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Throw Grandma in Jail and Throw Away the Key?

F1fan

Veteran Member
One thing Christianity does very badly is teach responsibility and accountability. I suspect this is in part due to believers thinking they are exempt from the usual rules and laws. They see their salvation as a "get out of jail free" card. Look at Kari Lake in AZ who uses her Christian beliefs as a facade while she spreads known false claims of election fraud, that Trump won the 2020 election. I'm not sure if it is republicans using Christianity to spread fraud, or Christians using politics to manipulate the people for a deeper and more illusory false scenario.

It's disappointing to see Christianity not help guide fervent believers to a more ethical and honorable set of attitudes and behaviors. I suggest fervent Christian belief makes a person more likely to believe and support non-factual and corrupt politics. The support Trump still has among evangelicals is incredible. What is the attraction?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
The argument for letting her off appears to be...
Cancer
Old age
Female
Should sympathy for her being a "granny' be a get out of jail free card?
That would send the wrong message to the masses.
Gangs of grandmothers rioting and causing damage is the real and present threat.

If a grandmother wants sympathy for being a grandmother then she should stick to doing grandmotherly things and not rioting and protesting with violent thugs attacking police. And being female? The one protester killed was a female for climbing through broken glass in a door to attack members of congress, so let's not underestimate the "weaker" gender. And 69 isn't that old. It's too old to be held accountable for crimes but not too old to take part in a violent riot against police? Try selling me a bridge.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Gangs of grandmothers rioting and causing damage is the real and present threat.

If a grandmother wants sympathy for being a grandmother then she should stick to doing grandmotherly things and not rioting and protesting with violent thugs attacking police. And being female? The one protester killed was a female for climbing through broken glass in a door to attack members of congress, so let's not underestimate the "weaker" gender. And 69 isn't that old. It's too old to be held accountable for crimes but not too old to take part in a violent riot against police? Try selling me a bridge.
Hmmm....I'll be the same age this month.
I suspect that no one would defend this
groundskeeper for fomenting insurrection.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If you attack, yes, you should. Just as if you should get a speeding ticket if you exceed the speed limit.

My point was simply that Grandma really didn't "attack" the Capitol as policemen just waved people in. But, as mankind is, no mercy even as they attack God who is a God of mercy.

Policemen give mercy when they say "this is a warning". Revoltingest got it right when he said, "Probably just a fine" - a slap on the hand and "naughty, naughty Grandma"

In my faith, God is extending mercy every day.

So, as I said, how can we complain about God when we can't even extend mercy to a 69 year old Grandma?
I would like to see some video of police "Just waving people in". Are you sure about that? It seems to me that you might be stretching the truth a bit.

And why do you keep ignoring what she actually did? She lied to the police and misled them. Not just once, but she played the victim even though she was not. She was actively involved in the crime that she was charged with.

I see that @fantome profane linked the article that I have linked on other threads. Thank you for saving me time again:

Idaho Woman, 69, Gets Jail Time After 'Needlessly' Distracting Police on Jan. 6

Prosecutor Katherine Nielsen played video during the hearing that appeared to show Hemphill interacting with police officers who were trying to help her.

“I had to get out of that crowd,” Hemphill could be heard telling an officer. “I had surgery.”

“I understand, I don’t want you being hurt,” the officer said.

“I’m a journalist, they took my breath out,” Hemphill also said.

“I’m sorry for this situation,” an officer replied, before telling Hemphill to take refuge near a gate.


Hemphill, however, did not take any refuge, and a subsequent video appeared to show her encouraging the crowd to press forward into the Capitol instead.

“Just come on in,” she can be heard yelling at the crowd. “It’s your house, whose house does it belong to?”

“You just come in, come on in, come on, have fun, you just come in, it’s all you do,” she is also heard saying. “This is your house. Your house!”

Later, however, Hemphill presented herself as significantly more frail to other police officers.

“Are you hurt? What were you doing?” an officer could be heard saying.

“I got her,” another officer said. “Come on. Are you ok?”

“I got 40 stitches,” Hemphill could be heard telling the officers, apparently referring to cancer surgery she had had prior to coming to Washington.

Nielsen, the prosecutor, said that these interactions were an attempt by Hemphill to draw police away from protecting the Capitol building as rioters pushed forward.

“When another [police] officer offered protection, she falsely stated she tried to calm down the crowd,” Nielsen said. “These are not the actions of a citizen journalist. These are the actions of a rioter.”

As you can see she lied to the police several times. And this is not the first time that she was found guilty of rioting. This lady that probably claims to be "prolife" was earlier involved in a riot that attacked the Idaho Statehouse:

The Jan. 6 melee was not Hemphill’s first time storming a government building: prosecutors say that in August 2020, Hemphill was part of a crowd that stormed the Idaho Statehouse—shattering a glass door in the process—while protesting COVID-19 restrictions.

You can't claim to be prolife if you take part in actions that put the lives of others at risk.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
She was simply one of the many hundreds whose task was to distract the police. Maybe some police were colluding with them as well. The entire mob who planned this and if there were policemen, political staff and certainly Mr. Trump the ringleader...should be thrown in jail and given appropriate prison terms...to demonstrate what happens when you participate in an extremist mob that tries to sabotage a democracy.

Also I am confused. Who is expecting mercy from your God?
Please see original OP for context.

OK... so you are saying there was a fully organized conspiracy that included Grandma?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
The argument for letting her off appears to be...
Cancer
Old age
Female
Should sympathy for her being a "granny' be a get out of jail free card?
That would send the wrong message to the masses.
and no previous record
misdemeanor

I liked you "give her a fine" position. No "free" card but a little more grace than what they do with drug pushers, thieves, robbers, child abusers et al.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Please see original OP for context.

OK... so you are saying there was a fully organized conspiracy that included Grandma?
There was a conspiracy by some. Probably not Grandma, but she joined in whole heartedly. She went to jail and she still did not learn her lesson it seemed. She is to busy playing the victim when she was part of the aggressors.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
and no previous record
misdemeanor

I liked you "give her a fine" position. No "free" card but a little more grace than what they do with drug pushers, thieves, robbers, child abusers et al.
Wrong. She had a previous record of the same sort of crime. This time she stepped it up quite a bit. And please, you know that if they were as easy on your list you would be complaining about that.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Actually, no. I gave a list of those who didn't even get a fine.... just probation for those malefactors
I think you underestimate typical sentencing for
"drug pushers, thieves, robbers, child abusers".
For a traitor...an insurrectionist actively involved
in perpetrating a deadly riot & invasion of Congress
she got off lightly.
She shouldn't get off just cuz of age, disease, gender,
& a previously clean record.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Please see original OP for context.

OK... so you are saying there was a fully organized conspiracy that included Grandma?
Obviously. It's quite clear from all the hearings and court cases that this was a well planned highly organized attack on the capital to violently sabotage and upend the democratic process of the election of the new government. This woman had done this before at state level and was clearly part of the planning and execution of this attack. I cannot call it a conspiracy. It was done brazenly and openly through the active incitement of the outgoing president who wanted to cling to power using such tactics. These groups and the former president they support represent a clear and present threat to the American democracy and they should be justly but stringently punished for their crimes against the people and the state.

The problem with your OP is this. Assuming for a moment that the God of your type exists, he is dealing out infinite punishments for finite crimes. That is the part that is unjust. A human being is a finite being of finite powers and he is incapable of causing infinite damage to other humans (assuming that human's have life after death and hence death is just a pause) or to God's plans. But eternity in hell is basically an infinite scale punishment for whatever finite damages caused by the human. That is the part that is unjust and very different from Hinduism for example.
 
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F1fan

Veteran Member
Please see original OP for context.

OK... so you are saying there was a fully organized conspiracy that included Grandma?
Trump's lie of election fraud was the first step in this conspiracy. Look how many believed it, and still believe it. Total fraud on Trump's part.

A conspiracy is two or more people involved in committing a crime together. Just like with Alan Jones, what people believe does not justify acts when those beliefs are untrue. There never should have been a protest on Jan 6. Trump should have accepted the election results.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
There was a conspiracy by some. Probably not Grandma, but she joined in whole heartedly. She went to jail and she still did not learn her lesson it seemed. She is to busy playing the victim when she was part of the aggressors.
I don't buy the ignorance of far right people. There was adequate and valid reporting that Trump lost the election, yet the far right reject and ignore reputable media, and prefer far right disinformation, and Trump himself. Trump has a history of lying and fraud, and people have had plenty of time to realize and acknowledge Trump is a conman and can't be trusted. For those who keep trusting a corrupt person like Trump, well that is their cross to bear, and they will be held accountable. If they refuse to learn, then they will find themselves in more trouble.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don't buy the ignorance of far right people. There was adequate and valid reporting that Trump lost the election, yet the far right reject and ignore reputable media, and prefer far right disinformation, and Trump himself. Trump has a history of lying and fraud, and people have had plenty of time to realize and acknowledge Trump is a conman and can't be trusted. For those who keep trusting a corrupt person like Trump, well that is their cross to bear, and they will be held accountable. If they refuse to learn, then they will find themselves in more trouble.
Oh she had to know what was going on. And many of them that went there were probably hoping for this. But there were also people behind this that planned it and wanted to make it happen. It was not just a spontaneous riot.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Oh she had to know what was going on. And many of them that went there were probably hoping for this. But there were also people behind this that planned it and wanted to make it happen. It was not just a spontaneous riot.
Unless you lived a few hundred miles from DC you had to be an extremist to travel that far for this fake protest. You've taken a double dip of the Kool-Aid. That carries consequences.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I think you underestimate typical sentencing for
"drug pushers, thieves, robbers, child abusers".
For a traitor...an insurrectionist actively involved
in perpetrating a deadly riot & invasion of Congress
she got off lightly.
She shouldn't get off just cuz of age, disease, gender,
& a previously clean record.
I'm not suggesting that she "just gets off". But three months in jail for first offense misdemeanor?

First time Drug pushers, robbers, abusers get off much better
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
This wasn't just any misdemeanor like jaywalking.
It was an insurrection with deaths.

Evidence for this possibly overly general claim?
What I do not understand is why he ignores the article that shows this was not her first riot. Nor was it her first offense. And as you pointed out: Trying to overthrow the government is just a touch more serious than shoplifting.
 
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