There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[loverofhumanity]

I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?

The problem is that trees and plants could also argue they don’t believe in jetliners and skyscrapes because it’s simply beyond their ability to comprehend. It does not mean these things do not exist, only that lower forms of life are unable to understand the realities of higher life forms. We, being human know these things but we too have our own limitations. To say another Being above and beyond our comprehension does not exist is only because of our own limitations. We do not actually know that.

The Baha’i definition of God is the ‘Unknowable Essence’. So something that by definition is unknowable cannot be comprehended by the human mind, but I believe we would be as foolish to say God does not exist just as the tree may think submarines to be a myth. The gist of this is that we don’t know all that there is to know so how can we categorically dismiss the idea of the existence of a Supreme Being Who is All Knowing and intelligent? We can dismiss the idea but not rationally for rational dictates we do not know everything to make such a call.

But we do have the Prophets, almost superhuman Who have spread this knowledge of God everywhere and not the cruellest torture mongers could stop Them from spreading worldwide that God exists. But that doesn’t mean we are forced to believe and follow. It all comes down to choice and billions have chosen to accept that fact. But anyone is free to say that God the ‘Unknowable Essence’ can never be proven because the human mind cannot ever prove God because anything we imagine to be God is but our own imaginations not God. God is unknowable.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yeah, but the problem is that subjectivity is in practice variation. And for some of the debates we do, we can't even agree what subjectivity is.
So I am not going to waste energy on that anymore.

If you wish to bow out fine,, but I go with the very standard definition of what is objective versus subjective.

Subjective vs. Objective - Know the Difference | Learn English

Subjective is the flawed characteristic of opinions that makes them biased when it depends heavily on the feelings, emotions and perspectives of an individual and objective is the characteristic of the statement that establishes them as factual truths.

www.learngrammar.net

Subjective​

Something is labeled subjective when it depends heavily on the feelings, emotions and perspectives of an individual. Subjective remarks are often biased, prejudiced and partial in nature.

Exp. #1 - What you said is merely subjective.

When a statement is subjective, it has room to change or evolve with time and experience. Labeling something as subjective is a constructive way to argue with someone’s opinion.

Exp. #2 - Subjective views vary from person to person.

Objective​

• It is an Adjective and when something is objective, it does not depend on the feelings, emotions and perspectives of anybody. That makes these unbiased, factual and logical.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Why do you ask for evidence of belief in God, when the thing you need evidence for is faith? Faith is not just trust, but liberation, and transcendence as well.

EDIT: faith is a life force of goodness, and livability of life & nature.

 

[shunyadragon]

Why do you ask for evidence of belief in God, when the thing you need evidence for is faith? Faith is not just trust, but liberation, and transcendence as well.

EDIT: faith is a life force of goodness, and livability of life & nature.

OK, this is 'what you believe..' What you are attempting to describe is a rather contorted logic justifying a reason why God answers 'some' prayers and not others.

There are several questions here concerning belief and faith, and whether there is evidence for God(s). If you do not believe there is objective evidence, or you believe the evidence is not necessary for belief in God that is another issue.

What is reflected in the above is your subjective belief that faith is a life force of goodness and the livability of life and nature.

Anyone can believe the above in many diverse conflicting beliefs including atheists and agnostics. Atheists simply believe that anything you would describe as 'a life force is simply the nature of our physical existence.. The problem is all of the above is subjective depending on what anyone believes.

 

[shunyadragon]

The philosophy of Universalism does not attempt to prove or demonstrate that God(s) exist or not. Its purpose is to independently evaluate the beliefs of the different religions and variable beliefs in the history of humanity in relation to a universal perspective. Of course, a basic assumption is Universalism is that the existence or non-existence of God(s) cannot be demonstrated nor logically proven.

My first assumption concerning the existence of God(s) is that IF God exists God is a Universal God beyond the God described and believed in the different ancient religions in the history of humanity. The beliefs and descriptions of the ancient God(s) are diverse and conflicting and reflect the cultural perspective at the time when the scripture was written, The ancient descriptions of God(s) are not only ancient but anthropomorphic in nature, which is a contradiction with the possibility of a Universal God.

The second assumption is the fallible nature of human's limits of our knowledge and understanding beyond the nature of our physical existence. The historical evidence demonstrates this inconsistency in the claims of any one religion.

Second conclusion: IF God(s) exist all we would know are the attributes of God(s) and not God(s) personally themselves,

The basis of my belief in God is, of course, subjective like all the variables of conflicting ancient beliefs. It is the belief in a Universal unknowable God that reveals the attributes of God through the progressive Revelation over the history of humanity. The nature of our physical existence also reflects the attributes of the Universal God, and science is in harmony with this view.

More to follow . . .

IF God exists what is Salvation from the Universalism perspective?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?

Depends on the god, but I don't think they're unfalsifiable in general.

IMO, many (maybe most?) gods are theoretically falsifiable and a fair number have been actually falsified.

 

[shunyadragon]

Depends on the god, but I don't think they're unfalsifiable in general.

IMO, many (maybe most?) gods are theoretically falsifiable and a fair number have been actually falsified.

I believe the ancient God(s) of religions and mythology are indeed determined to be most likely false by the historical evidence and logical arguments concerning their nature as described in the ancient scripture and what they believed was true concerning Go(s). Of course, there is absolutely no evidence today or the miraculous hands on God(s) of ancient religions. The only logical nature of a possible Universal God is God acts in Creation and involvement with our physical existence is God acts through natural processes as we see today.

The only way these ancient views of God(s) have any possible relevance is if they are an ancient limited perspective of a Universal God that is to a degree unknowable, and this requires subjective assumptions of belief.

The actual falsifiability of their existence is limited by the lack of physical existence either way.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The problem is that trees and plants could also argue they don’t believe in jetliners and skyscrapes because it’s simply beyond their ability to comprehend. It does not mean these things do not exist, only that lower forms of life are unable to understand the realities of higher life forms. We, being human know these things but we too have our own limitations. To say another Being above and beyond our comprehension does not exist is only because of our own limitations. We do not actually know that.

If a concept is beyond our ability to comprehend, then when someone claims to:

- believe in that concept, and
- have justification for their belief in that concept,

... then we can rightly say "no, you don't."

Whatever a person believes in, it certainly doesn't include anything incomprehensible, and we can automatically dismiss any "justification" for the existence of an incomprehensible thing as invalid.

 

[SDavis]

I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?

There is no proof that he doesn't exist!!!!

Even scientists will not tackle the existence or nonexistence of God because it can be proven either way.

The Lord said my sheep know my voice - he said not one that the Father has given him will he lose but he will raise them up in the last day.

It's in us he's a part of us to know and we will not deny it. Those that deny him were never his.

 

[shunyadragon]

There is no proof that he doesn't exist!!!!

Even scientists will not tackle the existence or nonexistence of God because it can be proven either way.

It is not a matter of 'will 'not tackle the existence or nonexistence of God(s)' It is a matter that the existence of God(s) cannot be falsifier by scientific evidence, because of the lack of objective verifiable evidence. There is no such thing as 'proof; in science.

The Lord said my sheep know my voice - he said not one that the Father has given him will he lose but he will raise them up in the last day.

It's in us he's a part of us to know and we will not deny it. Those that deny him were never his.

A rather ancient tribal view of God.

 

[Polymath257]

There is no proof that he doesn't exist!!!!

Even scientists will not tackle the existence or nonexistence of God because it can be proven either way.

The Lord said my sheep know my voice - he said not one that the Father has given him will he lose but he will raise them up in the last day.

It's in us he's a part of us to know and we will not deny it. Those that deny him were never his.

You know what happens to sheep: they get sheared and then off to slaughter.

 

[SDavis]

It is not a matter of 'will 'not tackle the existence or nonexistence of God(s)' It is a matter that the existence of God(s) cannot be falsifier by scientific evidence, because of the lack of objective verifiable evidence. There is no such thing as 'proof; in science.



A rather ancient tribal view of God.

An ancient tribal view of God

Since there is no scientific evidence to validate the existence of God or no evidence to validate the non-existence of God there is no such thing as scientific proof.

There's No Such Thing As Proof In The Scientific World - There's Only Evidence

What do you think is the most counterintuitive yet relevant result in physics? This question was originally answered on Quora by Jack Fraser.

www.forbes.com

 

[SDavis]

You know what happens to sheep: they get sheared and then off to slaughter.

So do cows and so do hogs - the difference is what they do with the outer layer. I can add rabbit and deer and many other wild game. Haven't really made a point though your attempt at sarcasm is noted.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If a concept is beyond our ability to comprehend, then when someone claims to:

- believe in that concept, and
- have justification for their belief in that concept,

... then we can rightly say "no, you don't."

Whatever a person believes in, it certainly doesn't include anything incomprehensible, and we can automatically dismiss any "justification" for the existence of an incomprehensible thing as invalid.

I don’t think we can say ‘no you don’t’ ether because that would be making the call that we deny the possibility that there could be an incomprehensible Intelligence that we are unaware of. People who are swayed to accept a Divine is usually because of some remarkable Person such as a Christ or Muhammad Who spoke of a ‘Higher Truth’. But all of us who believe don’t know from direct contact with this Divine Being. But I believe all humans have a ‘6th sense’ which is a ‘spiritual sense’ and can detect traces or signs of the Divine. All of us I believe are born with this sense potentially but it only alerts us to God if it’s sufficiently developed or activated. In a world and humanity whose focus is primarily on materialistic pursuits, this 6th sense i believe, is suppressed causing many to deny there is a God. But in those who have a healthy functioning spirit, it’s as clear as day that God exists.

But none of us actually ‘know God’ directly. We only know ‘of‘ God by our innate spiritual ability to perceive that there is an unknown Reality beyond our comprehension.

This spiritual sense can sense there is a Divine Being but not fathom It’s mystery or Essence. This sense is usually awoken In us by the Messengers which appear every thousand years or so. They are the Ones Who act as Intermediaries between God and humans as we cannot directly communicate with God. The Prophets I believe, were not conceived at conception like us humans, but were pre-existent and prepared to receive direct revelation from God.

Peoples concept of God is not always accurate. There is a lot of unacceptable superstition rightfully pointed out by atheists and skeptics.

Baha’u’llah affirms such with this statement. We cannot know God directly.

To every discerning and illumined heart it is evident that God, the unknowable Essence, the divine Being, is immensely exalted beyond every human attribute, such as corporeal existence, ascent and descent, egress and regress.

 

[YoursTrue]

One would be good for starters.

How so? I’ve read it, as well as some criticisms. What separates it from other mythological tales and epics? It’s wise words are found in other religious texts, which I assume you don’t think are necessarily divinely inspired. How is the Bible definitively proof of divine authorship?

Hmm, idk about that. I’m sure the atheists on this site are good folk, just like I give the benefit of the doubt that you are.

No one is perfect, btw, would you first of all agree to that? As for definition of good or not good might be interesting. However, I doubt we would ultimately agree to definitions of good and/or bad.

 

[Polymath257]

An ancient tribal view of God

Since there is no scientific evidence to validate the existence of God or no evidence to validate the non-existence of God there is no such thing as scientific proof.

There's No Such Thing As Proof In The Scientific World - There's Only Evidence

What do you think is the most counterintuitive yet relevant result in physics? This question was originally answered on Quora by Jack Fraser.

www.forbes.com

And then the question becomes *why* there is no scientific evidence either way. Because the term 'scientific evidence' is, ultimately, redundant. Evidence, when skeptically pursued, is automatically scientific.

 

[Thrillobyte]

The other evidence is in the Bible, which is proof of divine authorship.

The question better asked is, "Why do you believe in a God who is so perfect that he could be the author of a book riddled with so many errors, contradictions and outright untruths that it would take a book equally as thick to detail them."

At last count GhanaWeb had caught 50,000 Errors and Biblical contradictions

50,000!!!!!!!! This from a "Perfect" God.

50,000 Errors and Biblical contradictions

If the Bible was divinely inspired, then why would it have so many really obvious contradictions?

www.ghanaweb.com

 

[shunyadragon]

An ancient tribal view of God

Since there is no scientific evidence to validate the existence of God or no evidence to validate the non-existence of God there is no such thing as scientific proof.

There's No Such Thing As Proof In The Scientific World - There's Only Evidence

What do you think is the most counterintuitive yet relevant result in physics? This question was originally answered on Quora by Jack Fraser.

www.forbes.com

True

 

[SDavis]

And then the question becomes *why* there is no scientific evidence either way. Because the term 'scientific evidence' is, ultimately, redundant. Evidence, when skeptically pursued, is automatically scientific.

They say it best

Can Science Prove The Existence Of God?

And remember, you can't assume the conclusion before you find the evidence!

www.forbes.com

 

[Brian2]

I see things like the correcting mechanisms in DNA replication as evidence of God. That is not the sort of evidence that can be tested or falsified or anything, but that does not mean it is not evidence to me even if others do not see it that way.

14.6: DNA Repair

DNA replication is a highly accurate process, but mistakes can occasionally occur, such as a DNA polymerase inserting a wrong base. Uncorrected mistakes may sometimes lead to serious consequences, …

bio.libretexts.org