trudeau?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then again it may not, can you accept that possible outcome?

Sure.

Trump's already been shown in the courts to be a pretty scummy individual - he's now banned from serving as a director of a charity in New York due to the illegal acts he and his family committed - but his personal tax return might not be a smoking gun for this, particularly if most of his dealings were done through his corporation.

You live in Canada, did you vote for Trudeau?

We don't directly elect Prime Ministers. Only residents of Papineau (the riding held by Trudeau as an MP) actually voted for him.

 

[Revoltingest]

We don't directly elect Prime Ministers. Only residents of Papineau (the riding held by Trudeau as an MP) actually voted for him.

And that's more representative than the Electoral College?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And that's more representative than the Electoral College?

Yes, frankly.

 

[Father Heathen]

I can't even imagine this country without the electoral college. Every large socialist run city will have their way each and every time like New York and California.

Small wonder why socialist liberals want to eliminate the Electoral College.

If that ever happens, don't expect the United States to be very united anymore. States will arguably secede the union.

You do realise that Trump himself denounced the electoral college a few years before he won with it, right? Was he a "socialist" then? (It's obvious you have no idea what that term actually means given how you overuse/misuse it.)

 

[Stanyon]

You believe Barr?

Do you believe Mueller?

I want to know if Trump committed a crime.

I think you need Trump to be guilty of something