Theists: Atheism is a Religion?

[Audie]

It depends on how we choose to define "religion". I would define religion as a collection of tools (myths, rituals, practices, images, rules, principals, etc.,) used to help people live in accord with their accepted theological proposition. And since atheism is a theological proposition, a "religion" could be constituted and attributed to it, and practiced by willing adherents of atheism. I don't think most atheists do so, however, simply because it would be difficult to create a "religion" based on the NON-existence of deity.

However, in recent years there has been a significant increase in atheistic "scientism" which I have to recognize as functioning as a religion in nearly all aspects.

Ah, yes, the grim chimera of "Scientism", the
club of perhaps two members, somewhere.

 

[Audie]

First, one has to know what they're talking about; that is, have an good idea of what religion is. Looking over a few dictionary definitions, they all seem to be pretty much in agreement as to the nature of religion: This one is from Merriam-Webster.

religion
noun
re·li·gion | \ ri-ˈli-jən

b(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural
(2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
​

Then I came across the following from Wikipedia that I think nicely address the subject.

The very attempt to define religion, to find some distinctive or possibly unique essence or set of qualities that distinguish the religious from the remainder of human life, is primarily a Western concern. The attempt is a natural consequence of the Western speculative, intellectualistic, and scientific disposition. It is also the product of the dominant Western religious mode, what is called the Judeo-Christian climate or, more accurately, the theistic inheritance from Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The theistic form of belief in this tradition, even when downgraded culturally, is formative of the dichotomous Western view of religion. That is, the basic structure of theism is essentially a distinction between a transcendent deity and all else, between the creator and his creation, between God and man.

The anthropologist Clifford Geertz defined religion as a

[…] system of symbols which acts to establish powerful, pervasive, and long-lasting moods and motivations in men by formulating conceptions of a general order of existence and clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality that the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic."
__________________

The theologian Antoine Vergote took the term supernatural simply to mean whatever transcends the powers of nature or human agency. He also emphasized the cultural reality of religion, which he defined as

[…] the entirety of the linguistic expressions, emotions and, actions and signs that refer to a supernatural being or supernatural beings.
___________________

Peter Mandaville and Paul James intended to get away from the modernist dualisms or dichotomous understandings of immanence/transcendence, spirituality/materialism, and sacredness/secularity. They define religion as

[…] a relatively-bounded system of beliefs, symbols and practices that addresses the nature of existence, and in which communion with others and Otherness is lived as if it both takes in and spiritually transcends socially-grounded ontologies of time, space, embodiment and knowing.
___________________

According to the MacMillan Encyclopedia of Religions, there is an experiential aspect to religion which can be found in almost every culture:

[…] almost every known culture [has] a depth dimension in cultural experiences […] toward some sort of ultimacy and transcendence that will provide norms and power for the rest of life. When more or less distinct patterns of behavior are built around this depth dimension in a culture, this structure constitutes religion in its historically recognizable form. Religion is the organization of life around the depth dimensions of experience—varied in form, completeness, and clarity in accordance with the environing culture.


​

Now, if anyone here thinks atheism falls within any of these definitions, please elaborate.

.

Ask Popeye

 

[Quintessence]

Calling atheism a "religion" is nothing more than a distraction so that theists of whatever religion don't have to answer to the real crux of the issue - the fact that they have no sufficient evidence and that their belief is unwarranted.

You wish that was the case, I'm sure. Meanwhile, theists continue to not be some hive-mind with identical reasons and motivations for identifying atheism as a religion. They also continue to have perfectly good reasons and evidence for their positions.

Oh, and since theists aren't some hive-mind, they aren't all making the observation that atheism can function as a religion as a way of indirectly insulting atheists. I understand the paranoia of being a minority. I really do. But good grief, man.

 

[lukethethird]

On a flat earth I could well imagine that atheism is a religion.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I was recently told Atheism is a religion with tenets, and dogma. So I have a ? for those theists who think atheism is a religion.

1. For the theists who believe in a single god, I assume you're an atheist towards other gods. For example, let's say you don't believe in, you have an atheist view towards, Ahura Mazda, Zeus and Krishna. So if you're a theist who believes atheism is a religion; when you "practice" your atheism towards those gods you don't believe in, who gives you your dogma, tenets, doctrines, creeds etc? I haven't found any for atheism so I'm willing to be educated on this matter when you tell me where yours come from. Thanks!

2. I was curious so I looked up some surveys about atheist beliefs. Re: atheists: Conservapedia said 32% believe in an afterlife, 6% believe in resurrection, they also found atheists who believe in ghosts, souls, pseudoscience, UFOs. Pews Forum reports 9% don't believe in evolution. 32% rely on science to determine right from wrong while 44% rely on past experience and common sense. And a large number of Dutch atheists believe in a "universal force". So...with all these beliefs all over the map, who is giving atheists their doctrines, tenets & dogma and why are they giving them a religious structure that's so varied & inconsistent?

I believe we are all our brother's keepers.

We are all called, whatever we believe, to try to save the rest of humanity. We all have the seal of approval to do this.

 

[Audie]

You wish that was the case, I'm sure. Meanwhile, theists continue to not be some hive-mind with identical reasons and motivations for identifying atheism as a religion. They also continue to have perfectly good reasons and evidence for their positions.

Oh, and since theists aren't some hive-mind, they aren't all making the observation that atheism can function as a religion as a way of indirectly insulting atheists. I understand the paranoia of being a minority. I really do. But good grief, man.

Id actually be more impressed with them theists if they
were a hive mind.

As it is they hear from "god"(s) but they hear
different things, contradictory and yet the Truth
of God, as they so often claim.

 

[Audie]

I believe we are all our brother's keepers.

We are all called, whatever we believe, to try to save the rest of humanity. We all have the seal of approval to do this.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Uh, no.
Both words have "theism" in them.
Being opposite does not make them the same.

I never...said they were the same?
Religion requires a series of tenants and doctrines. Neither atheism nor theism does. There are atheistic and theistic religions, but atheism and theism are not themselves religions. They are just one answer to one question 'is there a god?' Not everyone to answers yes is part of a religion, not everyone who answers no is not part of a religion.

 

[ChristineM]

I think its really telling and laughable that people who have faith in religion claim atheism is a religion. Like theists would know.

There is a hint in the name a-theism meaning without gods. So can these people who claim atheism is a religion please explain to me how having no belief in god or gods counts as having belief in god or gods?

Let me provide the definitions of atheism and belief

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Belief : trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.

So an atheist has NO trust, NO faith or NO confidence in god or gods

Note, NO faith

So here to is the definition of faith
Faith : strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.


I would also like to ask these people if they think not collecting stamps counts as a hobby?

Not playing football counts as a sport?

Not working counts as employment?

 

[Audie]

I never...said they were the same?
Religion requires a series of tenants and doctrines. Neither atheism nor theism does. There are atheistic and theistic religions, but atheism and theism are not themselves religions. They are just one answer to one question 'is there a god?' Not everyone to answers yes is part of a religion, not everyone who answers no is not part of a religion.

ah, I misread what you said.

 

[Audie]

I think its really telling and laughable that people who have faith in religion claim atheism is a religion. Like they would know.

There is a hint in the name a-theism meaning without gods. So can these people who claim atheism is a religion please explain to me how having no belief in god or gods counts as having belief in god or gods?

Let me provide the definitions of atheism and belief

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Belief : trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.

So an atheist has NO trust, NO faith or NO confidence in god or gods

Note, NO faith

So here to is the definition of faith
Faith : strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.


I would also like to ask these people if they think not collecting stamps counts as a hobby?

Not playing football counts as a sport?

Not working counts as employment?

I THINK is is because they are so fully engaged
with the idea of "god" as central to all,
that they cannot conceive of anyone not
recognizing god as the one sure fact of all reality.

You will hear it; "The only thing I know for sure is
that there is a god."

And

"In their hearts, everyone believes in god.'.

So to those sorts, it is inconceivable that someone
does not have a religion.

Sometimes it is "Well if you are an atheist, you
worship yourself." "Everybody worships SOMETHING!"

Actual atheism is outside their comprehension.
Not all theists are so afflicted, but, when you see
one arguing that it is a religion, you know you've
got a live one.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I was recently told Atheism is a religion with tenets, and dogma. So I have a ? for those theists who think atheism is a religion.

1. For the theists who believe in a single god, I assume you're an atheist towards other gods. For example, let's say you don't believe in, you have an atheist view towards, Ahura Mazda, Zeus and Krishna. So if you're a theist who believes atheism is a religion; when you "practice" your atheism towards those gods you don't believe in, who gives you your dogma, tenets, doctrines, creeds etc? I haven't found any for atheism so I'm willing to be educated on this matter when you tell me where yours come from. Thanks!

2. I was curious so I looked up some surveys about atheist beliefs. Re: atheists: Conservapedia said 32% believe in an afterlife, 6% believe in resurrection, they also found atheists who believe in ghosts, souls, pseudoscience, UFOs. Pews Forum reports 9% don't believe in evolution. 32% rely on science to determine right from wrong while 44% rely on past experience and common sense. And a large number of Dutch atheists believe in a "universal force". So...with all these beliefs all over the map, who is giving atheists their doctrines, tenets & dogma and why are they giving them a religious structure that's so varied & inconsistent?

All dogma, doctrine, tenets, etc etc are from man, not God.
Therefore, they are all wrong.

However, there is, and can be, only ONE god. The attributes of God, make it so. Allah is the name given that God by Muslims.
Ahura Mazda is the name given that God by a believer of Zoroastrianism. I can’t tell you what name Christians give to God, because there may be almost as many names as there are different Christian sects. And just because some people claim they don’t believe in God, doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

The beliefs, dogma, doctrine, etc are irrelevant. The only question is: Are you loving to all other people regardless of their beliefs, dogma, doctrine?

In conclusion, I think it’s a good thing not to focus your existence on a religion, but focus it on love.

 

[ChristineM]

I THINK is is because they are so fully engaged
with the idea of "god" as central to all,
that they cannot conceive of anyone not
recognizing god as the one sure fact of all reality.

You will hear it; "The only thing I know for sure is
that there is a god."

And

"In their hearts, everyone believes in god.'.

So to those sorts, it is inconceivable that someone
does not have a religion.

Sometimes it is "Well if you are an atheist, you
worship yourself." "Everybody worships SOMETHING!"

Actual atheism is outside their comprehension.
Not all theists are so afflicted, but, when you see
one arguing that it is a religion, you know you've
got a live one.

Oh, i absolutely agree with you. They simply cannot comprehend a no god scenario. No god sitting on their shoulder telling them what is right and what is wrong. No guy supervising life saving operations so they can pray their thanks to him while ignoring the surgeon and slagging the science that made it possible...

... Rant over

but... but... but... but i really wanted to hear the truth from a believer in religion. No fun coming from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

 

[oldbadger]

I was recently told Atheism is a religion with tenets, and dogma. So I have a ? for those theists who think atheism is a religion.

1. For the theists who believe in a single god, I assume you're an atheist towards other gods. For example, let's say you don't believe in, you have an atheist view towards, Ahura Mazda, Zeus and Krishna. So if you're a theist who believes atheism is a religion; when you "practice" your atheism towards those gods you don't believe in, who gives you your dogma, tenets, doctrines, creeds etc? I haven't found any for atheism so I'm willing to be educated on this matter when you tell me where yours come from. Thanks!

2. I was curious so I looked up some surveys about atheist beliefs. Re: atheists: Conservapedia said 32% believe in an afterlife, 6% believe in resurrection, they also found atheists who believe in ghosts, souls, pseudoscience, UFOs. Pews Forum reports 9% don't believe in evolution. 32% rely on science to determine right from wrong while 44% rely on past experience and common sense. And a large number of Dutch atheists believe in a "universal force". So...with all these beliefs all over the map, who is giving atheists their doctrines, tenets & dogma and why are they giving them a religious structure that's so varied & inconsistent?

I am a Deist who has no belief in any Theism, and so I am atheistic as well.

Atheism covers many belief concepts.

 

[Audie]

I am a Deist who has no belief in any Theism, and so I am atheistic as well.

Atheism covers many belief concepts.

You are an old meanie but sometimes I like you
anyway.

 

[Desert Snake]

I think its really telling and laughable that people who have faith in religion claim atheism is a religion. Like theists would know.

There is a hint in the name a-theism meaning without gods. So can these people who claim atheism is a religion please explain to me how having no belief in god or gods counts as having belief in god or gods?

Let me provide the definitions of atheism and belief

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Belief : trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.

So an atheist has NO trust, NO faith or NO confidence in god or gods

Note, NO faith

So here to is the definition of faith
Faith : strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.


I would also like to ask these people if they think not collecting stamps counts as a hobby?

Not playing football counts as a sport?

Not working counts as employment?

How are you matching without a g-d, to not having belief, in a g-d. Are you saying that any belief in a g-d, and the person is a "theist"?

 

[Quintessence]

Id actually be more impressed with them theists if they
were a hive mind.

As it is they hear from "god"(s) but they hear
different things, contradictory and yet the Truth
of God, as they so often claim.

That would be seriously creepy, and if true, would apply to all humans. It would mean all humans would have to interpret the same event exactly the same in spite of being distinct individuals. It would mean humanity had become assimilated into The Borg Collective. Impressive in a fashion, but definitely not the word I'd use for it.

 

[Audie]

All dogma, doctrine, tenets, etc etc are from man, not God.
Therefore, they are all wrong.

However, there is, and can be, only ONE god. The attributes of God, make it so.
.

Hang on there son. Everybody is wrong but you and
those who think like you?

The "attributes" of "god"??

This undetectable "god", you somehow know what
it's attributes are? Dont be ridiculous. You do not.
You are just saying things.

The countless people who've believed in multiple
gods will not be taking to your notion of "attributes".

"Love" is nice. Being nice is nice. What does
that have to do with some "god" that is, what?

You sure dont know.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Yeah him and you too.

 

[ChristineM]

How are you matching without a g-d, to not having belief, in a g-d. Are you saying that any belief in a g-d, and the person is a "theist"?

I am quoting the original greek meaning and the current definition