Trump is a socialist

[sun rise]

I had never thought of it that way, but the author is correct, Trump is promoting ever more central planning and a command economic model. Now all we need to do is convince some on the right that they prefer Sanders version of democratic socialism to Trump-style socialism.

Trump has actually implemented anti-market, Soviet-style, centrally planned policies, and he has used the power of the state to punish political enemies. He has merely chosen different beneficiaries (and victims) of his Big Government bigfooting.

In some ways, in fact, Trump has proved himself a more successful socialist than Sanders is likely ever to be.
...
Trump then decided even more central planning was in order. Again, his party didn’t stop him.

First, the president unilaterally decided to use taxpayer funds to bail out farmers hurt by his trade wars. When that didn’t work, he did it again. In a tweet Friday, he suggested that a third bailout might yet be necessary.

Already, Trump’s farmer trade bailouts are more than double the size of the 2009 auto bailout.

A decade ago — with the global economy on the verge of another depression — Republicans howled that this U.S. auto industry rescue package was “the leading edge of the Obama administration’s war on capitalism” and would set us on “the road toward socialism.”
...
Today, these same Republicans seem curiously unperturbed.

Republicans, too, once argued that we should encourage China to become more market-oriented. But Trump has demanded that China engage in even more centralized economic planning — through minimum purchase commitments of U.S. goods regardless of market conditions.
...
Conservatives, likewise, complain that Sanders and his socialist allies wish to bloat budget deficits. Under Trump, of course, this has already happened. The deficit in fiscal 2019 was a whopping 48 percent higher than it was in fiscal 2017, thanks to GOP policies.
...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...053fba-5747-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html

 

[sun rise]

 

[Mindmaster]

I had never thought of it that way, but the author is correct, Trump is promoting ever more central planning and a command economic model. Now all we need to do is convince some on the right that they prefer Sanders version of democratic socialism to Trump-style socialism.

There are always socialistic aspects to government and Trump is neither unique nor special to try to deal with some of these issues. However, there is a difference between the "basic socialism" that even most conservatives would be down with for public welfare and the full tilt socialism that Bernie loves. There is simply no comparison... It's OK to centrally plan what the government is going to do, just not force people to do it. I've not seen any evidence that Trump is forcing anyone to do anything other than in the aspects of the government he has full control. (which we could argue is his job in the first place, lol.)

As far as The Washington Post it's not really a trustworthy publication anymore as they stopped caring about facts quite awhile ago. Realize they're just in the business of making a "click machine" and carry on with your day sans outrage, lol. They're extremely leftist bias and not highly rated on factual reporting. I don't take my "news" from Wapo anymore than I'd take it from Alex Jones.

If the Dems nominate Bernie they lose... bottom line... even if he's the winner -- they lose. Expect more shenanigans in the DNC sooner rather than later. They're not going to just lose the Presidency, but tons of contested seats.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I had never thought of it that way, but the author is correct, Trump is promoting ever more central planning and a command economic model. Now all we need to do is convince some on the right that they prefer Sanders version of democratic socialism to Trump-style socialism.

Trump has actually implemented anti-market, Soviet-style, centrally planned policies, and he has used the power of the state to punish political enemies. He has merely chosen different beneficiaries (and victims) of his Big Government bigfooting.

In some ways, in fact, Trump has proved himself a more successful socialist than Sanders is likely ever to be.
...
Trump then decided even more central planning was in order. Again, his party didn’t stop him.

First, the president unilaterally decided to use taxpayer funds to bail out farmers hurt by his trade wars. When that didn’t work, he did it again. In a tweet Friday, he suggested that a third bailout might yet be necessary.

Already, Trump’s farmer trade bailouts are more than double the size of the 2009 auto bailout.

A decade ago — with the global economy on the verge of another depression — Republicans howled that this U.S. auto industry rescue package was “the leading edge of the Obama administration’s war on capitalism” and would set us on “the road toward socialism.”
...
Today, these same Republicans seem curiously unperturbed.

Republicans, too, once argued that we should encourage China to become more market-oriented. But Trump has demanded that China engage in even more centralized economic planning — through minimum purchase commitments of U.S. goods regardless of market conditions.
...
Conservatives, likewise, complain that Sanders and his socialist allies wish to bloat budget deficits. Under Trump, of course, this has already happened. The deficit in fiscal 2019 was a whopping 48 percent higher than it was in fiscal 2017, thanks to GOP policies.
...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...053fba-5747-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html

I never thought of the "art of the deal" in that way. Should we all be socialist now?

 

[joe1776]

... It's OK to centrally plan what the government is going to do, just not force people to do it.

How are you going to implement policies if you don't force people to comply? And why make policies if you aren't going to implement them?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

As far as The Washington Post it's not really a trustworthy publication anymore as they stopped caring about facts quite awhile ago. Realize they're just in the business of making a "click machine" and carry on with your day sans outrage, lol. They're extremely leftist bias and not highly rated on factual reporting. I don't take my "news" from Wapo anymore than I'd take it from Alex Jones.
.

They may be biased, but a reasoned argument is a reasoned argument.

 

[Salvador]

I had never thought of it that way, but the author is correct, Trump is promoting ever more central planning and a command economic model. Now all we need to do is convince some on the right that they prefer Sanders version of democratic socialism to Trump-style socialism.

Trump has actually implemented anti-market, Soviet-style, centrally planned policies, and he has used the power of the state to punish political enemies. He has merely chosen different beneficiaries (and victims) of his Big Government bigfooting.

In some ways, in fact, Trump has proved himself a more successful socialist than Sanders is likely ever to be.
...
Trump then decided even more central planning was in order. Again, his party didn’t stop him.

First, the president unilaterally decided to use taxpayer funds to bail out farmers hurt by his trade wars. When that didn’t work, he did it again. In a tweet Friday, he suggested that a third bailout might yet be necessary.

Already, Trump’s farmer trade bailouts are more than double the size of the 2009 auto bailout.

A decade ago — with the global economy on the verge of another depression — Republicans howled that this U.S. auto industry rescue package was “the leading edge of the Obama administration’s war on capitalism” and would set us on “the road toward socialism.”
...
Today, these same Republicans seem curiously unperturbed.

Republicans, too, once argued that we should encourage China to become more market-oriented. But Trump has demanded that China engage in even more centralized economic planning — through minimum purchase commitments of U.S. goods regardless of market conditions.
...
Conservatives, likewise, complain that Sanders and his socialist allies wish to bloat budget deficits. Under Trump, of course, this has already happened. The deficit in fiscal 2019 was a whopping 48 percent higher than it was in fiscal 2017, thanks to GOP policies.
...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...053fba-5747-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html

President Donald J. Trump approves spending on bi-partisan enacted American socialist programs like social security and medicare for seniors. A little bit of socialism is necessary in order for our society to be compassionate towards helping those like the truly disabled, wounded warriors, retired American citizens or veterans who aren't able to ever work in order to help themselves. However, America can't afford Bernie Sander style socialism of extending social welfare programs to able-bodied persons like teachers, college students, and middle-age lazy video game players who could instead work to support themselves.

 

[epronovost]

As far as The Washington Post it's not really a trustworthy publication anymore as they stopped caring about facts quite awhile ago. Realize they're just in the business of making a "click machine" and carry on with your day sans outrage, lol. They're extremely leftist bias and not highly rated on factual reporting. I don't take my "news" from Wapo anymore than I'd take it from Alex Jones..

Source for such a bold claim? According to media watchdogs and fact checkers, the Washington Post is a very good source of information.

Washington Post - Media Bias/Fact Check

By comparison here is Infowar

Infowars-Alex Jones - Media Bias/Fact Check

And here is Fox News

Fox News - Media Bias/Fact Check

 

[epronovost]

However, America can't afford Bernie Sander style socialism of extending social welfare programs to able-bodied persons like teachers, college students, and middle-age lazy video game players who could instead work to support themselves.

Don't teacher work full time in your country? It's weird that you add people who work in list that include people who could work, but don't. It's also weird that you add college students since going to college prevents you from working full time. Their ''work'' is studying and you don't get paid for that, in fact it's the opposite.

 

[Revoltingest]

I had never thought of it that way, but the author is correct, Trump is promoting ever more central planning and a command economic model. Now all we need to do is convince some on the right that they prefer Sanders version of democratic socialism to Trump-style socialism.

Trump has actually implemented anti-market, Soviet-style, centrally planned policies, and he has used the power of the state to punish political enemies. He has merely chosen different beneficiaries (and victims) of his Big Government bigfooting.

In some ways, in fact, Trump has proved himself a more successful socialist than Sanders is likely ever to be.
...
Trump then decided even more central planning was in order. Again, his party didn’t stop him.

First, the president unilaterally decided to use taxpayer funds to bail out farmers hurt by his trade wars. When that didn’t work, he did it again. In a tweet Friday, he suggested that a third bailout might yet be necessary.

Already, Trump’s farmer trade bailouts are more than double the size of the 2009 auto bailout.

A decade ago — with the global economy on the verge of another depression — Republicans howled that this U.S. auto industry rescue package was “the leading edge of the Obama administration’s war on capitalism” and would set us on “the road toward socialism.”
...
Today, these same Republicans seem curiously unperturbed.

Republicans, too, once argued that we should encourage China to become more market-oriented. But Trump has demanded that China engage in even more centralized economic planning — through minimum purchase commitments of U.S. goods regardless of market conditions.
...
Conservatives, likewise, complain that Sanders and his socialist allies wish to bloat budget deficits. Under Trump, of course, this has already happened. The deficit in fiscal 2019 was a whopping 48 percent higher than it was in fiscal 2017, thanks to GOP policies.
...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...053fba-5747-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html

Perusing the OP, I find it impossible to directly respond to.
Why, you ask?
The word, "socialism", has acquired a slippery wriggly meaning these days.
In our post dictionary age, it's no longer even related to the primary definition,
ie, the people controlling the means of production. Its critics use it as an
epithet to describe every hated thing government does. Many of its fans
don't even consider economics....it's entirely about social welfare, ie, if a
government treats the populace well, it's "socialism". Posters here have
even said that Canuckistan is socialist, but N Korea is not. And the OP
usage is all over the map.
Adding the above confusion, sometimes socialism is a toggle switch
property....either on or off. Other times there's a continuum between
the ends of the spectrum of capitalism to socialism.

And now Ameristan is socialist, but N Korea isn't, & the USSR was capitalist.
Too many discussions of economics are merely about labeling the players,
& only invoking economic terms to justify the labels.
Go figure.

 

[metis]

I had never thought of it that way, but the author is correct, Trump is promoting ever more central planning and a command economic model. Now all we need to do is convince some on the right that they prefer Sanders version of democratic socialism to Trump-style socialism.

Frankly, I believe he's much more into fascism, and if I have time a bit later I was thinking about starting a thread on this with some of the evidence.

 

[sun rise]

Perusing the OP, I find it impossible to directly respond to.
Why, you ask?
The word, "socialism", has acquired a slippery wriggly meaning these days.
In our post dictionary age, it's no longer even related to the primary definition,
ie, the people controlling the means of production. Its critics use it as an
epithet to describe every hated thing government does. Many of its fans
don't even consider economics....it's entirely about social welfare, ie, if a
government treats the populace well, it's "socialism". Posters here have
even said that Canuckistan is socialist, but N Korea is not. And the OP
usage is all over the map.
Adding the above confusion, sometimes socialism is a toggle switch
property....either on or off. Other times there's a continuum between
the ends of the spectrum of capitalism to socialism.

And now Ameristan is socialist, but N Korea isn't, & the USSR was capitalist.
Too many discussions of economics are merely about labeling the players,
& only invoking economic terms to justify the labels.
Go figure.

Given how the right is conflating democratic socialism/social democracy with Venezuela, I agree that the word "socialism" is losing its meaning and being turned into an expletive that's used without much meaning any more.

The thread is, at it's root, in my view more about hypocrisy - how the right howls when a Democrat does something but is silent when a Trump party member or Trump himself does it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Given how the right is conflating democratic socialism/social democracy with Venezuela, I agree that the word "socialism" is losing its meaning and being turned into an expletive that's used without much meaning any more.

The thread is, at it's root, in my view more about hypocrisy - how the right howls when a Democrat does something but is silent when a Trump party member or Trump himself does it.

But the argument posed in the OP doesn't work
when the definition used jumps around ad hoc.

 

[sun rise]

But the argument posed in the OP doesn't work
when the definition used jumps around ad hoc.

So you're disagreeing with my agreeing with you.

 

[Nakosis]

I had never thought of it that way, but the author is correct, Trump is promoting ever more central planning and a command economic model. Now all we need to do is convince some on the right that they prefer Sanders version of democratic socialism to Trump-style socialism.

Trump has actually implemented anti-market, Soviet-style, centrally planned policies, and he has used the power of the state to punish political enemies. He has merely chosen different beneficiaries (and victims) of his Big Government bigfooting.

In some ways, in fact, Trump has proved himself a more successful socialist than Sanders is likely ever to be.
...
Trump then decided even more central planning was in order. Again, his party didn’t stop him.

First, the president unilaterally decided to use taxpayer funds to bail out farmers hurt by his trade wars. When that didn’t work, he did it again. In a tweet Friday, he suggested that a third bailout might yet be necessary.

Already, Trump’s farmer trade bailouts are more than double the size of the 2009 auto bailout.

A decade ago — with the global economy on the verge of another depression — Republicans howled that this U.S. auto industry rescue package was “the leading edge of the Obama administration’s war on capitalism” and would set us on “the road toward socialism.”
...
Today, these same Republicans seem curiously unperturbed.

Republicans, too, once argued that we should encourage China to become more market-oriented. But Trump has demanded that China engage in even more centralized economic planning — through minimum purchase commitments of U.S. goods regardless of market conditions.
...
Conservatives, likewise, complain that Sanders and his socialist allies wish to bloat budget deficits. Under Trump, of course, this has already happened. The deficit in fiscal 2019 was a whopping 48 percent higher than it was in fiscal 2017, thanks to GOP policies.
...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...053fba-5747-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html

So you're saying the Left should vote for Trump?

 

[Revoltingest]

So you're disagreeing with my agreeing with you.

I disagree with that statement.

 

[Mindmaster]

Source for such a bold claim? According to media watchdogs and fact checkers, the Washington Post is a very good source of information.

Washington Post - Media Bias/Fact Check

By comparison here is Infowar

Infowars-Alex Jones - Media Bias/Fact Check

And here is Fox News

Fox News - Media Bias/Fact Check

Yeah, unfortunately, I don't trust fact checkers either. I know their "seal of approval" is generally available to the highest bidder.

 

[Mindmaster]

They may be biased, but a reasoned argument is a reasoned argument.

You can have reasons for anything, but it doesn't mean the information is useful or helpful.

Admittedly, the post that was cited was on an opinion page. However, that tells you a lot of about their mindset, alignment, and biases. Generally, I will read the opinions to determine their lean and if even THOSE are pretty balanced I might consider them a balanced source. But, that doesn't exist at WaPo... It's bleeding heart screeching leftists who run the show, lol.

 

[Mindmaster]

How are you going to implement policies if you don't force people to comply? And why make policies if you aren't going to implement them?

Policies often have more to do with funding than anything... Without making a "plan" you really can't get the money moving in that direction. It's not necessarily about getting people to adhere to your plan, but making resources available to work toward that aim.

 

[epronovost]

Yeah, unfortunately, I don't trust fact checkers either. I know their "seal of approval" is generally available to the highest bidder.

You know if everybody needs to be a liar and/or a cheat for one of your belief to be correct it's infinitely more likely that this belief is simply wrong. I'll let you be the final judge on what to trust, but I'll only ask of you to be mindful of the weaknesses of your position.