Trigger: Pedophilia the Orientation?

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

I think there’s two categories, right? Regressed and I think fixated.

You are correct; however, here, we conflate pedophiles with child molesters. These categories are based off offenders and offending behaviors upon which there is a sample base for research. I suspect that the non-offender, who are loathe to present themselves to anyone in the public for the fear of backlash, were not included in the research that reached this conclusion because they weren't available to become subjects in the research. So I think these definitions are valid for treating offenders but question their validity when we open the umbrella to the wider population of pedophiles.

@stvdv Thank you for answering my question.

Lack of Love is the root cause of hurting others
Because when you FEEL the pain you do to others
You won't hurt them, because you feel the hurt yourself

What if the belief exists in the hearts and minds of the abuser that what they are doing isn't hurting the child at all, or not hurting the child "that bad"?
What if the belief exists in the hearts and minds of the abuser that what they are doing, the child enjoys and is healthy for them?
What if the belief exists in the hearts and minds of the abuser is that it really isn't their fault, what they are doing, because _______________?

According to the cognitive model, beliefs affect perceptions; and perceptions affect thoughts and feelings. If this model is true, wouldn't flawed beliefs affect the perception in the mind of the abuser of what is actually going on and the effects of it?

And what about the non-offender? If the non-offender denies themselves their immediate gratification for the sake of the child, wouldn't that qualify as "love"?

Hence they always say:
"a narcissist (someone hurting others) lacks empathy/feeling"

We're not talking about the narcissist..

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Perhaps it's just the shortcut for judging others, when we know that indeed many paedophiles will be more attracted to some children just as they will likely have an age range that they would be more interested in too.

I don't know.

I wonder. If a gay man saw an attractive guy, a straight man a girl, and another straight man a child, what would make the straight man's attraction much less addictive than the gay man?

What would an straight adult attracted to other adults have less addiction than another adult attracted to children?

How does one's sex and one's age determine if there is an addiction and how strong it is?

This really isn't about pedophilia or a specific topic. I just wonder why people don't question their own biases. On RF alone, the majority in some topics are favored on one side than another. Can you imagine if someone switched sides?

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Hence they always say:
"a narcissist (someone hurting others) lacks empathy/feeling"

I just caught this.

Narcissism is a complex personality disorder and a narcissist is not "someone hurting others".

What You Should Know About Narcissistic Personality Disorder

I do not feel that your oversimplifications are beneficial,

 

[Friend of Mara]

Paedophilia is a 'sexual orientation' like being straight or gay, expert claims

So, a psychologist who works with offending pedophiles, has made the argument that pedophilia is an orientation inasmuch as gay/straight/bi. Meaning that this attraction cannot be changed, not that it should be accepted. And that this should orient the approach towards treating offending and non-offending.

"Treatment, to me, isn’t about modifying the orientation per se, but getting the individual to find more appropriate behaviours to engage in.... An individual can have paedophilic interests without ever acting on these behaviourally. However, as I am working with criminal offenders, my experience is entirely weighted to those who have engaged in this behaviourally."

To report suspected abuse, try these hotlines.

Stop It Now! UK and Ireland | Preventing child sexual abuse

Home - NCMEC

Edit: IMO it's not an orientation, but it is typically resulting from the offender being abused themselves.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if its an orientation or not. It doesn't matter how we want to define orientation. It doesn't matter if its innate at birth or developed through trauama.

It.doesnt.matter.

Being gay isn't harmful. Being trans isn't harmful. Being bisexual isn't harmful. Sexual activity involving children is always harmful 100% of the time and is never acceptable. I think we can agree the same for bestiality. Therefore these acts are not permitted.

As for how we deal with pedophiles I am split. On the one hand I have a good bat and maybe just maybe a little bit of targeted cleansing is okay. On the other I don't want to ever start a slippery slope of purging undesirables to catch on.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

At the end of the day it doesn't matter

It matters a great deal. The answer to this question has significant implications in how they are treated; by the law, by society, by the mental health community. It matters a great deal.

Sexual activity involving children is always harmful 100% of the time and is never acceptable.

No one said otherwise and these statements are givens.

Therefore these acts are not permitted.

As well they should not be. Another given.

As for how we deal with pedophiles I am split. On the one hand I have a good bat

If you have read the posts in this thread, where it seems that you have not, it has been stipulated that child molestation is not pedophiliac; that not all pedophiles are child molesters (in fact, I can link to studies that say that only a minority of them are); and that not all child molesters are pedophiles (depending on how you define the word; and again, I can link to studies that indicate that the minority of child molesters are pedophiles).

Child molester is to pedophile what rape is to heterosexual.

and maybe just maybe a little bit of targeted cleansing is okay.

Child molesters have been treated violently for as long as the issue has existed, and it hasn't worked because there are still child molesters. So we can either keep doing what does not work or look for something that does work.

Words like "targeted cleansing" have a real nasty backlash. It drives people who are struggling with their feelings underground rather than encouraging them to seek the help they need to remain harm free. Driving them underground does not protect children.

 

[Friend of Mara]

It matters a great deal. The answer to this question has significant implications in how they are treated; by the law, by society, by the mental health community. It matters a great deal.



No one said otherwise and these statements are givens.



As well they should not be. Another given.



If you have read the posts in this thread, where it seems that you have not, it has been stipulated that child molestation is not pedophiliac; that not all pedophiles are child molesters (in fact, I can link to studies that say that only a minority of them are); and that not all child molesters are pedophiles (depending on how you define the word; and again, I can link to studies that indicate that the minority of child molesters are pedophiles).

Child molester is to pedophile what rape is to heterosexual.



Child molesters have been treated violently for as long as the issue has existed, and it hasn't worked because there are still child molesters. So we can either keep doing what does not work or look for something that does work.

Words like "targeted cleansing" have a real nasty backlash. It drives people who are struggling with their feelings underground rather than encouraging them to seek the help they need to remain harm free. Driving them underground does not protect children.

I haven't read the thread. I just put my two cents in.

After thinking about it making sure that pedophilia is never classified as an orientation is actually extremely important. Not only does this not give people who advocate for "rights" for pedophiles a foot to stand on. There is also the historical social issue that pedophile was dumped on the LGBT community with misguided and biased studies. Optically at the very least they need to remain distinct under all circumstances.

We don't currently have treatment methods for such people which is unfortunate. Though finding and identifying them is in our interest. They should be treated and also monitored. They should be barred from certain jobs that pertain to childcare. From there we can give them the best care that we can. But it cannot and shall not ever evolve into a situation where an individual uses these implementations as a defense case in a court of law.

I don't have concerns about the initial attempt to help people no matter their disposition. But I do have to worry about how it may evolve given human nature.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

NOW we're getting somewhere. I have to run off to work for night shift, but I have every intention of responding to your post. You show some compassion, but you also show fear; which is understandable and also admirable, as it shows that you care for the protection of those who can't protect themselves.

 

[Heyo]

As for how we deal with pedophiles I am split. On the one hand I have a good bat and maybe just maybe a little bit of targeted cleansing is okay.

Have you read through the thread? You are doing exactly what some of us are trying to teach. A paedophile is someone who is attracted to children. A child molester is someone who acts on that attraction. It is important to not confuse the two. Some paedophiles have problems dealing with their orientation and need help. Stigmatising them prevents them from getting help and so they may act on their orientation.

Edit: seems @NewGuyOnTheBlock was faster than I. I should have read the whole thread ...

 

[Mock Turtle]

Paedophile’s ‘industrial scale’ blackmail scam targeted 2,000 victims

A paedophile who exploited and blackmailed almost 2,000 victims globally has admitted 158 charges in what has been described as “industrial-scale” offending. Abdul Elahi, 26, admitted a host of charges – thought to be among the highest number of offences one individual has ever pleaded guilty to – after a lengthy investigation, the National Crime Agency (NCA) said. Elahi had previously admitted a majority of the offences, but pleaded guilty to the final tranche of allegations at Birmingham crown court last month and will be sentenced at a later date. His pleas could only be reported on Monday after reporting restrictions were lifted. The offending included blackmailing victims into sending him humiliating and degrading videos and images of themselves, children and siblings, which he then sold online, the NCA said in a statement released following Elahi’s admissions. He also provided online classes on the encrypted Telegram app, teaching would-be abusers how to blackmail victims and obtain indecent images. Elahi, from Sparkhill in Birmingham, operated by pretending to be a stockbroker or rich businessman on “sugar daddy” websites. He singled out victims who were in debt or too young to legitimately be on the sites, tricking them into sending naked or partially clothed images of themselves.

Elahi also targeted some victims on social media. He promised payment of thousands of pounds for posed images and sent fake screenshots of money leaving his account in similar transactions to convince victims. The NCA uncovered evidence of at least 196 victims in the UK, and contacts with up to 600 more online. Elahi had also tried to contact 1,367 women in the United States, with victims in 20 other countries including Australia, Canada and New Zealand. After a short time, Elahi moved victims on to WhatsApp and then once he had secured enough revealing images, he would then threaten to expose the photos to victims’ families and friends unless they sent more. Elahi then made some victims abuse themselves, including self-mutilation, blackmailing women to send footage of themselves abusing young children and making girls abuse siblings. Investigators said many of the victims were so terrified they felt they had no choice but to comply, with some “goaded” to contemplate suicide. Once he had images, Elahi systematically categorised them into box sets, held in cloud storage sites, which he then sold as collections via Telegram, making more than £25,000. The move heaped further misery on victims, as family and friends became aware, and more offenders tried to blackmail them.

This is why we need to discriminate between those who have such an attraction (and might respond to some kind of help), and those who seem to lack even the basics regarding morality - and might actually not be paedophiles. And which is why I tend to believe that punishment should reflect the damage done to others - plentiful apparently in this case.