The Way, a Way, Way.

[Ozzie]

Chinese has no article, so any translation into English suffers translation with either the definite article "the" or the indefinite article "a". The Tao De Ching has been translated as "The Way" mostly.

Couldn't this be equally translated as A Way?

This possibility has been suggested by philosophers who suggest that Taoist principles once intended as a code of conduct for Kings interested in their own power, had a strategic aspect, based on an appreciation of multiple Ways.

 

[Valjean]

How odd. When I saw the title of your thread My first thought was that these English constructions would be lost on a Roman or Russian, whose languages have no articles

 

[Ozzie]

How odd. When I saw the title of your thread My first thought was that these English constructions would be lost on a Roman or Russian, whose languages have no articles

So would a Russian or Roman understand more the Tao more obliquely?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

That's "way" cool!

I always wondered how much has actually been lost in the English translations of the Tao Te Ching. I wonder if it really matters.

 

[Katzpur]

That's "way" cool!

I always wondered how much has actually been lost in the English translations of the Tao Te Ching. I wonder if it really matters.

It would seem to me that it would matter a lot. Isn't there a big difference between "the Way" and "a Way"? (I have Russian friends who picked up English fairly easily after moving to this country -- except for the use of the definite and indefinite articles which, fifteen years later, they still haven't been able to master). Without the distinction we have in English between "a" and "the," it seems like translation would be very subjective. How do the languages that don't have these words make their meaning clear anyway?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

It would seem to me that it would matter a lot. Isn't there a big difference between "the Way" and "a Way"? (I have Russian friends who picked up English fairly easily after moving to this country -- except for the use of the definite and indefinite articles which, fifteen years later, they still haven't been able to master). Without the distinction we have in English between "a" and "the," it seems like translation would be very subjective. How do the languages that don't have these words make their meaning clear anyway?

Perhaps in a literal translation. With the Tao Te Ching, poetic meaning - which can be highly subjective - can still be gleaned. Without completely understanding much of what I've read, I still find something useful in it every time I pick it up.

 

[Valjean]

It would seem to me that it would matter a lot. Isn't there a big difference between "the Way" and "a Way"? (I have Russian friends who picked up English fairly easily after moving to this country -- except for the use of the definite and indefinite articles which, fifteen years later, they still haven't been able to master). Without the distinction we have in English between "a" and "the," it seems like translation would be very subjective. How do the languages that don't have these words make their meaning clear anyway?

Context.

 

[zenzero]

1. The Way

The Way that can be experienced is not true;
The world that can be constructed is not true.
The Way manifests all that happens and may happen;
The world represents all that exists and may exist.

To experience without intention is to sense the world;
To experience with intention is to anticipate the world.
These two experiences are indistinguishable;
Their construction differs but their effect is the same.

Beyond the gate of experience flows the Way,
Which is ever greater and more subtle than the world.

 

[d.]

i would say 'tao' is better off being ambiguous about article.

I always wondered how much has actually been lost in the English translations of the Tao Te Ching. I wonder if it really matters.

it matter a lot, i think. i've read some translations where i don't even recognise the text. i've been comparing a few translations and it seems to me that every translation is a new text, which of course always reflects the translators' own ideas. i think we're better off forgetting the idea of 'the correct translation / interpretation of the tao te ching'. it's poetry, not a user manual. we make our own sense of it.

a good verbatim translation can be very handy though...and fun.

 

[doppelganger]

every translation is a new text, which of course always reflects the translators' own ideas.

Excellent point, d.

This is also true of every interpretation by every individual reading every translation, as well as ever interpretation by every individual reading the "original."

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

1. The Way

The Way that can be experienced is not true;
The world that can be constructed is not true.
The Way manifests all that happens and may happen;
The world represents all that exists and may exist.

To experience without intention is to sense the world;
To experience with intention is to anticipate the world.
These two experiences are indistinguishable;
Their construction differs but their effect is the same.

Beyond the gate of experience flows the Way,
Which is ever greater and more subtle than the world.

Taking articles out of poem leaves it perfectly understandable to me.
Perhaps we rely too much on articles.

 

[d.]

Excellent point, d.

This is also true of every interpretation by every individual reading every translation, as well as ever interpretation by every individual reading the "original."

i like your new signature line.

 

[doppelganger]

i like your new signature line.

Thanks. It's nice to read your posts again. Your writing has always been some of my favorite at RF.

 

[Francine]

i think we're better off forgetting the idea of 'the correct translation / interpretation of the tao te ching'. it's poetry, not a user manual. we make our own sense of it.

That's the spirit. The urge to find a "true" translation is a Confucian tendency, I think. The Catholic Church issues their deadly dull documents in Latin because it is a dead language with words that don't change their meaning. As long as the Tao Te Ching is newly translated into the latest vernacular, it will remain a soft green shoot rather than a dry brown husk.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Francine,
Its not the language that makes whatever written in it dead.
In fact Tao Te Ching is older than the Bible. The interpretation of Tao Te Ching can be freshly understood by another person and thats the beauty of it.
Each time more hidden meanings may come out.
Love & rgds