Transitions of Religious/Spiritual thought

[swamplizard]

Greeting fellow seekers,

I wasn't sure where to place this OP, hopfully this is as good a place as any. Throughout my own 57 years I found that what I consider "spiritual" is in constant transition, though there seems to always be a base from which the various concepts evolve. As a child, I was indoctrinated into a strict Christian religion (to be unrevealed as irrelevant), subsequently struggled with the inconsistancies, became atheistic in conceptual terms, found a personal spriritual system, fringed with other Christian doctrines and denominations, arrived at a point or base that is influenced by the writings/teaching of others but not static in its construction.

I wonder if others here have been through or continue to experience this type of inner searching and if these others have arrived to a point of acceptance of a particular doctrine or if like myself, accept that the transistioning is part of the ongoing spiritual life.

Just rambling this morning without enough coffee (yet),
best,
swampy

 

[Onkara]

Hello Swamplizard
Yes, I have put the transition down to divine will. This keeps the foundation divine without giving to much emphasis on the transition and changes through life. I can appreciate that isn't an answer for all.

I don't doubt that there are others who have found one religion and stuck to it without wavering, however there are equally those who have one or many and found it isn't for them. I have not seen a factor other than will, influencing this.

An observation I have noted, is that if people don't feel that Christianity isn't correct for them, they turn agnostic or atheist, when in reality there are many more religions than semitic based faiths.

 

[swamplizard]

Hello Swamplizard
Yes, I have put the transition down to divine will. This keeps the foundation divine without giving to much emphasis on the transition and changes through life. I can appreciate that isn't an answer for all.

I don't doubt that there are others who have found one religion and stuck to it without wavering, however there are equally those who have one or many and found it isn't for them. I have not seen a factor other than will, influencing this.

An observation I have noted, is that if people don't feel that Christianity isn't correct for them, they turn agnostic or atheist, when in reality there are many more religions than semitic based faiths.

Thanks Ankara,

I agree that observation seems to place ex-Christians in the agnostic/atheistic mode rather than an exploratory one. Those who have stuck to one religion for their entire lives are to be honored, but not any more than those who continue to search within (and without) the boundaries of religious/spiritual concepts.

Do you have any basic "truths" that influence the adoption/deletion of doctrinal constructs?

best,
swampy

 

[Onkara]

Thanks Ankara,

I agree that observation seems to place ex-Christians in the agnostic/atheistic mode rather than an exploratory one. Those who have stuck to one religion for their entire lives are to be honored, but not any more than those who continue to search within (and without) the boundaries of religious/spiritual concepts never really changes its "flavour".

Do you have any basic "truths" that influence the adoption/deletion of doctrinal constructs?

best,
swampy

My personal observation (and understanding from Dharmic scripture also, i.e. others who have look inwards before me and reported it) is that most doctrines and constructs serve to arrive at the goal. Once that goal has been reached the aspirant will know the "truth" for themselves. This "truth" is not always accessible and hence the role of doctrinal constructs.

The basic "truth" I know is one I felt you shared in your first post:

I found that what I consider "spiritual" is in constant transition, though there seems to always be a base from which the various concepts evolve.

The base you mention, I take to be within me. It is that part of me which I would consider my core self which has not undergone change and I continue to recognise as myself each morning when I awake. Thoughts, emotions, beliefs and experiences all change, but they are changing for "me" i.e. that core self or base from which the various concepts evolve or are sustained.

Perhaps I am applying my own meaning to your words, and you were speaking of a doctrinal base. However without you - your core self - none of this would matter, and that for me is the foundation on which "truth" itself rests.

 

[swamplizard]

Onkara,

Thank you for sharing these thoughts with me. I too see a "base" from which emerges the experiences of the one. I think there are at least 3 basic "truths" that are operative.

Frubals your way,
best regards,
swampy

 

[Onkara]

Onkara,

Thank you for sharing these thoughts with me. I too see a "base" from which emerges the experiences of the one. I think there are at least 3 basic "truths" that are operative.

Frubals your way,
best regards,
swampy

Frubals are my friend Thanks.

What are the 3 basic "truths" that are operative, in your opinion?

 

[swamplizard]

Frubals are my friend Thanks.

What are the 3 basic "truths" that are operative, in your opinion?

Onkara,
You might consider them as a "trinity" of existence:
One is,
God is,
Infinity (eternity) is.
These operations are dependent upon each other for existence. The defining of each is conceptual and relates to the one attempting the definition(s).

best,
swampy

 

[Onkara]

Onkara,
You might consider them as a "trinity" of existence:
One is,
God is,
Infinity (eternity) is.
These operations are dependent upon each other for existence. The defining of each is conceptual and relates to the one attempting the definition(s).

best,
swampy

Swampy,
I like your explanation. What then is "life" and all that we do, based on the trinity of existence explanation?

 

[Songbird]

Greeting fellow seekers,

I wasn't sure where to place this OP, hopfully this is as good a place as any. Throughout my own 57 years I found that what I consider "spiritual" is in constant transition, though there seems to always be a base from which the various concepts evolve. As a child, I was indoctrinated into a strict Christian religion (to be unrevealed as irrelevant), subsequently struggled with the inconsistancies, became atheistic in conceptual terms, found a personal spriritual system, fringed with other Christian doctrines and denominations, arrived at a point or base that is influenced by the writings/teaching of others but not static in its construction.

I wonder if others here have been through or continue to experience this type of inner searching and if these others have arrived to a point of acceptance of a particular doctrine or if like myself, accept that the transistioning is part of the ongoing spiritual life.

Just rambling this morning without enough coffee (yet),
best,
swampy

Hi Swamp Thing,

My journey has similarities to yours - raised in strict conservative Christian doctrine, struggled with inconsistencies, but tried to cast them aside while fervently focused on my pursuit of Christianity, and then found my place in being lost. I'll always have a bitter love affair with Christianity because of its impact. And I think I'll always wander and transition. Transitioning has a quality of awe I never found in doctrine, or in my perception of doctrines.

 

[swamplizard]

Swampy,
I like your explanation. What then is "life" and all that we do, based on the trinity of existence explanation?

Life, the One All, existence in operation;
Love, the All One, operating awareness of existence.

best,
swampy

 

[swamplizard]

Hi Swamp Thing,

My journey has similarities to yours - raised in strict conservative Christian doctrine, struggled with inconsistencies, but tried to cast them aside while fervently focused on my pursuit of Christianity, and then found my place in being lost. I'll always have a bitter love affair with Christianity because of its impact. And I think I'll always wander and transition. Transitioning has a quality of awe I never found in doctrine, or in my perception of doctrines.

Aftanoon aviatic melody,

Christianity as normally organized seems to me removed from the words attributed to Jesus of Nazareth. The narrowest path only allows for the one to follow within.

Just by boggy nickle,
swampy

 

[idav]

Greeting fellow seekers,

I wasn't sure where to place this OP, hopfully this is as good a place as any. Throughout my own 57 years I found that what I consider "spiritual" is in constant transition, though there seems to always be a base from which the various concepts evolve. As a child, I was indoctrinated into a strict Christian religion (to be unrevealed as irrelevant), subsequently struggled with the inconsistancies, became atheistic in conceptual terms, found a personal spriritual system, fringed with other Christian doctrines and denominations, arrived at a point or base that is influenced by the writings/teaching of others but not static in its construction.

I wonder if others here have been through or continue to experience this type of inner searching and if these others have arrived to a point of acceptance of a particular doctrine or if like myself, accept that the transistioning is part of the ongoing spiritual life.

Just rambling this morning without enough coffee (yet),
best,
swampy

I was indoctrinated early with catholicism and as I got older I began to study other religions and christian denominations before I ended not being as fond of christianity as I used to be. I never had issues with the morals just the dogmatic beliefs attached. As I gathered knowledge of various religions it didn't take long to figure out that god isn't necessarily some guy in the sky watching if we are being good. I looked into gnostic versions of christianity and became more and more liberal until now the eastern religions seem to make more sense. I hear what you are saying regarding going through ups and downs with belief and I feel like I ended up doing a complete 180 but it allowed me to see a broader view to everything. I will probably continue to to transition as long as I there is something else to learn.

 

[swamplizard]

Hi idav,

I can certainly identify with what you've said. Static doctrine does not coincide with events, transition through willingness seems to work for me. I am glad for folks who can make particular belief structures a continuous source of spiritual strenghth and do not relegate them as inferior to the process we are discussing. Perhaps, it is the other way around, hopefully, what I lack in one area I make up for in willingness.

best,
swampy

 

[9Westy9]

Greeting fellow seekers,

I wasn't sure where to place this OP, hopfully this is as good a place as any. Throughout my own 57 years I found that what I consider "spiritual" is in constant transition, though there seems to always be a base from which the various concepts evolve. As a child, I was indoctrinated into a strict Christian religion (to be unrevealed as irrelevant), subsequently struggled with the inconsistancies, became atheistic in conceptual terms, found a personal spriritual system, fringed with other Christian doctrines and denominations, arrived at a point or base that is influenced by the writings/teaching of others but not static in its construction.

I wonder if others here have been through or continue to experience this type of inner searching and if these others have arrived to a point of acceptance of a particular doctrine or if like myself, accept that the transistioning is part of the ongoing spiritual life.

Just rambling this morning without enough coffee (yet),
best,
swampy

I left Christianity about 3/4 months ago. Maybe I'm on the start of said Journey

Westy

 

[swamplizard]

I left Christianity about 3/4 months ago. Maybe I'm on the start of said Journey

Westy

Hi Westy,

Leaving Christianity is not always as complete as we imagine, at least for me. I still honor the love innate within the Gospels (including the Gnostic), yet I find it difficult to find an organized religion that follows it; it may be that Jesus never intended an organization. "The kingdom of heaven is within."

With that said, I truly respect those who commit to a particular "faith" or creed and find no need to sway their convictions, even when they are in direct opposition to what I find within.

as always,
best regards,
swampy

 

[Awoon]

The word "kingdom" is not known to us, we in the west think of government.

Kings were councilors

"The kingdom of heaven is within," simply means Council. Heaven means peace, love, harmony, balance.

So the Council of heaven is peace, harmony, balance, love.

Simple teaching originated by John the Baptist.

 

[9Westy9]

Hi Westy,

Leaving Christianity is not always as complete as we imagine, at least for me. I still honor the love innate within the Gospels (including the Gnostic), yet I find it difficult to find an organized religion that follows it; it may be that Jesus never intended an organization. "The kingdom of heaven is within."

With that said, I truly respect those who commit to a particular "faith" or creed and find no need to sway their convictions, even when they are in direct opposition to what I find within.

as always,
best regards,
swampy

Hey Swampy

I still seem to follow a lot of the morals in Christianity. i.e love you neighbour as yourself. Although it's probably more to due to my upbringing than anything else anything. Also interesting quote. I wonder what a Christian reponse would be

I guess I'm the opposite. I don't mind people with faith in a particular religion as long as they realise that there are almost certainly going to be problems. Maybe I should have a syncretic belief

Westy

 

[vnct]

Greeting fellow seekers,

I wasn't sure where to place this OP, hopfully this is as good a place as any. Throughout my own 57 years I found that what I consider "spiritual" is in constant transition, though there seems to always be a base from which the various concepts evolve. As a child, I was indoctrinated into a strict Christian religion (to be unrevealed as irrelevant), subsequently struggled with the inconsistancies, became atheistic in conceptual terms, found a personal spriritual system, fringed with other Christian doctrines and denominations, arrived at a point or base that is influenced by the writings/teaching of others but not static in its construction.

I wonder if others here have been through or continue to experience this type of inner searching and if these others have arrived to a point of acceptance of a particular doctrine or if like myself, accept that the transistioning is part of the ongoing spiritual life.

the journey/experience which you reference here is what i entitle 'the expansion of consciousness'.

there are generally three stages:

1. physical self-discovery: formation of the egocentric child-identity.

i have brown hair and blue eyes. i'm slightly too short and slightly overweight. i am physically stronger than joey but weaker than johnny. i'm good-looking to sally but not to jane. this is who i am. sometimes it makes me depressed. i'm not always satisfied with who i am. as i age, i get even more depressed with who i am.

2. psychological self-discovery: formation of the egocentric psychological identity.

although i'm not at the top of the heap physically, i have a psychological identity, and am psychologically more advanced than common people.

i have a college degree which affirms that i am a smart person. i have corporate skills in a trade, which affirms my work-identity as a corporate manager. i've courted many women, which affirms that i am relationally sauve. i am a church member, which affirms that i am virtuous.

however, if i should experience mental illness, alzheimers or cognitive lapses, this sense of psychological identity will shatter. i will have a psychological identity crisis that is potentially even more severe than my former physical identity crisis.

3. spiritual self-discovery: consciousness of the true spiritual identity.

i am a luminescent spirit-being composed of light energy. the former basis of my identity was found to be temporally-based illusion, and is of a carnal nature which passes away. i am now free of my former shadow-self. i am no longer bound by who i formerly seemed to be. i am free.

 

[swamplizard]

the journey/experience which you reference here is what i entitle 'the expansion of consciousness'.

there are generally three stages:

1. physical self-discovery: formation of the egocentric child-identity.

i have brown hair and blue eyes. i'm slightly too short and slightly overweight. i am physically stronger than joey but weaker than johnny. i'm good-looking to sally but not to jane. this is who i am. sometimes it makes me depressed. i'm not always satisfied with who i am. as i age, i get even more depressed with who i am.

2. psychological self-discovery: formation of the egocentric psychological identity.

although i'm not at the top of the heap physically, i have a psychological identity, and am psychologically more advanced than common people.

i have a college degree which affirms that i am a smart person. i have corporate skills in a trade, which affirms my work-identity as a corporate manager. i've courted many women, which affirms that i am relationally sauve. i am a church member, which affirms that i am virtuous.

however, if i should experience mental illness, alzheimers or cognitive lapses, this sense of psychological identity will shatter. i will have a psychological identity crisis that is potentially even more severe than my former physical identity crisis.

3. spiritual self-discovery: consciousness of the true spiritual identity.

i am a luminescent spirit-being composed of light energy. the former basis of my identity was found to be temporally-based illusion, and is of a carnal nature which passes away. i am now free of my former shadow-self. i am no longer bound by who i formerly seemed to be. i am free.

Hi again vnct,

I enjoyed reading your "discovery" analysis and it has a logical basis for its assertions.

best,
swampy

 

[vnct]

Hi again vnct,

I enjoyed reading your "discovery" analysis and it has a logical basis for its assertions.

best,
swampy

thanks for reading.