This "We Are Gods" Thing...

[GiantHouseKey]

Well, I was actually being kind of sarcastic. It's just that the LDS believe we can become like God. Most Christians have a stroke when we say that, so the title of this thread actually did catch the attention of some of the LDS.

Oh ok. It's incredibly hard to recognise sarcasm over the internet.

I admire your courage for posting sarcasm related to the beliefs of another religion on their own DIR though

GhK.

 

[blackout]

Katz is a sweetheart.
I knew what she meant right away. :hug:
(just from having been here as long as I have)

It was a relevant, respectful & humorous sarcasm.
(directed more at "christianity" then LHP. lol)

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Katz is a sweetheart.
I knew what she meant right away. :hug:
(just from having been here as long as I have)

It was a relevant, respectful & humorous sarcasm.
(directed more at "christianity" then LHP. lol)

*grins* Oh I know I don't doubt that. All encounters i've had with Katz have been pleasant.

Sometimes my posts come across a little blunt but I would never compromise the respect of other forum members, so sorry if my post seemed like a subtle attack - It wasn't

GhK.

 

[SERVANTOFSET]

I've never held this 'becoming gods' thing as central to my beliefs. I've always felt that to achieve that end in the most literal sense, it must be humankind to whcih we are reffering rather than individuals who, after all, can only achieve so much in an 80 year life.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

In the book I'm reading it explains this divine spark in a few different ways. One, in Cabala, reminds me of Brahman from Hinduism. It sees our souls as leaving union with God and traveling though spheres, the bottom sphere being Earth. Growing the divine spark within us is for the purpose of ascending back through the spheres and achieving union with God.

I like this quote to with relates to this, it is from the Chapter on Cabala too but this idea specifically seems to be the general LHP idea,

"..."that man is God and the universe in miniature, and that man can develop the divine spark within him until he masters th entire universe and himself becomes God."

-The Dark Arts by Richard Cavendish

In other parts of the book, which I can't find at the moment, universe here is intercchanged with God. We are created in Gods image and so God is man writ large. The universe is man writ large.

I am still sorting through this concept in my head. In a way it makes sense. The universe is a jumble of opposites and paradoxes, and this is writ small in humans and then larger in nature. Human natures are mirrored in nature. By mastering your own natures, you master nature itself.

One of the meditations I've read about is imagining your asral self oer whatever to expand and encompass everything on earth. Doing this would mean taking in love, hate, mercy, cruelty, beauty, filth, joy, sadness and every other opposite present in the world and nature. Mastering and balancing those opposites inside you replicates the mastery and balance in nature.

I think...

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Sorry I'm being a little crack addict with this book. I'm making a thread with my favorites from it and that'll be done and over with. lol

 

[blackout]

The duality of Individual and All is only one of angle, perspective, and perception.

So every-thing is gOd... or no-thing is.

maybe even...

everything is gOd... and nothing is.

can only "some things" be gOd? when All things are of the very same "stuff"?

I prefer... All is gOd. (which is inclusive of "I am gOd" )
so that's the one I go with.

(I also like my name in purple)

 

[blackout]

Perhaps, more than "BEcoming" gOds...
it's a matter of "realizing" we already are gOds...
and then REALizing our gOdhood into REALity.

 

[Willamena]

and then REALizing our gOdhood into REALity.

Isn't that already done if it's realized?

"Becoming" I think speaks to the image of consciousness "lagging" a bit behind the unknowable really-real world. The same idea is captured in the image of "lifting the veil" and "stepping out into the world".

 

[blackout]

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraViolet
and then REALizing our gOdhood into REALity.

Isn't that already done if it's realized?

I was pointing more towards what we might DO with that realization.

 

[dragynfly0515]

To me, becoming a god means to take responsibility for the role that god used to play in my life: telling me the meaning of life, what my purpose is, what my values are, what my code of conduct is. It also means to me that I take responsibility for increasing my power so that I can manifest my will. As long as I have enough power to manifest my will then as far as I am concerned I am omnipotent.

:candle:
Crys

 

[sinistercurrent]

There was a God in your life, was there?

 

[dragynfly0515]

There was a God in your life, was there?

Yes. I was taught to worship an omnibenevolent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent God who I was told had a plan for me and my life. My experiences and observations have led me to conclude that this is not true. My current model of the universe allows for a creator god that could possibly be omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. However, my experiences and observations have led me to believe that such a god if it exists is not omnibenevolent, and is certainly not interested in me personally. I have come to the conclusion that cultivating a relationship with such a god is not worthwhile. My current model does allow for spiritual entities of both benevolent and malevolent intent but I have experienced nothing thus far that suggests that any such entities have 'godlike' powers. I have found that working with archetypes has been beneficial, but I have not concretely defined them. I know they work, and that is enough.

Did you have an experience with the standard concept of God that turned you to the Left Hand Path?

:candle:
Crys

 

[sinistercurrent]

Did you have an experience with the standard concept of God that turned you to the Left Hand Path?

I come from an atheistic background, I was never devoted to any kind of religion or God. My path that lead me to the "left" was the experience of the Self and my will to transform my Self to new stages of being. That was long before the question how I define the metaphysical worlds. Its not the question if you believe in God or not, its important what your are doing in your life... thats the point.

What do you mean with standard concept? I think the theological definitions you mentioned? IMO the concept of YHVH is the same essence as the Absolute or the buddhistic Sunyata. Pure Nothing and pure Being are the same. 1 = 0 = 1.

 

[dragynfly0515]

What do you mean with standard concept? I think the theological definitions you mentioned?

My concept of God was shaped by the teachings of Fundamental Baptists, Lutherans and Roman Catholics. This concept I have rejected. It's interesting how everyone's spiritual path is different. For me the definition of the metaphysical is equally important as the development of my self will.
I wasn't familiar with the term 'Sunyata'. Wikipedia told me that 'Śūnyatā signifies that everything one encounters in life is empty of absolute identity, permanence, or an in-dwelling 'self''. My outlook has been more animistic, that everything does have an in-dwelling self. This outlook was shaped by my 5 years as a Wiccan. The Hermetic concept that if you treat something as if it has intelligence it will respond has always appealed to me.
Does your concept of Sunyata differ from the Wikipedia explanation?

Crys

 

[sinistercurrent]

I wasn't familiar with the term 'Sunyata'. Wikipedia told me that 'Śūnyatā signifies that everything one encounters in life is empty of absolute identity...
Does your concept of Sunyata differ from the Wikipedia explanation?

Sunyata is the concept of emptiness behind the things - its the idea that there is no individual soul and no world soul. Nirvana is in you, and Nirvana is in the world, Nirvana is in everything, Nirvana is Samsara and Samsara is Nirvana.

Thus, if you look at the theological definitions of God: he is immanent and transcendent, he is pure being, the core form of existence. Every thing in the world exists. God - in this understanding - is part of everything. But if we say that things exists we have an concrete understanding of these things, we have definitions, ideas and concepts. Because of this, every existence has more facettes than pure being, thats the reason why both God is in everything and transcendent, becaure pure being is different to concrete being.

To get the idea of pure being you must take off all ideas, definitions and facettes, then you will have pure being. But if you take off all these things, what is the result? It will be "Nothing". If you subtract all things from you and individuality, what is the result? yes, without your identity you will be nothing.

That is, why Being and Nothing are the Same and why Samsara is Nirvana. And why God as the purest form of existence is Nirvana.

Your identity is more than pure knowledge, that you're existing, your identity is to know that you are differently to other, that you are an individual. Thats the essence of the western left-hand path and some eastern schools.

 

[dragynfly0515]

Sunyata is the concept of emptiness behind the things - its the idea that there is no individual soul and no world soul. Nirvana is in you, and Nirvana is in the world, Nirvana is in everything, Nirvana is Samsara and Samsara is Nirvana.

Thus, if you look at the theological definitions of God: he is immanent and transcendent, he is pure being, the core form of existence. Every thing in the world exists. God - in this understanding - is part of everything. But if we say that things exists we have an concrete understanding of these things, we have definitions, ideas and concepts. Because of this, every existence has more facettes than pure being, thats the reason why both God is in everything and transcendent, becaure pure being is different to concrete being.

To get the idea of pure being you must take off all ideas, definitions and facettes, then you will have pure being. But if you take off all these things, what is the result? It will be "Nothing". If you subtract all things from you and individuality, what is the result? yes, without your identity you will be nothing.

That is, why Being and Nothing are the Same and why Samsara is Nirvana. And why God as the purest form of existence is Nirvana.

Your identity is more than pure knowledge, that you're existing, your identity is to know that you are differently to other, that you are an individual. Thats the essence of the western left-hand path and some eastern schools.

Thank you for explaining Sunyata. I must confess that I do not comprehend it fully. My goal is not Nothingness and I greatly value my individuality. I guess I am a Westerner at heart.

:candle:
Crys

 

[sinistercurrent]

Thank you for explaining Sunyata. I must confess that I do not comprehend it fully. My goal is not Nothingness and I greatly value my individuality. I guess I am a Westerner at heart.

Yes, its very difficult to explain the 1=0 point. What are the aspects of the model you don't comprehend?

 

[dragynfly0515]

Yes, its very difficult to explain the 1=0 point. What are the aspects of the model you don't comprehend?

I am familiar with the idea of the creative force being in everything, but I don't understand what is to be gained by stripping away what makes me an individual until just the raw creative force is left. And, like you said, the 1=0 concept is difficult to comprehend.

:candle:
Crys

 

[sinistercurrent]

I am familiar with the idea of the creative force being in everything,but I don't understand what is to be gained by stripping away what makes me an individual until just the raw creative force is left. And, like you said, the 1=0 concept is difficult to comprehend.

I tried to explain why Being and Nothing IMO are the same and have nothing to do with your individuality.

There is nothing to be gained by stripping away the attributes, experiences and things that makes you individual.

Your individuality may be 13, 14 or 15, maybe 12, or 11, if you see it as numbers. "1" is the pure existence. If you look at the differences, you will see that 13 is not 14, 15 is not 12, or that 13 is not 14, but you know that each number includes the "1", the pure existence. Each thing that exists based on the "1".

So far, "1" as the expression of pure existence means not individuality, because it’s the common part of mankind. It’s the common part of all humans, and the common part of all things that exists.

But what is individuality? As stated above individuality isn't pure existence, it's more. If you experienced your Self, you realise that you are more. Thus a condition for individuality is the knowledge of the difference between you and others.

This knowledge is the condition for your whole personal way of life. Look at the bible and the myths about God and his adversary.