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There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Chemistry is sufficient to have a hypothesis about.
Chemistry is sufficient to account for every step in the assembling of a living cell from non-living precursors. Chemistry is all that is needed to explain the production and the action of enzymes. Metabolism is nothing but chemistry, where molecules like ADP, 02 and C6H12O6 are being converted to other molecules like CO2 and ATP. Photosynthesis is just chemistry. Decomposition after death is also chemistry.
Which parts has science falsified?
There were no six days of creation, no first two humans, and no global flood.

The archeological case against the Egyptian captivity, the exodus, and the subsequent invasion of Canaan is strong, but not conclusive.

Linguistics and the history of the development of languages and families of languages contradicts the Tower of Babel story.

In the New Testament, no magi could have followed a star all night to a specific manger, humans aren't born through parthenogenesis (Latin for creation by or from a virgin), they can't walk on water unaided, and when they're dead three days, they stay dead.
For me it is the case that sometimes complexity points to a God, for you that is never the case.
Yes, I know. Why do you suppose that is? Why do you suppose we have such different opinions about the meaning of the same evidence?

I'm pretty sure I know. It has to do with whether we decide what the evidence means after examining it or before, which are sometimes pithily described as seeing is believing and believing is seeing depending on which comes first.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Chemistry is sufficient to account for every step in the assembling of a living cell from non-living precursors. Chemistry is all that is needed to explain the production and the action of enzymes. Metabolism is nothing but chemistry, where molecules like ADP, 02 and C6H12O6 are being converted to other molecules like CO2 and ATP. Photosynthesis is just chemistry. Decomposition after death is also chemistry.

Chemistry is not sufficient to design a cell or give life to it imo.

There were no six days of creation, no first two humans, and no global flood.

The archeological case against the Egyptian captivity, the exodus, and the subsequent invasion of Canaan is strong, but not conclusive.

Linguistics and the history of the development of languages and families of languages contradicts the Tower of Babel story.

In the New Testament, no magi could have followed a star all night to a specific manger, humans aren't born through parthenogenesis (Latin for creation by or from a virgin), they can't walk on water unaided, and when they're dead three days, they stay dead.

You have to interpret the flood and creation days just as YEC do so that you can deny them and deny the meaning of the Tower of Babel story.

Yes, I know. Why do you suppose that is? Why do you suppose we have such different opinions about the meaning of the same evidence?

I'm pretty sure I know. It has to do with whether we decide what the evidence means after examining it or before, which are sometimes pithily described as seeing is believing and believing is seeing depending on which comes first.

Part of it would be a subjective decision about our world views probably.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
You have yet to explain to us how you claim to be detecting things that are undetectable.

We need to be open to the possibility of God and allow God to speak to us and lead us. God does that in many ways. God can soften our heart or harden it as He sees fit.

In which cases? How can you tell? What methodology can we use?

Call on God and keep doing it. Maybe God will listen and show you the way.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Chemistry is not sufficient to design a cell or give life to it
Apparently, it is. Do you see anything else doing it? I don't.
You have to interpret the flood and creation days just as YEC do so that you can deny them and deny the meaning of the Tower of Babel story.
Yes, you have to read the words in order to understand them.
We need to be open to the possibility of God
If one appears, I'll let you know.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Chemistry is not sufficient to design a cell or give life to it imo.



You have to interpret the flood and creation days just as YEC do so that you can deny them and deny the meaning of the Tower of Babel story.



Part of it would be a subjective decision about our world views probably.
The Tower of Babel story is bogus as well. We know how languages developed and evolved over time and that ain't how it happened.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
We need to be open to the possibility of God and allow God to speak to us and lead us. God does that in many ways. God can soften our heart or harden it as He sees fit.
This was in response to, "You have yet to explain to us how you claim to be detecting things that are undetectable."

Your response is basically open your mind to something you don't have evidence for and maybe you'll find some evidence? Or maybe not since God can choose to soften or harden your heart based on ... his on personal whims, or something.
In other words, start with the belief, and then work to fit the "evidence' you find into that belief. No thanks. I want to believe in true things and not believe in false things and that's not the way to do that.

Call on God and keep doing it. Maybe God will listen and show you the way.
Been there, done that. Got the same response as I would from something that didn't exist - nothing.

I still don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for, because you don't seem to know either.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
The Tower of Babel story is bogus as well. We know how languages developed and evolved over time and that ain't how it happened.

You are reasoning with a global flood in mind for a start.
Secondly the way God used to mess up the languages may be the same way science has worked out.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
This was in response to, "You have yet to explain to us how you claim to be detecting things that are undetectable."

Your response is basically open your mind to something you don't have evidence for and maybe you'll find some evidence? Or maybe not since God can choose to soften or harden your heart based on ... his on personal whims, or something.
In other words, start with the belief, and then work to fit the "evidence' you find into that belief. No thanks. I want to believe in true things and not believe in false things and that's not the way to do that.

Faith is the way. Atheists these days harden themselves to not only the supernatural and God, but to faith itself. Finding the undetectable God, who is a spirit, through science that cannot detect spirit is not the way to find the truth of God.

Been there, done that. Got the same response as I would from something that didn't exist - nothing.

I still don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for, because you don't seem to know either.

The still small voice that requires faith to hear.
But real faith in God and seeking Him is enough and certainly better than closing ourselves off.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Chemistry is not sufficient to design a cell or give life to it imo.d

You opinion does not matter at all in this topic. And you should avoid loaded terminology. It puts a burden of proof on you. There does not appear to be any evidence of design. At least those that believe in design cannot find any.
You have to interpret the flood and creation days just as YEC do so that you can deny them and deny the meaning of the Tower of Babel story.
Not necessarily. I give this challenge out there, but people almost never take me up on it and then they run away when it is obvious that they are wrong. Tell me your version of those events and I can probably tell you how scientists know that it never happened. We will probably have to go into some detail.
Part of it would be a subjective decision about our world views probably.
Well that is a lot of fluff. Your statement appears to be devoid of meaning.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?
The proof of God is the Person of God's given Messenger. There is no greater proof of God than their person and life. This is the proof we are given to submit to. The Messenger, the Word and Laws given of God to humanity via the Messengers.

It is not something that material learning will discover, it is not always discovered by those practing spiritual disciplines, the logic of thiis proof is a gift from God to the hearts God so chooses.

Regards Tony
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
You opinion does not matter at all in this topic. And you should avoid loaded terminology. It puts a burden of proof on you. There does not appear to be any evidence of design. At least those that believe in design cannot find any.

Those who believe in design can find evidence of it but it cannot be tested.

Not necessarily. I give this challenge out there, but people almost never take me up on it and then they run away when it is obvious that they are wrong. Tell me your version of those events and I can probably tell you how scientists know that it never happened. We will probably have to go into some detail.

Well that is a lot of fluff. Your statement appears to be devoid of meaning.

I have better things to do. But you can show me how a local flood has been shown to be wrong and how creation has been shown to be wrong.
 
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