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Tower of Babel

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
any God that would see a tower as some sort of danger wouldn't be much of a God at all

the tower wasnt the problem...the problem was the purpose of the tower.

The plan was to keep everyone together so that Nimrod could rule over them as a king. God knew that it would lead to misery and suffering and so thwarted their plan.

If you look at the history of Nivevah... a city founded by Nimrod... you'll see that it was a blood thirsty place, neither animal nor human were spared. Nimrod was an oppressive hunter of both man and animals and the cities he founded were built on such a foundation so life in such cities under such rulers was certainly not pleasant.
 

horiturk

Assyrian Devil

because God,being God,wouldn't need to feel threatened or jealous or any other kind of human emotion. even islam(don't even get me started on islam) states that God is not human,that God transcends and is above creation.....how do you reconcile, as a muslim ,that statement and at the same time think that God could be angry and evil enough to do,and order to be done,the evil things in the old testament? illogical idiocy.....if God was going to speak i can assure you if he posesses intelligence it would not be to illiterate nomads in the desert
 

blackout

Violet.
the tower wasnt the problem...the problem was the purpose of the tower.

The plan was to keep everyone together so that Nimrod could rule over them as a king. God knew that it would lead to misery and suffering and so thwarted their plan.

If you look at the history of Nivevah... a city founded by Nimrod... you'll see that it was a blood thirsty place, neither animal nor human were spared. Nimrod was an oppressive hunter of both man and animals and the cities he founded were built on such a foundation so life in such cities under such rulers was certainly not pleasant.

Would this not serve as a kind of mini model for a one world government?

Do you feel your god would put a stop to such a thing?

Just wondering.

Why does god not keep his people from misery and suffering now?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Would this not serve as a kind of mini model for a one world government?

Do you feel your god would put a stop to such a thing?
a one world government is a good thing... but it depends who is running it. Would you feel comfortable with a psycho such as hitler, pol pot or stalin running it?

or would you prefer it if it was run by someone like the Dali Lama, Ghandi, Mother Teresa or Jesus? You see that was the problem back there... Nimrod was a violent hunter who wanted to be in control of everyone... thats tantamount to having Hitler, pol pot or Stalin running the show. By breaking up the people, God was preventing one despot from ruling everyone.


What I believe about my God is that it was always his intention to have the people ruled under one authority...but not the authority of any sinful man, only by his own authority were we to be governed and I believe that he will do so as he has promised in the book of Daniel 2:44
“And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite"

Why does god not keep his people from misery and suffering now?

thats the age old question. All i can say is that Gods purpose has gradually been coming to fruition. 6,000 years ago he promised the descendents of Adam and Eve that he would send a 'seed' to crush the serpents rebellion. 2,000 years later he chose the man who would be the forefather of the seed, Abraham.
2,000 years after that the seed appeared in the form of Jesus Christ who taught his disciples what they needed to do to be reconciled to God before Gods day of vengeance on the Serpent arrived.

we are now 2,000 years on and we've seen the fullfillment of Gods promise to teach "the good news of the kingdom" to all the nations on the earth and gather people from the 4 corners of the globe into a united brotherhood under Christs spiritual direction.

We are also beginning to see the fulfillment of the prophecies of the 'last days' and i'm pretty confident that it wont be too much longer before we see God act on behalf of all mankind.

But i like this scripture which kind of explains to us why God has 'seemed' to hold back for so long
2 Peter 3:9 “Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.”
He holds back for our benefit... the longer he holds back, the more opportunity people have to be saved because it takes time to learn about God and what he requires and time to bring our lives into harmony with his ways.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
because God,being God,wouldn't need to feel threatened or jealous or any other kind of human emotion.

sorry, i prefer to ignore rest of your reply. it makes no sense to me.

God would not feel threatened at all. IMO it is not possible. but God may change destiny of human kind for goodness of humanbeings

.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
a one world government is a good thing... but it depends who is running it. Would you feel comfortable with a psycho such as hitler, pol pot or stalin running it?

or would you prefer it if it was run by someone like the Dali Lama, Ghandi, Mother Teresa or Jesus?
Ghandi, maybe.

The actual country that the Dalai Lama did run practiced slavery right up until the Chinese invaded. As for Mother Teresa, I would not want anyone who thought that other people's suffering brings them closer to God in charge of a country; it's bad enough she was in charge of a hospital.

Jesus... I've never seriously considered him as the leader of a country. He doesn't really strike me as that sort of person. Not the itinerant preacher that the Gospels describe pre-crucifixion, anyhow.
 

horiturk

Assyrian Devil
sorry, i prefer to ignore rest of your reply. it makes no sense to me.

God would not feel threatened at all. IMO it is not possible. but God may change destiny of human kind for goodness of humanbeings

.


of course you ignore it,no surprise there
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
any God that would see a tower as some sort of danger wouldn't be much of a God at all
He didn't see the tower as a danger.
God gave Adam and Eve two commandments in the Garden of Eden (they broke both). One of them was to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. The problem was that their descendants failed to spread out across the face of the earth. The building of the tower counteracted this original commandment ("And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth." Gen 11:4 KJV). God, by confounding the languages, caused the inhabitants of the earth to scatter.
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
I wonder what would happen if a bunch of atheists got together to build the "new tower of babel" and started building a tower with the explicit purpose of showing that nothing would happen to them? If God discerns between purposes, surely that would **** God off right?

No, me and all my religious friends will hi jack a bunch of passenger planes and crash them in to your tower to teach you a lesson... oops... wait... that was done already. Dam it @#%@@ I need a new plan.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
Here is the story:


Genesis 11

The Tower of Babel

1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar[b] and settled there. 3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.



So we see that nothing would be impossible for them, and they did not multiply across the earth, but stayed in one place. But that nothing would be impossible...they already had the knowledge of good and evil, and I believe God in his wisdom knew that man could not handle such knowledge of evil. Perhaps he knew if they lived together under one language (and one religion, Baal worship), they would fall to such depths of evil depravity, learn the hidden knowledge of such evil ways that the world would be doomed very quickly. I don't know, but I believe there is good reason behind God intervening at that time and it has to do with that statement that nothing would be impossible for them. It cannot mean "nothing GOOD would be impossible for them, for God is good, so it must mean "nothing EVIL would be impossible for them. Perhaps a king ruling his people with no freedom, like a Hitler or like the antichrist to come who will make a one world government, economy and religion and demand to be worshiped as God as many kings have done. This religion of Baal worship was the law of the land then and the people turned from the living God they knew to worshiping the creation, in this case the sun, and really Satan, as will happen when the antichrist demands worship or death. The world will eventually come together under the antichrist. The first time under Nimrod, God stopped, because he had other plans to take place first, like sending his son so the world may be reconciled freely to him first.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
This comes from a frivolous response I made in some other thread, but now that I think about it I sort of want to know some opinions on it.

Why did God seem to care when people were building a very tall tower to the point that He scattered them and screwed up their languages but didn't seem to mind at all about the various space programs?

What I'd really like to know is why the fox wanted the grapes in the first place.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
He didn't see the tower as a danger.
God gave Adam and Eve two commandments in the Garden of Eden (they broke both). One of them was to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. The problem was that their descendants failed to spread out across the face of the earth.
So what's the point of verse 6, then?

The LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them.
If God's problem with what the people were doing is as you describe, how is what he said in verse 6 relevant?
 

Nepenthe

Tu Stultus Es
I didn't explain myself well enough:
Yes, Nimrod is mentioned in Genesis as the grandson of Noah, but I meant that there's no Biblical passage(s) associating him as the builder of the Tower of Babel. All of the material ascribing him to its construction is extra-biblical and started with Josephus and the Talmud.
there are passages, but they are not all together.
The tower of Babel account of Gen 11:9 does not mention Nimrod by name... it explains only the tower and their purpose in building a city.

Nimrod is mentioned earlier (along with what he was famous for) in Genesis 10:8 in the list of descendants of Noahs sons:
"And Cush became father to Nim′rod. He made the start in becoming a mighty one in the earth. 9 He displayed himself a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah. That is why there is a saying: “Just like Nim′rod a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah.” 10 And the beginning of his kingdom came to be Ba′bel and E′rech and Ac′cad and Cal′neh, in the land of Shi′nar 11 Out of that land he went forth into As‧syr′i‧a and set himself to building Nin′e‧veh and Re‧ho′both-Ir and Ca′lah 12 and Re′sen between Nin′e‧veh and Ca′lah: this is the great city. "

Micah 5:6 mentions Nimrod in relation to Assyria because he was known as the founder of the nations therein as Genesis shows. This is why jewish tradition puts Nimrod as the one who orchestrated the building of the tower at Babel.
"And they will actually shepherd the land of As‧syr′i‧a with the sword, and the land of Nim′rod..."
So you're in agreement that attributing the Tower's construction to Nimrod is not supported by any specific Bible passages but is the result of extabiblical sources, i.e. Josephus?
I hate to keep bringing it up but I find it interesting how the extrabiblical traditions, tales and details attached to Biblical stories without specific textual support become part of scripture interpreted literally.
 
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