This is sad

[Unveiled Artist]

Even without a mandate, would you or would you not wear a mask around multiple other people who included some elderly and potentially very vulnerable ones who could get severely sick or die from the virus if they caught it?

I don't think anyone should be mandated to wear a mask when they're far away from other people outdoors; my question is about indoor spaces and settings where people could get very close to each other, such as crowded public transportation. I'm interested to know what you would do in such a situation.

I'm not around more that two people at a time before and during covid. I'm in the stores 5 or so mins, never go to the mall anymore, and either walking, running, or at the computer doing work.

This new job we're required to wear masks (as in my building). It's not a huge deal. I personally not afraid I may have COVID. It doesn't cross my mind cause there are so few cases here and one diagnosed so far I was told. People where I live have mild to worse conditions that COVID is one of my least worries.

When there are no mask requirements, I usually wear masks out of respect to people. If someone has a mask driving me home, I'll wear mine.

Vaccination I am not that genuous. But I honestly dont care who takes the vaccine. I just hope there is no war because of it

 

[Valjean]

Thank you for replying. Right now stores started to post signs that say if you're vaccinated, you don't need to wear a mask (a very happy sign at that). In smaller letters, if you aren't, you must wear a mask. I don't think it's a mandate since some stores still require masks, my building as well.

But are the unvaccinated going to comply with this "assault on their freedom," especially when it seems to target them, personally?
These radical individualists, IMHO, tend to be anti-social, and resentful of the restrictions needed if we're to live harmoniously in large, diverse societies. Many violated mask mandates a year ago, and now they can get away with it, all undetected.
I remain nervous about shopping with unmasked customers.

Wow. I totally agree. I never thought about the abortion thing-that is true. Kind of like watching a building go down in flames.

Abortion doesn't carry the risk of spreading a dangerous disease through the community.
"...so many progressive liberals have a hostile superiority collectivism complex;..." -- InChrist.
You agree with this? I see it as religious panic and paranoia over a secular world-view, and baffling attitudes attributed to "urban, éitist, left-wing intellectuals."

Vaccination I am not that genuious. But I honestly dont care who takes the vaccine. I just hope there is no war because of it

Who takes or does not take the vaccine involves millions of deaths and worldwide economic and social disruption -- and you don't care?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Even without a mandate, would you or would you not wear a mask around multiple other people who included some elderly and potentially very vulnerable ones who could get severely sick or die from the virus if they caught it?

I don't think anyone should be mandated to wear a mask when they're far away from other people outdoors; my question is about indoor spaces and settings where people could get very close to each other, such as crowded public transportation. I'm interested to know what you would do in such a situation.

I don't wear a mask if I don't have to. I have severe anxiety and the mask makes it worse. I don't need it warping my social perceptions even more. Elderly people can easily get vaccinated where I am. They have been eligible since the end of last year and, at this point, we have a bunch of leftover vaccines. They are literally paying people to get the vaccine where I live. If you're not vaccinated by now, where I am, it's because you don't want to be.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But are the unvaccinated going to comply with this "assault on their freedom," especially when it seems to target them, personally?
These radical individualists, IMHO, tend to be anti-social, and resentful of the restrictions needed if we're to live harmoniously in large, diverse societies. Many violated mask mandates a year ago, and now they can get away with it, all undetected.
I remain nervous about shopping with unmasked customers.
Abortion doesn't carry the risk of spreading a dangerous disease through the community.
"...so many progressive liberals have a hostile superiority collectivism complex;..." -- InChrist.
You agree with this? I see it as religious panic and paranoia over a secular world-view, and baffling attitudes attributed to "urban, éitist, left-wing intellectuals."

Going with the OP, some people probably won't care. I wouldn't know until they away the mandates to see who still wears their mask. Businesses seem to be playing it by ear.

 

[Valjean]

I would say that is an assumption. You do not know he definitely would have lived. Approximately 5000 have died from the vaccine. The vaccine is supposed to lessen symptoms of the disease, but does not always prevent severe symptoms or death in everyone.

If 5,000 have died from the vaccine, how have I not heard of it? Link, please.

Except that it appears the natural immune system of the unvaccinated May be better at resisting variants that those who are vaccinated.

Alarming new study shows South African variant can 'break through' Pfizer vaccine

That is not what the article said.
It reports just what the pro-mask, pro-vax, hard liners have been warning about: The longer the virus circulates, the more it will evolve to resist vaccines and natural resistance.

 

[Valjean]

People are doing their own thing where I am, for the most part. We have no more Covid mandates in Ohio or on the local level in Columbus. I'm not seeing much conflict over it. People are just making their own decisions, and our Covid rates are going down. The vaccine is readily available to most people where I am, so people can make their own decisions about it here - wear a mask or not, get the vaccine or not.

That's what I've observed, anyway.

People "doing their own thing" is what spread the disease.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

People "doing their own thing" is what spread the disease.

It's not spreading here, according to current stats.

 

[Valjean]

It's not spreading here, according to current stats.

But do the conditions that allowed the worldwide spread still obtain?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But do the conditions that allowed the worldwide spread still obtain?

Since we have readily available vaccines, no.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Figures. I didn't know you can debate in the journal section.

 

[Valjean]

Since we have readily available vaccines, no.

"Available" being the operative word....

 

[InChrist]

If 5,000 have died from the vaccine, how have I not heard of it? Link, please.

From the CDC website-

• Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 302 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through June 7, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 5,208 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.

COVID-19 Vaccination

 

[Lyndon]

Out of 300 million people in a given week do you have any idea how many naturally die??

 

[Valjean]

Out of 300 million people in a given week do you have any idea how many naturally die??

And keep in mind that these are largely 300M old and high-risk persons....

 

[ChristineM]

Sometimes I see RF as a snippet of the real world. This vaccine argument has ran both provaxxers and antivaxxers mad. I'm indifferent to the whole vax argument because I have no personal stake in it either way. But, it does make me pause and it makes me wonder a bit what has the world (and I do mean world) turn to. I look out my window and see a few cars between a bush full of trees. When I go out, I'm around not near people as most. Then I sit at my computer, and do work thinking-jeelaweez. People just can't 'think.'

Interestingly, last Saturday the big market in Sarlat was fully open for the first time in months. Yes, i was there. Despite being crowded, looking little different than pre pandemic times it was noticable that every single person was wearing a mask, people were automatically social distancing.

France is a very tactile country, welcoming kisses for friends the norm. It was obvious that friendship gesture is a thing of history, meeting friends would mean a well spaced group rather than a close huddle.

I do miss that life but health of everone comes first. Maybe when the pandemic is beaten, if ever will see a return to cultural norms.

Anyway. Reading all this RF I saw no antivaxxer (if one likes) at all putting people down, ignoring people, gaslighting people, and discrediting the other person's views. Do thousands of people need to die for the world to be so mean?.

Early in the pandemic there were several anti vaxxers here on RF who delighted in putting people down for what is essentially caring about the health of other people.

And of course the pro vaxxers also delighted in highlighting the uncaring, callous attitude.

Most (not all) the anti vaxxers have left the building, only leaving those who actually show concern for other people. I really don't see that as a bad thing.

I heard it said on t.v. no less that this covid thing is joining people together to work as a unit; step towards world peace. I honestly don't see that. Nice thought, but I don't.[/QUOTE

I do see it from the small signs such as how People behaved at market to the big charitable gestures occuing between countries.

However i also see the reverse in some aspects with drawbridges being raised

 

[SalixIncendium]

**MOVED TO GENERAL DEBATES**​

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Great. Thanks guys for messing up my journal entry.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't see it as limited to this particular debate. The conservative-liberal or democrat-republican divide is just as harsh, if not moreso. Controversial stuff like abortion, the environment, hate laws, the draft, etc. all have strong anti, and strong pro sides. I think putting it on one current issue (this one will most likely dissipate) doesn't look at the essential cause.

An issue from some 40 years back was the seat belt laws. You wouldn't believe the hullabaloo over that for a year or two. Today I only know one person who absolutely refuses to buckle up. 40 years ago there were people who cut them out of their cars in protest.

So I see a common thread running through all of these issues, and that is that people simply DO NOT WANT to be told what to do. They want control of their own destiny. No government, no amount of common sense, no teacher, etc. can convince them. I think certain cultures bring this out in people more, and I think it's also partly human nature. A small child, when told to go to his room by his Mom, doesn't want to go.

It was a journal entry. Last time I was a journal entry on a different topic, there was a reminder so people know where they are posting in the begining not a switch.

It's terribly sad people have so much hate for people who don't take the vaccine. There are people all over the world on RF and it makes 0 since provaxxers put every unvacinated person in one boat.

There's been sarcastic comments, cult mentality, name calling, shunning, in ones mind and posted.

But I think you guys know where I come from. I did a whole thread journal post of what I thought about vaccines and masks negativity.

People think what they want but making a debate out this journal was highly unnecessary.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Interestingly, last Saturday the big market in Sarlat was fully open for the first time in months. Yes, i was there. Despite being crowded, looking little different than pre pandemic times it was noticable that every single person was wearing a mask, people were automatically social distancing.

France is a very tactile country, welcoming kisses for friends the norm. It was obvious that friendship gesture is a thing of history, meeting friends would mean a well spaced group rather than a close huddle.

I do miss that life but health of everone comes first. Maybe when the pandemic is beaten, if ever will see a return to cultural norms.



Early in the pandemic there were several anti vaxxers here on RF who delighted in putting people down for what is essentially caring about the health of other people.

And of course the pro vaxxers also delighted in highlighting the uncaring, callous attitude.

Most (not all) the anti vaxxers have left the building, only leaving those who actually show concern for other people. I really don't see that as a bad thing.

There were?

I think we have five people who don't want to take the vacine and maybe two antivaxxers and other unvacinated doesn't care. A couple are just sharing their views but not antivaxxers, and I'm indifferent and not an antivaxxer myself.

There are literally cult mentality threads alone. Even some quote the idiocracy of not taking the vaccine and others discrediting people's knowledge to those who Did their homework and don't take it.

I mean people side with the group all the time. It makes it hard to think alone if a provaxxer had a negative opinion about the vaccine.

But the negativity is uncalled for.

I'm the US we love our space. It's rare you'll find strangers hug each other unless it's in a subculture or in smaller populated areas where everyone knows your name

From what I know, COVID mostly spread in the city. We had a few cases in town. Down town in our nations capitol they had some of the worse cases. I haven't gone there for years and won't unless needed. If that. NY has a lot of cases and the only two I think states have some sort of passport while many other states fight against it...so I can see some thinking involved with the governors but the people, not so much.

 

[ChristineM]

There were?

I think we have five people who don't want to take the vacine and maybe two antivaxxers and other unvacinated doesn't care. A couple are just sharing their views but not antivaxxers, and I'm indifferent and not an antivaxxer myself.

There are literally cult mentality threads alone. Even some quote the idiocracy of not taking the vaccine and others discrediting people's knowledge to those who Did their homework and don't take it.

I mean people side with the group all the time. It makes it hard to think alone if a provaxxer had a negative opinion about the vaccine.

But the negativity is uncalled for.

I'm the US we love our space. It's rare you'll find strangers hug each other unless it's in a subculture or in smaller populated areas where everyone knows your name

From what I know, COVID mostly spread in the city. We had a few cases in town. Down town in our nations capitol they had some of the worse cases. I haven't gone there for years and won't unless needed. If that. NY has a lot of cases and the only two I think states have some sort of passport while many other states fight against it...so I can see some thinking involved with the governors but the people, not so much.

No the negativity is not uncalled for when people's lives are at stake